The Instigator
Jabuticaba
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Cutiepuffle
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: Pikachu is a superior pokemon to Pachirisu

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jabuticaba
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/31/2014 Category: Games
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,436 times Debate No: 51321
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

Jabuticaba

Pro

Welcome to this debate. This debate will be concerning which pokemon is better, Pikachu or pachirisu. The franchise and the game are both allowed to be used for this debate. You (con) must argue that pachirisu is a better pokemon than pikachu. This debate will be concerning the pokemon in general, not specific ones (ash's pikachu and dawn's pachirisu)

Rules:

1. 1st round you must start with your opening statements. in the last round, you only write "thanks for the debate."*

2. No forfeits

3. no plagiarism

4. bulbapedia and wikipedia are both reliable sources for this debate.

5. no semantics.

6. Follow all the rules above, especially rule number 1

Accepting this debate, you are accepting the rules. Failure to follow the rules will result in a 7 point loss.

Cutiepuffle

Con

Pikachu vs. Arceus

Pachirisu vs. Arceus

Pachirisu with Focus Sash gets hit by Arceus. 1 HP left. Pachirisu uses Super Fang. Arceus loses half it's health.

Pikachu with Light Ball gets hit by Arceus. OHKO.

Pikachu with Focus Sash gets hit by Arceus. 1 HP left. Pikachu uses any move it can use. Barely a sliver down.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Jabuticaba

Pro

After watching your video, I have realised how fake it is. You used a fake odd program which could of been edited to do anything. Arceus didn't even have a level. Because of such, your video, and your entire argument is invalid, and irrelevant. Please keep this in mind voters.

CONTENTION 1: FILLING THE POXEDEX

In both the anime and the game, the proffresor gives the protagnist a pokedex, in exchange that the trainer fills it up. So one of the main points is to fill it up. If you have a Pikachu, you can kill the pokedex more than if you have a pachirisu. With a pachirisu, you can only fill 1 slot. With a Pikachu, you can fill the pokedex with 3 entries. You can breed to get a pichu, or evolve into a raichu. This way, you can easier complete your task now that you can fill 3 sltos with a pikachu, whearas with a pichirisu, you can only fill one. Thus, rendering Pikachu a superior pokemon in order to fulfill the professors commands.



172Pichu.png025Pikachu.png026Raichu.png


Is more entries than,

Pachirisu

CONTENTION 2: POPULARITY/ IMPORTANCE

Now we all know how popular Pikachu is. He is Ash's first pokemon, which travels with him the entire journey. He is the first pokemon red caught. He is the main face of the entire franchise. You can see this in various areas, such as the pokemon tv app, it is a picture of pikachu.



As you can see, Pikachu is very important, and one of the most known pokemon. If you go up to a little girl who isn't interested in the franchise, and ask her to name a pokemon, she is most likely going to say "Pikachu!". What are the odds of her saying pachirisu? Very slim. Pikachu is very important, and therefore a superior pokemon to the franchise.

CONTENTION 3: STATS

Now we obviously know that pachirisu has higher stats, because he is a pokemon that doesn't evolve. His base stats are 405, [1] whereas pikachu's is 300. [2]However since Pikachu can evolve, something pachirisu can't, he obviously can get much higher stats. Raichu's base stats are 485, which is much higher than pachirisu. [3]Since pikachu is capable of evolving, he will be thus be capable of having higher stats.\

====================================================================================

These are my few contentions thus far, in order to save me room for future arguments. Since I have already proved my opponent's previous arguments false, irellevant and fake, I believe I am currently winning. I have proved that in various areas, Pikachu is superior to pachirisu, whereas he mentioned 1 false situation. Please keep such in mind voters.

SOURCES

1.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)
2.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)
3.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)
Cutiepuffle

Con

Fake and odd? This program was made by the people at SMOGON. It's a battle simulator. You said it CAN be edited (which it clearly cannot, if you actually bothered to know about it.), so since when is it a guaranteed fake?
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com...

Check it out.

1: Since when did the Pokedex matter? Simple. It doesn't do much.
2. Pikachu has been everywhere and constantly overplayed. Yes, Pikachu has been shown a lot, but that does not make him important. In the games, he's a forgettable Pokemon because of it's rarity. I went through LeafGreen twice before finding out this thing is in Viridian. Had Ash chosen Charmander, the franchise wouldn't be any different. Pikachu has little effect on the games. It's the mascot position which matters, not Pikachu.

3. Pachirisu's stats are higher. We are talking about Pikachu, so don't bring Raichu into this. Raichu is irrelevant.

Don't assume everything you don't know is wrong. And of course you'd be winning then, because you had last say.
Debate Round No. 2
Jabuticaba

Pro

REFUTATIONS

"Fake and odd? This program was made by the people at SMOGON. It's a battle simulator. You said it CAN be edited (which it clearly cannot, if you actually bothered to know about it.), so since when is it a guaranteed fake?"

Even if in the case this is real, it is wrong, infactual and incorrect. Being made by smogon doesn't make it correct. There are various reasons to which why this is not correct. Firstly, Arceus had no level, whereas Pachirisu and Pikachu were both level 5. Because of such, Arceus can be at any level. We can even assume he is lvl 1, which is the reason of course that both pokemon could do so much damage. Secondly, the turns happen at once, no pokemon goes first. This completly demolishes one of the main stats pokemon have, speed. Since it is all at once, and no pokemon goes first, it is wrong. Anyone could have created it under the name of smogon, considering anyone can join, because of such, the coding can easily be altered in order to make it a specific way. Because of such, how can we, debaters and voters rely on an invalid simulator? I have already explained and proved how this simulator is false, making your argument false.

" Since when did the Pokedex matter? Simple. It doesn't do much."

You obviously know nothing about Pokemon. The point of the game, the anime, the story line and the manga is to fill the pokedex. This is the only way to recieve a pokemon for free. Hence the slogan "Gotta catch 'em all". So since when did the Pokedex matter? Since the beggining of the franchise.

"Pikachu has been everywhere and constantly overplayed. Yes, Pikachu has been shown a lot, but that does not make him important. In the games, he's a forgettable Pokemon because of it's rarity. I went through LeafGreen twice before finding out this thing is in Viridian. Had Ash chosen Charmander, the franchise wouldn't be any different. Pikachu has little effect on the games. It's the mascot position which matters, not Pikachu."

Rarity makes him more wanted. You would know this if you played more. The point of the game is to become the best, and catch them all. Pikachu is rare, therefore the request for one is quite big. It is not difficult to catch him infact. He is just as difficult to find as pachirisu, so your point is invalid. Pikachu can have a huge effect on the game, if your a good trainer that is. People like me are able to use any pokemon, in order to win battles. I was able to take down the fighting gym leader in Pokemon diamond with nothing but a steelix. Pikachu can have the same reaction. Since he is also able to evolve, he can be used for so much mroe than pachirisu.


Raichu is relevant since he is in the pikachu familly. Because Pikachu can evolve, something pachirisu can't and become much stronger than pachirisu, Raichu is completly relevant explaining the superiority of Pikachu over pachirisu.

CONCLUSION OF REFUTATIONS

I have proven that the software my opponent is using is unreliable, and false. I have also proven all of his arguments invalid. My opponent is only considering these 2 pokemon in the game, whereas I am considering both pokemon in both the game, and the entire franchise. I have proven Pikachu is superior in all of these areas.

CONTENTION 4: BETTER CARD

Now the area I have not considered yet is that Pikachu has a much better pokemon card. Pikachu one card, to which it is so rare, it is being sold for 100,000 $. It is extremely rare, only 6 copies were put into circulation. [1] This is amazing. Now pachirisu has no card even close to the rarity, quality and remarkability to Pikachu, making pikachu a superior pokemon in the TCG.

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, through this debate I have proven that Pikachu is a superior Pokemon to pachirisu. My opponent has only considered in the game, which I have proven wrong. I showed all areas, and only explained 1 scenario of a specific pokemon, which is against the rules established in round 1, which should lead to his 7 point loss. Please remember this when voting.

I have proven my point, and con did not argue against it at all. In round 1, he stated 1 example of how pachirisu won a battle. In round 2, he refuted my points, but made no argument to which why pachirisu is better than pikachu. Because of such, my side of the resolution is upheld, and con's side is not.

VOTE PRO!



Cutiepuffle

Con

1. Pachirisu can beat Pikachu.
BEGIN!
(Volt Absorb and Lightningrod prevent electric moves.)


Pikachu (Lightningrod)
vs.
Pachirisu (Volt Absorb)


Turn 1:
Pachirisu used Super Fang. (50% Damage dealt)
Pikachu used Dig


Turn 2:
Pachirisu used Dig.
Pikachu used Dig. (It missed)


Turn 3:
Pachirisu used Dig. It's Super Effective. Pikachu fainted.


It'd go like that.





2. Competitive Usage
Both are in the same tier.


However, Pachirisu does much better in its tier than Pikachu.


And......


Pachirisu does better than Pikachu against stronger Pokemon.


The video was to show this.


By using Super Fang, it can split the HP of legendaries like Arceus in half. Pikachu either gets killed (When with Light Ball/Any other item in existence) or does barely anything, then gets killed. (Focus Sash)


3. Shiny Forms
Shiny Pikachu is slightly darker. Shiny Pachirisu turns Pink. Not only does this make Pachirisu appeal to more audiences, but it is also more original.




REBUTTLE:



Being made by smogon doesn't make it correct. There are various reasons to which why this is not correct. Firstly, Arceus had no level, whereas Pachirisu and Pikachu were both level 5. Because of such, Arceus can be at any level. We can even assume he is lvl 1, which is the reason of course that both pokemon could do so much damage.
He's level 100, which you'd learn if you tried it before calling "FAKKKKKKEEEEEE!" like a Youtube commenter. And even if its at level 1, you saw the damage difference. Also Pikachu did 1% damage, you call that a lot.


Secondly, the turns happen at once, no pokemon goes first. This completly demolishes one of the main stats pokemon have, speed. Since it is all at once, and no pokemon goes first, it is wrong.
Proof you did not watch the entire thing. The first turn happened at once because of a recording issue, but the rest of the turns are fine, you would've noticed this, had you bothered to try it yourself. If you watch the rest, Arceus goes first, so your argument is false.


Anyone could have created it under the name of smogon, considering anyone can join, because of such, the coding can easily be altered in order to make it a specific way.
It's linked on the front page of Smogon. And sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't change the coding of something that's on SOMEONE ELSE'S WEBSITE. If it can be easily altered, please send me a video on how to do that. Bulbapedia and Wikipedia can be easily altered. Why are they valid?


Because of such, how can we, debaters and voters rely on an invalid simulator? I have already explained and proved how this simulator is false, making your argument false.


And I explained how the simulator is true, and proved how you watched only one turn of the video and didn't even bother to try the simulator yourself. How can we debaters and voters, rely on a person who only has seen 5 seconds of footage and expect him to be an expert on the topic?


The point of the game, the anime, the story line and the manga is to fill the pokedex.


1. You never read the manga. The main point is to stop the villains, not complete the Pokedex.
2. How much footage does the Pokedex get each episode? About 10 seconds. That's not long enough to be the main point of an 800+ episode (each one 20 minutes) anime.
3. The Pokedex only mattered in Sinnoh and FR/LG. In order to get the National Dex, yes you must find all Pokemon in the Pokedex, but you didn't even need a Pikachu. Volkner had Raichu, and trainers in the game had Pichu, just see the Pokemon. FR/LG, catch 60. Sounds like a lot, but 60 is less than half of 150. You don't need a Pikachu/Raichu.


This is the only way to recieve a pokemon for free.
What about fossils, Bill's Eevee, Shedinja, Gen 5 monkeys, and even your starters? Are they nonexistent?


I was able to take down the fighting gym leader in Pokemon diamond with nothing but a steelix. Pikachu can have the same reaction. Since he is also able to evolve, he can be used for so much mroe than pachirisu.

Steelix's BST: 510 (200 Defense)
Pikachu's BST: 320 (40 Defense)

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure Bone Rush will destroy Pikachu, unless Pikachu is like Level 100 or something.

Concerning the underlined statement, once again, don't bring Raichu into this. Yes Raichu is stronger than Pachirisu and Pikachu can evolve into it, but again, this is Pikachu vs. Pachirisu, not Raichu vs. Pachirisu. Raichu and Pikachu are different Pokemon. Don't use them interchangeably.

Raichu is relevant since he is in the pikachu family. Because Pikachu can evolve, something pachirisu can't and become much stronger than pachirisu, Raichu is completly relevant explaining the superiority of Pikachu over pachirisu.

You're explaining the superiority of PIKACHU over Pachirisu, not Raichu over Pachirisu. They're different Pokemon. They have different stats, different design, different Pokedex entry. Don't use them interchangeably just because Pachirisu's stats are better.


Because my opponent relied on false assumptions for counters, I believe he is not suited to win.

If he can put corny pictures to win you over, so can I!


herp


YEAH!
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
Also, you had the chance to do rebuttles against my rebuttles while I was denied the chance, and therefore I could not have a chance to prove my simulator was not false and therefore it was unfair.
Posted by Jabuticaba 3 years ago
Jabuticaba
Apology accepted I guess. No big deal, you just lose the debate. I would love to have this debate again, but I am currently jumbled with various debates and don't think I can find the time to debate. Maybe another time.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
I understand now and am sorry. But I would like to continue on a new because your rebuttals are false.
Posted by Jabuticaba 3 years ago
Jabuticaba
How did I break the rule? The point of doing so is so we get an equal amount of rounds. Since I explained the rules and you made a opening statement, you need to say nothing one round so we both get 2 rounds to debate. I said "you" implying you, not me. If this rule applied to me as well, you would have 2 rounds and I would have 1 making it unfair. The rule only applied to you, not me.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
Sorry for triple comments. Computer glitch. You lose 7 points because you broke the rule too.
Posted by Jabuticaba 3 years ago
Jabuticaba
How did you not see the rule? It was HUGE.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
You could message me. But you did not. I did not see your rule. Therefore I believe it is unfair to call me out for that.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
You could message me. But you did not. I did not see your rule. Therefore I believe it is unfair to call me out for that.
Posted by Cutiepuffle 3 years ago
Cutiepuffle
You could message me. But you did not. I did not see your rule. Therefore I believe it is unfair to call me out for that.
Posted by Jabuticaba 3 years ago
Jabuticaba
You have used the last round, which means I win the debate, since you are required not to do such.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by PiercedPanda 3 years ago
PiercedPanda
JabuticabaCutiepuffleTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Because con went against the rules established, he automatically loses this debate. Even without that rule, 7 points would still go to pro. He mentioned why pikachu is better in all areas, not just in the game which con has done. This gives him points for arguments. He get's points for S&G if you check spelling and grammar. He had better conduct, because con did not follow the rules, and accused pro of not reading the manga. Con has never read the manga, because proffesor oak litterally asked red to fill the pokedex since red got bubasaur. Also, he doesn't know anything about the game, because he talks about how you can get starters for free. The only way to get starters is if you agree to fill the pokedex, which every game askes for. He gets points for sources, because he proved con's simulator wrong. Clear win, even without the rules.