The Instigator
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
ScarletGhost4396
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: The Death Penalty be abolished

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 596 times Debate No: 22365
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

16kadams

Con

Our first debate (well our last one) had an FF. I want a debate where neither of us FF/concede rounds (like all of ours have :P).

Rules:

Pro can either accept only first round (argue 1-3) or argue his case this round with a short closing 4th round.
No FF's
No semantics with resolutions
no trolling

=Definitions=

"Capital punishment, the death penalty, or execution is a legal process whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime. [murder]"
http://en.wikipedia.org...
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

Yeah, real sorry about that last debate. I had a lot of stuff to deal with. Anyways, I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
16kadams

Con

I am happy he accepted :)

C1: Deterrence

Before one can talk about the DP, one must look at the most controversial part of the DP: Deterrence. Before I get into raw facts I will talk about a simple thing: Deterrence theory.

Deterrence theory is pretty straight forward, it is that if you increase the penalties for something people will be less likely to do the thing with punishments. [1] It's a lovely thing isn't it? A simple and logical theory easy to grasp. The thing people fear most is death. Death, to some people, means everything ends. To others, you may go to eternal torture (Assuming we are hanging murderers that are christian). The thing people ear most is death, as this is a bigger penalty according to theory people should be hesitant to murder if the DP is in place.

---> Academic studies

This is very interesting, something I seldom thought of. When I first became pro DP I just used the philosophy above, and no research. But this firmly proves my point. Many series of academic studies show the DP deters crime [murder]. [2] Many people, the makers of this study, actually claim there is enough data and correlation to say there is an inherit deterrent effect to the DP. [2] The heritage foundation reports similar reports, from many economic professors and academic schools of thought, proving the DP deters crime and saves lives. [3] NPR shows a study saying each usage of the DP may even lead to 70 people saved! [4] Is this true? Maybe maybe not. But according to all of these statistics the DP has an inherit deterrent effect.

---> Lowe's findings

The reason I exclude Westley Lowe's findings (although he uses similar numbers) is because he is a book writer. Not making him less credible as he uses sourced information, but I wouldn't classify him in the academic findings above. Lowe finds that 3-18 murders are saved by usage of the DP. [5] He also finds historical linkages with deterrence from the DP in English occupied India. [5] He also finds when the moratorium of the DP occurred murder rates increased a significant amount. [5] He provides a nifty graph:



source 5


C2: Former convicts return to crime


Certian stats actually allow people on life sentenes parole in 3 years, others never. [6] The point is they sometimes get to go free. Now, I will explain how this is a problem.

There is no info on murder (on this study), but 2% of rapists commit the crime after released, 70% of robbers commit crimes once released. [7] Life sentces also usually decay over time, and the people are let out onto parole. [8] The problem with this is they commit the same crime after they are let out! [8]

Also 5% of death row inmates killed people in jail or during the escape, or if they are let out. [9] This means speadig up execution may be ideal, and putting them on life sentences means they now can kill more people while escaping/other inmates.

vote CON





[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[3] http://www.heritage.org...
[4] http://www.npr.org...
[5] http://www.wesleylowe.com...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[7] http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...
[8] http://www.wesleylowe.com...
[9] http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

I'm unfortunately going to have to forfeit this round. I've had absolutely no time to create an argument.
Debate Round No. 2
16kadams

Con

That's fine. :) Extend arguments for now. I ask for conduct.
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

ScarletGhost4396 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
16kadams

Con

"Our first debate (well our last one) had an FF. I want a debate where neither of us FF/concede rounds (like all of ours have :P)." round 1

"Rules:

Pro can either accept only first round (argue 1-3) or argue his case this round with a short closing 4th round.
No FF's
No semantics with resolutions
no trolling" - round 1

my opponent therefore concedes the debate by breach of rules, vote con.
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

ScarletGhost4396 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
you broke a rule! :(
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
never mind
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
would it be ok if I needed to post sources on an external debate?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Koopin 2 years ago
Koopin
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: 16kadams mama = hotty.
Vote Placed by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Full FF
Vote Placed by Maikuru 2 years ago
Maikuru
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit by Pro.