The Instigator
db8nrd337
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
debate11
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Resolved:On balance Government Employee Labor Unions have a positive impact on the United States.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,556 times Debate No: 11572
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

db8nrd337

Con

Neg.
Ralph Waldo Emerson was once quoted saying "Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." When we observe labor unions, one can certainly see the beauty. The true question is: Are we seeing the truth or the lies. My interpretation of this quote leads me to negate the resolution: Resolved: On balance, government employee labor unions have a positive impact on the United States. I now offer the following definitions to clarify the round.

A union is defined as an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer.
Positive shall be defined as helpful in the meeting of needs.
Impact is to produce an effect or change in.

Before I continue, I will offer the following observation: In order to remain completely topical, we must assume that "government employee labor unions" refers to public labor forces, those paid by government taxes paid by citizens.

Argument 1.My first argument pertains to the tax increase. First and foremost, we must address the impact labor unions have had on taxpayers. Government salaries and benefits are more times than not paid for by taxes. As these unions call for more and more dues, taxes will severely increase. Ed Lasky writes that "Public-sector unions have amassed great power to extract taxpayer dollars from politicians." US taxpayer dollars have been used for the unions to get whatever they can. To make up for the increase in demand for funding, our government isn't going to mess with the federal budget deficit. Rather, the government is going to increase taxes in states to compensate for the rise of needs. At the point where unions are the cause of a recurring issue with US citizens, it is obviously harming an important aspect to the US more than helping it.
Argument 2.My second argument has to do with deficit spending. After we review the issue with where the taxpayer money IS going, we must see where the taxpayer money isn't going. If unions are taking citizens' tax money, it is not going into solving the issue of our budget deficit. The imbalance between pensions and wages is resulting in higher deficits and, when necessary, cuts in government services. Since most states cannot run deficits, cuts in services or tax increases become inevitable. "The percentage of federal civil servants making more than $100,000 a year jumped from 14 percent to 19 percent during the first year and a half of the recession, according to USA Today. At the beginning of the downturn, the Transportation Department had one person making $170,000 or more a year; now it has 1,690 making that." All of that money going to these unions is not going into solving one of the most important issue on President Obama's mind, the economy. If citizens' money is not going into what is necessary, there will never be a way to solve it. The unions are distracting our funding from an imperative task, which obviously is more of a negative impact than a positive impact.
Argument 3.The third argument is specific to political corruption. Government employee labor unions donate sums of money to political parties that will support them. As we have established, taxpayers money is what funds these unions, so not only is being distracted from a significant cause, it is being put into the pockets of political candidates. Logically, more funding means more advertising, more advertising means more publicity and more times than not, more publicity means more votes. This leads to a never-ending cycle of corruption, a union being put in the pocket of a potential leader. "Unions contributed up to 400 million dollars to Democrats in 2008 and engage in skullduggery to advance their aims." Says the Pew Research Center. What is next for these unions? If this corruption goes on, it is obviously not going to have a positive effect.
Conclusion: In conclusion, these labor unions have not had a positive impact on the US as a whole, and are not going to if they continue the work they are keeping up now. As the negative we are not required to offer alternatives, but we are required to expose the truth and this should be known to all. The main point here, judge, is to prove that the money you pay each year goes to waste by these unions.
debate11

Pro

thanks for the debate!!
Pro
Resolved:On balance Government Employee Labor Unions have a positive impact on the United States.

1. Government employee labor unions have a positive on the US from the past.

Ever since the 1890's the labor unions have worked and impacted for the united states starting from the knights of labor and World War union. Led in the United States was one of the most positive impacted by the public unions run by the governement.

2. PUBLIC EMPLOYEES ARE THE MOST HEAVILY UNIONIZED SEGMENT OF THE LABOR FORCE
Chris Edwards, Director, Tax Policy Studies, Cato Institute, "Public Sector Unions and the Rising Costs of
Employee Compensation," CATO JOURNAL v. 30 n. 1, Winter 2010,
www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf, accessed 3-6-10.
Figure 2 shows BLS data on the shares of public and private employees that are members of unions (BLS
2009a). In 2008, 38.5 percent of all state and local workers were members of unions, which is five times the
union share in the U.S. private sector of 7.6 percent. The share of state and local government workers who are
represented by unions was slightly higher at 42.3 (Some workers who are represented by unions are not union
members). With the inclusion of federal workers, public sector union members totaled 7.8 million in 2008,
which was almost half of the 16.1 million total union members in the nation. Local governments have the largest
group of public sector union members. About one-third of all local government workers are in education, and
about two-thirds of those workers are members of unions. Police and fire departments are also heavily unionized
with union member shares of almost 60 percent (see Farber 2005). Figure 3 shows the union member shares in
the public and private sectors in recent decades. While the private sector share has plummeted, the state and
local shares have remained high at just over 30 percent and 40 percent, respectively. Data on public sector union
membership before the 1980s are sketchy, but it appears that the share rose from less than 15 percent of the state
and local government workforce in the 1950s to the current high levels by the late- 1970s (Freeman 1986: 45).

3.UNION EMPLOYEES ARE COMMITTED TO THE PUBLIC GOOD, ACTUALLY IMPROVE SERVICES
Eddie L. Parks, President, SEND Union, Westerville OH, "Public-Employees Unions Committed to Good of
Society," COLUMBUS DISPATCH, October 20, 2007, npg.
Unions also provide continuity and savings in other programs. For example, we are typically the single most
influential group in limiting health-care cost increases and conducting tough negotiations with medical
providers. Similar roles are played with strategic planning, employee training and pensions. It's worth noting that
being a government employee is a difficult, dangerous and thankless task. Unlike the stereotype of the unskilled
clerk sitting at a desk, most of our union members work at highly skilled, specialized jobs that are often dirty and
dangerous. Nearly half of the state work force, for example, guard prison inmates or care for the severely
mentally and physically disabled. Many of our other members, such as firefighters, scientists, lawyers and
information-technology professionals, work in jobs that demand enormous training, accreditation and
post-graduate diplomas. When risk, skill-level and criticality factors are taken into account, disparities in
public-private average wage and benefit comparisons all but disappear. I don't know of a single publicemployees
union leader who doesn't want to see citizens be more satisfied with government services. We
understand that greater customer and employee satisfaction leads to better workplaces and increased job security.
So here's a better idea: Ditch political leaders who treat government jobs as political plums. Elect those who
truly believe in public service and who are willing to commit to appointing to their administrations only those
managers who are willing to make a career out of serving for the public good.

We'll use the next round as the first rebuttal and will conclude in round 2 thanks again for the debate. I'll provide sources for point one in the next speech
Debate Round No. 1
db8nrd337

Con

In my opponent's first contention, they use the idea of past benefit, however the resolution calls for the net benefit, and not that of the past. As I have shown in my case, these unions are corrupting our government and costing US citizens much money that is not being spent wisely. This contention obviously falls.

In their second contention, they state that public employees are the most heavilly unionized, yet this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Yes, we are talking about unions, but not about public employees vs. private employees, rather unions benefit or cost on the US. Because this is random and off topic, this contention also falls.

In their final contention they talk about unions providing healthcare and other such necesities to the union workers, however, this is a small part of the US. Only 15.4 million workers in America are unionized, a small part of americas workers especially when compared to the net unemployment rate, a number that hanges day by day. Since the final argument of my opponents is not strong enough to support the resolution, their entire case cannot be looked to for facts, only as small portions of fact. My case is the best option for truth as a whole.

Thank You
debate11

Pro

debate11 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
db8nrd337

Con

db8nrd337 forfeited this round.
debate11

Pro

debate11 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
db8nrd337

Con

db8nrd337 forfeited this round.
debate11

Pro

debate11 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Impromtu101 6 years ago
Impromtu101
db8nrd337debate11Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:12 
Vote Placed by debate11 6 years ago
debate11
db8nrd337debate11Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07