The Instigator
TheCategorical
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
SWfiend
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Resolved: Public high school students in the United States ought not be required to pass standardize

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,853 times Debate No: 9457
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (6)
Votes (5)

 

TheCategorical

Pro

the negative is not required to pose a framework. I just need to punch the holes out of my case before the first tournament

Resolved: Public high school students in the United States ought not be required to pass standardized exit exams to graduate
I affirm this resolution.

My value for this round will be Societal Welfare. Societal Welfare is the welfare or moral benefit of the citizens added to the economical, social, moral, and public stability of the society. This value is inherent to the resolution because the resolution explicitly states the United States as the background with a political background about exit exams.

My value criterion for this round will be Efficiency. The more a society is efficient, the more money it has to afford luxuries, therefore increasing the amount of public welfare and political welfare. This value is designed to show how a society should be run to cut losses and gain political and moral background.

O1: I want to make one thing clear in this observation. I have no quarrel with the exit exams. They bring forth no problems as long as they follow a certain guideline. They will not be used to graduate. They serve no purpose as instruments of society to allow their citizens to graduate. As such I will outline how the society can better use these exams to evaluate understanding.

O2: I find that it is rather hard to decide if any test is truly a standardized test. As such I require that the test follow a few guidelines to maintain equity and fairness in the round.
1.The test must be taken to graduate
2.the test must evaluate at least 4 core areas of intelligence. Literary arts, Mathematical arts, scientific arts, Historic knowledge.
3.The test must be standardized, meaning, that it is taken across all of the United States. The same test is provided at the end of the school year.

C1: Lower Class jobs.
Since historic times there have always been jobs that are preformed with little knowledge about the outside world. These are the ignorant jobs of society, formulated for the least intelligent of society. These jobs require little of the knowledge that we knew even back then. A construction worker needs only the knowledge needed to obey and use the tools necessary to complete his task. A restaurant worker needs only to know how to be courteous, diligent, fast, and knowledgeable about the menu. My goal here is not to lessen the worth these jobs for they are the building blocks of society, public works, and the image that foreigners receive. These men and women are as worthy as any member of society. All I point out is that they don't need an education in math or science. They need an education in service, diligence, physical work. The truth is that every job is based on different knowledge. These members of society often drop out of school to work in these jobs. The reason that they drop out of school is exit exams. They have passed everything that has come past them so far. The future artists, construction workers, serving industry workers, manufacturers, politicians, and writers are stopped by that exit exam. The problem is that they don't often need the knowledge that is on that exit exam. It would aid efficiency if these workers were allowed their diplomas just for passing 12th grade.
C2: Alternatives
There are many alternatives to taking an exit exam. The valid public purpose of a diploma is to certify a level of competence to prospective employers and to schools beyond high school having admission standards. However, colleges generally have admissions departments that can demand a variety of tests scores and evaluations to suit their particular purposes. I suppose that, for example, Harvard could manage to select applicants without the benefit of high school diploma standards, because they would invest the effort into evaluating SAT scores, teacher evaluations, recommendations, and examples of the applicants work like essays, and so forth. That makes qualification for employment the most important use of a diploma. And as such there is no need for another standard upon which to judge.
Alternative Counter Plan: I suppose that the exam should still be taken for the purposes of entry into college. The test will not certify whether a participant graduates or not, instead it gives those who want to continue into college to show their knowledge and if in truth certify their diploma to the university. And it gives those who want to work in other fields the chance to fulfill their wish and opt out of taking the exam. Think of it like another SAT. If the students left with this knowledge from school then they should be able to certify their capabilities to get into college. This maximizes the efficiency of the society. It puts the workers where they belong, by integrating them into the working class as soon as possible. This increases the number of happy citizens in the society by maximizing the amount of compatible jobs.
SWfiend

Con

I would like to thank my opponent who posted this debate for the opportunity, and to the readers and voters who took the time out of their day to review it.

I noticed several flaws in my opponent's first observation. He mentions that the tests "bring forth no problems as long as they follow a certain guideline." He is assuming that these tests are given with no guideline to follow whatsoever. What he fails to realize is that these tests are used to measure a student's understanding of the material they are being tested on based off the standards that state has for its test topics (math, English, writing, etc). Another point that my opponent failed to realize is that these tests ARE, in fact, used to graduate, as you can see from the resolution (standardized exit exams). A student must take these to show the state that they are competent enough in the subjects tested, and if so, will be able to contribute to society in a beneficial manner. The mere fact that my opponent either forgot or neglected to inform you all of this information shows a lack of preparation in his argument.

In observation 2, a basic understanding of what the test actually is, a standardized test used to graduate (exit exam) that tests core areas of knowledge, is absent in my opponent's argument. Again, my opponent is assuming that is a useless exam, whereas it is used to show the state in which the student is being tested in that the student in competent enough to graduate and operate in the real world. Also, my opponent's understanding of standardized is flawed, for he believes that means it must be taken across America, whereas it only means it has a set pass/fail level, say 50%, which a student must pass on all tests being administered; you receive a lower score than 50%, you fail. Simple. With both observations, my opponent has neglected to research the test and how it is used in society, showing that he has no understanding of the test, yet he argues to change it.

In my opponent's first contention, my opponent says that many citizens of America who follow careers in construction, public service (waiting) and more only need skills which best service them in their occupation. According to pro's argument, construction workers only need to know how to follow orders and use tools. I find this to be a gross understatement of the knowledge that a construction worker requires. A great understanding of geometry is integral in several fields of construction. Can you imagine your house built by someone who couldn't calculate the length of wood that he or she would need for the slant of your roof in relation to the rest of the house? (For examples on uses of math on a construction site, click the link: http://www.constructionknowledge.net...) The other example that my opponent uses to prove his point is also seriously flawed. As with the construction worker, my opponent assumes that the person only needs remedial, servile skills and intelligence to complete the task at hand (courtesy, diligence, physical stamina), when this is just not the case. A skill which must be demonstrated constantly is the ability to perform basic mathematical equations to calculate customer bills, who is paying what, and how much tip he should probably be receiving. While in the specific examples science is not necessary, my opponent has left out the other aspects of the test that are relevant to these jobs, such as reading and writing. You cannot base your argument to get rid of something based off of two parts of the test when there are so many more being tested. I also want to point out that my opponent assumes that it is the high school dropouts who take these jobs, which is degrading to say the least, and associates the dropping out to the exit exams with no proof whatsoever. As someone who has taken them, I can attest to the fact that they are used to test your basic understanding of the material being tested. He makes it sound like these tests are astronomically impossible! My opponent then goes on to state that the knowledge on the exam is useless, which, if you have ever seen the exam, is a completely ignorant thing to say. Reading, writing and math (on the test in Nevada, we test in math, science, reading and writing, but most other states have more topics on their tests), last time I checked, were important in everyday life. And I'm lost as to how it "aid efficiency" if we just give someone a diploma after their senior year. What if the person has sailed through school on Ds? Do you think that person is qualified to work for a decent company just because he passed school?

In contention 2, my opponent thinks that a diploma is not necessarily required for acceptance into a college, and only the SAT scores matter. Well, first off, as a senior in high school, I know that SAT and ACT scores are very important and that you would want to take a different exam depending on the school you want to go to, but schools will first look for a diploma to show that you have graduated from high school. I can pass the SAT and ACT with flying colors, but if I fail to graduate from high school, I just can't go to college. (Here is the admissions page for UNLV, and I highly recommend the first line: http://www.unlv.edu...)

In the counter plan, my opponent wants the tests to be used as an entry exam into college. As I stated before, the tests are used to see if you can even graduate, much less go to college, plus, we already have tests for that very purpose: SAT and ACT; he even says "another SAT." What's the point? We already have a perfectly good exam to take, so why take another? Also, happiness isn't measured by the amount of compatible jobs. Just because I have one doesn't mean I'm happy, so that makes your argument presumptuous and flawed.

Again, thank you for taking you time out of your day to review this debate, and I urge you vote con.
Debate Round No. 1
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Yoguy-107 7 years ago
Yoguy-107
to the pro
hey, lets start with the value, no impact i dont care about your value unless you specificlly state why i should care about what your trying to achieve. next your observations give your to much ground and limit the negatives that is unfair. justify why these tests should only be taken to graduate. for ct1, you give a very basic example, toughen it up with examples of multiple intelligences or why people want dead end jobs. your ct2 is completely contradicting your observations. if these tests are needed for graduation then there are NO alternatives to the graduation test. this makes null your counter plan and any impact you gain off this.
i propose dropping ct2 and adding more impacts and warrents to ct1. next ALWAYS ADD FRAMEWORK!!!!!!!! if its got a value its LD therefore you need framework.
i mean no offence by this, just a helpful guy thats vice captain of his LD debate squad. i hope you take at least some of my advice, good luck for later in rounds :)
Posted by SWfiend 7 years ago
SWfiend
Are you telling my opponent that or myself?
Posted by Da_King 7 years ago
Da_King
Act and Sat are not exiting exams.
Posted by SWfiend 7 years ago
SWfiend
Haha, wow, I did not like writing that AT ALL!!!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 7 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
By "not required to post a framework"-- I think he might mean you don't have to know LD structures.
Posted by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
I agree with you; however, I'd definitely take this debate for fun. The problem is that I'm not a formal debater so I know absolutely nothing about LD constructs or whatever. Anyway, good luck.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Dingo7 6 years ago
Dingo7
TheCategoricalSWfiendTied
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Vote Placed by TheCategorical 6 years ago
TheCategorical
TheCategoricalSWfiendTied
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Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
TheCategoricalSWfiendTied
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Vote Placed by scottkayla34 7 years ago
scottkayla34
TheCategoricalSWfiendTied
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Vote Placed by aurora1616 7 years ago
aurora1616
TheCategoricalSWfiendTied
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