The Instigator
lannan13
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
PM1066
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Resolved: The Storm Troopers were given the orders to not kill the main characters in Star Wars.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
PM1066
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 459 times Debate No: 72524
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

lannan13

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent ahead of time for accepting this Conspiracy theory debate. This debate is about whether or not the Storm Troopers for the Galatic Empire were given the orders to NOT kill the main characters, Luke, Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Chewbaca. This theory is only applicable to Episodes 4 through 6.

Rules
First Round is acceptance.
Second Round is arguments, no rebuttals.
Third Round is rebuttals.
Forth Round is rebuttals and conclusion.
No new arguments are to be permitted in the forth round.
No profanities.
Wikipeadia will not be used as a source.
The debate MUST be Cannon. (No fanfics permitted)
Only the Movies are the only applicable sourcin.
72 hours response time.
8,000 character limit.

If any of these points are violated you will forfeit all seven points to your opponent.
PM1066

Con

Debate accepted with the prior agreement to include other Cannon resources such as the Clone Wars Animated Series.
Debate Round No. 1
lannan13

Pro

We agreed mutually to skip round 2.
PM1066

Con

Skipping round two as agreed in the comments.
Debate Round No. 2
lannan13

Pro

lannan13 forfeited this round.
PM1066

Con

I am making this post because by the Instigator's own rules, forfeiting a round results in all 7 points going to myself. While my opponent has forfeited this debate, I still feel it is incumbent upon me to present an argument.

This debate is predicated upon a simple premise: there is no way that such highly trained and disciplined soldiers as the Star Wars Storm Troopers could possibly have been so incompetent or frankly have missed so many times as seen in all 3 movies. Their lack of marksmanship is truly breathtaking; the only time Storm Troopers appear to be effective at all in battle are in such scenarios as the mass battle on the planet Hoth, where they had the advantage of battling Rebel troopers in fixed trenches and overwhelming technological and firepower superiority courtesy of the AT-AT walkers. Even there, they suffered losses in spite of having weaponry that was impervious to Rebel firepower. As a marksman using modern earthly weapons, the inability of your average Storm Trooper to point a blaster with any degree of accuracy is clearly beyond debate; it has earned the term "Storm Trooper effect". So now we are left with why are they so terrible at the basic job of infantry? My opponent in this debate is left for the unenviable task of proving perhaps not beyond a reasonable doubt, but at least to some degree of plausibility that these bumbling bad shot boobs were given direct orders by their superiors to not kill these 4 main characters. My position is based upon the continuity of the Star Wars universe demonstrating that this poor marksmanship is indeed not only reasonable based upon other factors, but is completely to be expected.

To get to this abysmal state of affairs as represented in the Episode 4 through 6 movies, one must first understand the genesis of the Storm Troopers. Around the time of the events of The Phantom Menace, what was to become the Clone army in service of the Republic was created. Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas engaged the cloning masters on the planet Kamino to create super soldiers. It had become clear by this time that the security of the Republic required more than the Jedi Knights, and a trained military force would be needed in the near future. The master model for this Clone army was an individual by the name of Jango Fett, a Mandalorean bounty hunter and perhaps one of the fiercest warriors of his time. Mandalorean's were well-known for their ability, despite not being Force sensitive, of utilizing their ingenuity, fighting tactics, sharply honed skills, and certain technical innovations built into their characteristic armor, of being able to fight and kill Jedi Knights on nearly equal terms. As part of the Sith the grand scheme to wipe out the Jedi, using a model for the Clone army coming from generations of Jedi killers was ideal. Jango Fett, as seen in the movie Attack of the Clones (AOTC), was more than capable of fending off Obi-Wan Kenobi in single combat. The results of the Kaminoan cloner work was the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), which came to the rescue of the Jedi Knights during the First Battle of Geonosis. Jango Fett ultimately met his demise in that same battle at the light saber of Mace Windu, one of the most powerful Jedi of his time. Prior to his death, the cloners of Kamino had gathered a substantial amount of his genetic material in order to continue the production of the Clone army.

This history is significant. In the First Battle of Geonosis, the GAR was extremely effective, orderly, disciplined, and most importantly for this debate excellent shots. They were not only able to pick off the flying insectoid inhabitants of Geonosis midair with well-aimed blaster shots, they were able to wreak significant havoc on the escaping Confederacy forces. In a standard line formation, they were more than a match for the opposing battle droid army.
If we fast-forward to the timeframe of Revenge of the Sith, there is a subtle shift in the quality of the Clone Troopers. During the execution of Order 66, they fail in the extermination of several Jedi to include Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Unless they are within 10 paces, and completely surrounding and massively outnumbering a Jedi Knight whose back is turned, there is not an instance where they appear to have killed a Jedi with simple blaster fire. In the assault upon the Jedi Temple, we see a Jedi trainee, still too young to be a Padawan learner successfully fend off and kill a large number of Lord Vader"s "elite" troopers. They are not the incompetent boobs we see in the later movies, but they are well on their way to that slow decline and devolution in capability.

There is a clear explanation for even the subtle decreasing capability over the short time span of the Clone Wars. As catalogued in several episodes of the Clone Wars animated series, viable genetic material was essential for continued clone production. Specifically in the 3rd season premiere episodes, "Clone Cadets" and "ARC Troopers", viable genetic material was so essential that the Confederacy launched a massive assault against the planet Kamino for the sole purpose of stealing the remaining Jango Fett DNA. While this assault failed it did highlight that clone production was not as simple as producing a consistent can of Coca-Cola. Genetic malformations and defects were not uncommon. Defective clones were relegated to support services versus frontline duty, as seen with the hunchback clone "99", also in the season 3 premiere episodes. This clearly indicates that the Kaminoan process for clone production was not a perfect Xerox of Jango Fett; dealing with genetic material was not simple nor fully repeatable. Given that at the outset of the Clone Wars further access to fresh Jango Fett genetic material became simply impossible owing to him being permanently 8 inches shorter, it follows that over time as a genetic lines started to have issues or diversions, more of his genetic material would have to be used to maintain the quality of the clones. As later seen in the season 6 episode "Conspiracy" and following story arc, there is the first failure of a clone where one prematurely executes Order 66. This nearly reveals the entire Sith plot to build an army of trained Jedi killers, and is yet again indicative of difficulties in maintaining production quality across millions of clones.

Another clear indicator of qualitative clone decline can be seen upon the bridges of the Star Destroyers. During the Clone War period, Republic Star Destroyers routinely had clone officers serving on the bridge. By the time of Episode 4 and on, all of the Imperial officers serving on the bridge of Imperial Star Destroyers were non-clones. None of the senior officers in the staff meeting with Grand Moff Tarkin on the first Death Star were clones either. Since clone officers could achieve fairly high rank, a reasonable explanation is that they simply weren't intellectually qualified in that timeframe to operate a massive starship, or that there weren't enough quote "good" clones to spare manning the bridge. This also points to a decline in the ability of the clones to perform higher functioning duties let alone point a blaster in a consistent direction.

Consider now that by the time of Episodes 4 through 6 multiple generations of clones have been generated without the benefit of fresh Jango DNA. These copies of copies of copies continue to degrade in quality over time much like editing a JPEG repeatedly in Photoshop introduces random noise and ultimately a significantly degraded picture. While not a perfect analogy, it does give a viable explanation for why Storm Troopers couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from less than 5 feet away. It's a miracle at all they were ever able to wing or capture a Jedi neophyte, a plucky Princess, a Wookie warrior or a hardened smuggler. There is no grand conspiracy here; merely the degenerative effects of inbreeding and poor quality
Debate Round No. 3
lannan13

Pro

I am unable to debate. I appologies to my opponent for wasting his time.
PM1066

Con

Pro has forfeited this debate. I ask voters to at least review my debating methodology, and comment on it with their votes.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by PM1066 1 year ago
PM1066
My opponent, by their own rules, has elected to forfeit all 7 points to me in this debate. This is very disappointing, as this was a fun topic. I have given my opponent one more chance to participate in his own rules allowed; I'm now quite sure I would not have been shown the same courtesy.

What is further disturbing is after the rather snarky comment "I've been around for three years on the site", and my willingness to mutually forfeit the 2nd round to keep this topic going, is the failure to participate in the 3rd round. We all have personal issues, but when you start a topic, as you well know, there is at least the obligation of common courtesy and respect to communicate with your opponent if you are unable to fulfill your end of the debate. It is quite clear lannan13 has been very active on the site the last couple days, posting to profiles, posting in the forums, yet the simple common courtesy of sending me a message to back out of this debate or walk away from it was not done.

Thanks for wasting my time.

I expected as much from people who joined only 5 days ago, not from a "been around for three years on the site" person. If you could take the time to post to such fascinating topics as "Random Boners", you could have at least sent me a note.
Posted by ClashnBoom 1 year ago
ClashnBoom
@Lanman13 Is that why you and Lee001 wanted to leave?
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I know this as I've been around for three years on the site. I'm just going through some personal issues.
Posted by PM1066 1 year ago
PM1066
From tips for a better debate:

"Don't Ever Forfeit a Round

Even if you don't have time to leave a full response, DO NOT forfeit a round. Forfeiting a round destroys your credibility and makes it less likely that voters will vote for you. If you can't post a full response, write as much as you can, and leave a simple sentence stating that you are unable to post a full argument and will return for the next round. This lets your opponent know that you still wish to participate in the debate and allows them to elaborate their argument."

Lets agree to skip round 2 mutually (just enter something to avoid the forfeit), then catch it in round 3. Fair enough? I'll also enter nothing for round 2.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I do not think I will be able to make my next round.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I will allow it.
Posted by PM1066 1 year ago
PM1066
Problem--The Clone Wars animated series is considered Cannon in the Star Wars universe, as is the The newer Rebels animated series. Restricting to just the movies from ANH to ROTJ will constrain the argument that I can make to the point that there can be no con argument.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
lannan13PM1066Tied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by bsh1 1 year ago
bsh1
lannan13PM1066Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit