The Instigator
Macho
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
crazyninja77
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

Resolved: Students should be allowed to choose classes in high school

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
crazyninja77
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,541 times Debate No: 14520
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (6)

 

Macho

Pro

I'm pro for the resolution.
crazyninja77

Con

If this was the case then the students would have a tenancy to pick whatever is easiest for them academically speaking. The ACT scores would plummet, and college attendance would decrease due to the fact that nobody is scoring good enough on their ACT tests. This results in a higher unemployment rate due to the fact that they students who weren't able to attend college will have to find a part-time job somewhere, in order to make a living. If they did manage to find a full time job, the income would still be low. On average a person that attends college make $1,000,000 more in their life time than someone who doesn't attend college.
Debate Round No. 1
Macho

Pro

Think about this if the student is able to choose their class they can go by easier and graduate in classes they want even their core classes.
crazyninja77

Con

That is probably true there, but think about this. Lets just say you have a student that really doesn't like math or science for some strange reason. What is your suggestion there? They will get to pick the classes that they want, so they are probably not going to choose to go to math or science. If this occurs then that student will be greatly hindered in the educational world. He or she will be so far behind in these areas, that finding any kind of a good career or a good college is very close to impossible.
Debate Round No. 2
Macho

Pro

But if it's their core classes they can't if they have electives they can choose their classes and not have to be behins on their core classes.
crazyninja77

Con

This may be true, however, you still cannot get around the fact that if all over the students in high school were allowed to pick their own classes, then the student to teacher ratio would be in extreme proportions. Some classes would have a very large amount of student to only one teacher, while other classes would have hardly any students in them. Undoubtedly, the very enjoyable, and extremely educational course of Algebra would be most likely ignored, and not taken. I know of several people that struggle with this class, and wish that they didn't have to take it. It is good for the students to be under subjection to an authority, and to have to go to whatever classes they are assigned to go to. The students are not mature enough to pick their own classes, or they would be doing that already. That time will come for them soon enough, when they get out of high school, and get the privilege to go to college.
Debate Round No. 3
Macho

Pro

Though students are able to choose classes they can go by more smoothly and can get past their core classes and go to college if they so choose. This depends on the student though, if it was a a person who doesnt care abut high school then that person wont pass so easy but if it was a person that want to go to college has that preivledge.
crazyninja77

Con

First of all, it's privilege not preivledge, you spelled it wrong. My opponent is obviously stuck on the idea of core classes, which are not bad, but let's be honest, if the students get to choose their own classes, do you honestly think that they will choose to take the core classes, or do you think that they would much rather take the easy way out, and just do all easy, simple electives that require less of their time? It really is a no-brainier, people will choose what is the easiest before they choose the hard things, every time. The only reason somebody would choose the harder things over the easier things, is if they knew that they would be rewarded with some kind of a money reward, or something if they choose to take the harder ones over the easier ones. However since there may be a few students who like their harder, more strenuous core classes that require more time, homework, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Lets make a hypothetical situation. Let's say that you have a school with 2,000 students in it, and you are the principle, and you have hired on 35 teachers. That leaves you with a decent student-teacher ratio of about 57 to 58 students per teacher. That's not that bad of a ratio. Let's say that each one of your teachers earns about $23,000 per year. That's not really that good of a salary, compared to the average national annual income. If your school was a public school, that means that the school would be using $805,000 every year, just to pay the teachers!! That doesn't include the costs for utilities, janitors, security, cooks, etc.. Now lets say that half-way through the year, you decide that you are going to let the students choose their own classes, after you get this approved by the Department of Education. All of the students, except for a small group of about 500 of them decide that they are going to take everything but Algebra. Now your student to teacher ratio has more than doubled, while your student to teacher ratio for algebra has decreased dramatically. What do you do?? Do you try and hire more teachers to accommodate for the unbalanced ratios?? This would end up costing the government at least another $400,000 dollars, just so the students could be happy, and choose their own classes.
To me it sounds pretty ridiculous for the students to be able to choose their own classes, considering the fact that, ultimately, it would make our taxes go up, in order to try to manage the new costs of all the extra teachers that would have to be hired on, just to make the ratio of students to teacher balanced.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by JohnGotti 3 years ago
JohnGotti
debate.org really went downhill..back in like 09 i remember having to take the time to read a debate for atleast half an hour and look at the evidence presented by both sides and make a judgement based on how well they debated. ive been back for a week, looked at roughly 10 debates and atleast 8/10 are completely 1 sided, in that 1 side actually brings in evidence and makes a compelling argument while the other is either bull shitting their entire thing for fun or just stating an opinion.

thats wat im sayin dog.
Posted by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
The vote bombing for Con is inexcusable. Con should change his votebomb for himself to Tied. No references were used, so awarding references to Con by anyone is unjustified.

Pro should have won, but didn't say enough to make his case. He should have made it clear at the outset that there should be a required core curriculum plus electives. It took a while to figure out that is what he was talking about. Moreover, Con's objections about algebra can be answered by saying that a student can take either business math or academic math -- or that algebra can be in the core.

The arguments are there, but were not voiced.
Posted by Grape 3 years ago
Grape
RFD:

Agreed Before/After - Pro. Students should be allowed so choose at least some classes. Nothing says they must choose all classes.

Conduct - Pro. Con voted all 7 points to himself.

Spelling and Grammar - Con. Pro had numerous errors.

Arguments - Con. Pro barely made any arguments.

Sources - Tied. No sources in the debate.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Cobo 3 years ago
Cobo
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Atheism 3 years ago
Atheism
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Vote Placed by jimmye 3 years ago
jimmye
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Vote Placed by Grape 3 years ago
Grape
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Vote Placed by crazyninja77 3 years ago
crazyninja77
Machocrazyninja77Tied
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Total points awarded:07