Resolved: The United States Federal Government should ban the Confederate Flag in all 50 states.
Debate Rounds (4)
I would like to thank Forever23 for accepting this debate ahead of time. This debate is about the USFG and the total banning of the Confederate Flag.
First round rules and definitions by Con, Opening arguments by Pro.
Second Round Opening arguments by Con, no rebuttals.
Pro refutes Con's arguments.Third Round Con's rebuttals, Pro's rebuttals and Conclusion.
Forth Round Con's rebuttals and conclusion. Pro waives the round.
In the Forth Round Pro shall only type, "No round as agree upon."
If anything but the above is written in Round 4 then Pro forfeits the entire debate.
Sources may be placed in the comments section if need-be.
No semantics, the definitions provided are the ones to be used throughout the debate.
The United States Federal Government is established by the US Constitution. The Federal Government shares sovereignty over the United Sates with the individual governments of the States of US. The Federal government has three branches: i) the legislature, which is the US Congress, ii) Executive, comprised of the President and Vice president of the US and iii) Judiciary. The US Constitution prescribes a system of separation of powers and ‘checks and balances’ for the smooth functioning of all the three branches of the Federal Government. The US Constitution limits the powers of the Federal Government to the powers assigned to it; all powers not expressly assigned to the Federal Government are reserved to the States or to the people. (http://definitions.uslegal.com...)
bar- toprohibit,forbid,orbar;interdict: (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
Ladies, gentlemen, my name is Forever23 and I am here upon this platform to bring forth my premise which is that the Confederate Flag should be banned in all 50 states.
My ensuing roadmap will include divulging 2 of my points into the debate.
My first assertion is that allowing public displays of confederate symbols incites racists. When someone sees the Confederate Flag, they think of racism, oppression and rebellion against freedom, against contemporary ideals of equality and human rights in the USA. The confederacy was a nation which loved the institution of slavery, seceded the United states which is an act of treason and was responsible for the deaths of Americans. Hanging this flag on public property, flying it next to the white house shows that the USA supports all of these. It shows that the USA is a country that is against freedom and against human rights. A poll conducted by CNN shows that only 11% of African Americans saw the flag as sign of pride and 75% viewed it as a symbol of racism. This shows the amount of racism and prejudice that still occurs in the country. In short, the flag merely symbolize a time when slavery and racism were acceptable in society. That is no longer the case so it should not be allowed. Flag promotes the supremacy and symbolize racism against African Americans. It is offensive to many U.S. citizens and has a little relevance in 2015 as historical symbol.
My second assertion is allowing the confederate symbol in public spaces is akin to allowing the symbol of an enemy
nation. We should not be waving an enemy"s flag, no matter the case. Imagine the Nazi flag flying in Trenton. If we are not to ban confederate symbols we might as well forget the idea of banning Facist or Nazi symbols. The confederate states of America was an illegitimate treasonistic criminal state waging war against the united states. According to civilwar.org, Approximately 620,000 soldiers died from combat, accident, starvation, and disease during the Civil War. This number comes from an 1889 study of the war performed by William F. Fox and Thomas Leonard Livermore. Both men fought for the Union. Their estimate is derived from an exhaustive study of the combat and casualty records generated by the armies over five years of fighting. A recent study puts the number of dead as high as 850,000. This flag is a flag of the enemies of the American people. The opposition may state we are to allow the confederate symbol on the premise that it is not a symbol which represents the death of thousands of Americans but as a symbol of southern heritage is as absurd a notion as claiming the ISIS, Al-Queda and Hamas flags are not symbols of radical fringe Islamic terrorism but rather symbol to represent the heritage of all Muslims. The fact of the matter is that the confederate states of America was an anti Americanistic nation which was an enemy of the USA.
Thank you, please vote for the proposition side of this debate.
I thank my opponent for accepting this debate. In this round I shall show that this flag should not be banned through a philosophical and political means.
Contention 1: Unity and flags
There's a great deal of contraversy in the flag regarding racism and other things. One key thing we have to look at is that of Unity. Paul Tillich has shown when writting about the symbol of flags he shown that it represents a group of people or an area as a whole.  In this it is representing the South as a whole. Though not the reigns of slavery and Secession, but the southern society and culture. It's banning will be an attempt to reduce and destroy the people of the South's very livelihood. For this instance let's take the State flag for instance. Why do states actually have flags? They have the nation's flag, but under this very train of thinking we should also get rid of state flags. So what do the State flags represent that the National flag does not? Culture. Each state, region, and area across the nation has different culture and histories than others. The culture in New England isn't the same as the South and California's not the same as Michigan. Each state has a different culture and the banning of the Confederate flag would do the same as an elimination from a state's flag. One can see that the culture is key to a nation as if one is to forget their history and culture then they are to be integrated into a system like sheep heading to the slaughter. 
Examples of this can be seen in US history, after California revolted from Mexico it created the Bear Flag Republic. It still bears that flag today. Shall this flag be banned because of the fact that it offends Mexicans who they revolted against? The answer is a simple no. Even if they are offensive to some people these flags have historical and culture is their importance and the ability to fly them must not be infringed upon as it would be a trampling of their history and culture. This is something that many dystopian novelists have written about and they have all shown that once the symbol of unity and culture is destroyed then it would be easy to enslave a population. In order to prevent this we need to keep this flag.
Contention 2: Free Speach
When one thinks of the Confederate Flag today when using the Liberal mindset they see it as offensive and even possibly hateful. Whether you believe it or not we have had a Supreme Court Case on this matter. Everyone here may not know who Fred Phelps is, but they do know his church, the Westboro Baptist Church. In the Supreme Court Case Synder V Phelps, Phelps was sued due to his protests attacking the military and homosexuals. The Supreme Court ruled an 8-1 favor of Phelps. Cheif Justice Roberts, a known Moderate, wrote this as the assenting statement, "What Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, is entitled to 'special protection' under the First Amendment and that protection cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was outrageous."  We can see here that the Supreme Court has ruled and protected the hate speech thatwas provided by the Phelps via their picketting. To relate the Flag back to the freedom of speech we have to look at the Supreme Court Case Texas V Johnson. Not only did they ruled for the case of Johnson being able to burn the flag through the first Amendment, but Justice Roberts wrote this, "Though symbols often are what we ourselves make of them, the flag is constant in expressing beliefs Americans share, beliefs in law and peace and that freedom which sustains the human spirit. The case here today forces recognition of the costs to which those beliefs commit us. It is poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt."  Not only does this re-inforce my point in my last round it shows that doing so is protected by our Constitution and outlawing this flag would not only destroy culture and the very fabric of soceity, but it will erode away at our Constitutional rights making us slaves to our government.
3. Geidner, Chris (2011-03-02). "Supreme Court Upholds Westboro Baptist Church Members' Right to Picket Funerals". Metro Weekly.
My ensuing roadmap will include repudiating my opponents points.
The cons first assertion was that this flag represents unity. He went over the fact that this flag represented southern pride. However, these claims are only used to soften the true meaning of this flag. I am talking about the fact that it represents oppression, racism and slavery. Currently, this flag is used by racist group which still hold a grudge against African Americans. The point of unity is only a thin veil to cover up this flags true meaning. Proponents like to romanticize the meaning of the rebel flag, claiming it represents Southern culture and heritage, when I believe the southern United States is so much more than the Confederacy. How dare we belittle the rich history of the South with a flag solely designed to exemplify white supremacy. Where is the pride in subjugating entire races of people? Where is the pride in dividing a nation? Where is the pride in numbing ourselves to the idea that human beings could be enslaved, denied basic fundamental rights and disrespected in almost every aspect of their being? According to easternprogress.com, the Ku Klux Klan also uses the rebel flag heavily in their rallies and propaganda, which should be enough to deem it a racist symbol. Interestingly enough, Neo-Nazis in Europe area are not allowed to display the swastika, so they replaced it with the Confederate flag, thus again proving its intent to intimidate and divide. Therefore, this flag is one that brings racist groups together.
The oppositions second assertion was that we must allow the flag to be because of the freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech states that it is fine to express yourself as long as it is not violent or offensive to others. The Confederate Flag is offensive to African Americans and many other people and races. Many people even commit violent acts while holding this flag. According to washingtonpost, Dylann Roof, who police say opened fire and killed nine people during a prayer meeting at a historic African American church here, was arrested Thursday, more than 13 hours after the chilling attack.Roof, a 21-year-old high-school dropout from Eastover, S.C., was taken into custody in North Carolina not long after law enforcement officials identified him as the sole suspect in the Wednesday night massacre, the deadliest attack on a place of worship in the United States in 24 years.The oldest victim was 87; the youngest was 26. They included a library manager, a track and field coach and a state senator, Clementa Pinckney, who also served as senior pastor at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, where the shooting occurred. Federal law enforcement officials said Roof, who is white, declared his hatred for black people before opening fire, and the U.S. Justice Department has said it is investigating the attack as a hate crime. While doing this, Roof was holding a Confederate Flag. A statistic by CNN states that 72% of Northern African Americans disapprove of this flag. 75% of Southern African Americans disapprove of the flag. Therefore, since the flag is offending those of different races, it should be
Thank you. Please vote for the opposition team.
I thank my opponent for such a speedy response and today I will be refuting my opponent's Opening arguments while I will end up refute my opponent's R2 in my final round.
Contention 1: CSA Flag is Racist
My opponent comes in and immidiately slams the Confederate Flag stating that it's racist and people think it's racist. Though these things are simply false when we are all biased. Here we have to look at it through John Rawls Veil of Ignorance. Here one must look through Rawl's Veil of Ignorance. In order to do that one's creed, race, sex, religion, political views, and generation does not matter. This in in order to eliminate bias from the viewer in order to view his two principles of Difference and Equality. The Equality Principle is that the greatest extent of Liberty for everyone. The other states that it must benefit everyone, including the least advantaged, must be open to everyone, and your enemy chooses your position in that society or scenario.  Under this we get rid of all of these things and we can see that all there is is the individual's right to fly a flag or even more simply a piece of cloth with a pattern on it. At this point one can see that under the Equality Prinicple everyone can be able to fly ANY flag of their choice. Now this can be any flag from the LBGT to the Soviet Flag. Under this it meets the Equality Prinicple as under this we are giving everyone the greatest amount of liberty possible while my opposition would reduce this violating the Equality Prinicple which is something that she even pushes. Now for the Difference Principle. With this great amount of speech we can see that it's extention can be used as a key for the furtherment of a free soceity. If we take this away it begins to take us down the Road to Serfdom and we will all just be slaves to an omnipotent government. This is something that benefits everyone by giving everyone the ability to express themselves. Remember that this debate is a total ban, not just a public ban. This means that people will also lose property rights by not being able to own a flag. Under my argument we can see that this benefits everyone and under this soceity even if your enemy gets to choose your place the soceity that I have described is a better place to live and your enemy wouldn't be able to do much while the soceity that my opponent is attempting to build is way more oppressive. We can see here that with the Philosophy of John Rawls this is an ethical practice when we rid ourselves of the bias that soceity insumes we get the real lense and why the status quo is the correct way to go while if we go down my opponent's path we will be worse off and we will be having our Constitutional Rights stripped away.
Contention 2: CSA Flag, the flag of the enemy.
My opponent calls the Confederate Flag a symbol of the enemy, because people died for it, but if the CSA flag stands for Racism, slavery, etc... Then the US flag deserve the same amount of blame. The reason being this can be anything from the Union still having slavery in the boarder states. Even when Lincoln passed the Declaration Proclamation many of the Northerns deserted as they didn't want to free the slaves.  Or how Lincoln oppressed the freedom of the press or multiple other crimes that Lincoln committed. Another key thing is we could go through history and see how evil the American flag is. From the War on the Native Americans, a phony war against Mexico, are massacring of the Phillipeanos, internment of the Japanese, the Atomic Bombings, or even any of the torturing in Gitmo. There are tons of things that demonize America and if you think that the CSA flag is bad due to the Secession then you better look in the mirror and take a glimpse of the vices of the American Flag. The fact is simply that there is no double standard and the simple fact is that the current US flag is worse than the CSA flag. Also remember that this debate is about a total ban, so with that said this entire contention is practically pointless and must be discarded as such.
2. ( http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org...)
Since I already refuted my opponents 2 points in Round 2, I would just like to weight the debate for you.
The first argument the prop brought up was that the Confederacy incited racism. The ideals of the Confederacy revolved around slavery, racism and inequality. The Confederacy was the model of a terrible, unequal nation. Since right now, we are trying to have a country in where there is no supremacy among nations, this flag is not fit to be. Now, the Ku Klux Clan and the neo-Nazis use this flag as a symbol of their hate towards others. It is unacceptable to allow for the state sponsored flying of a flag used to suppress citizens. This flag which represented and is currently in connotation with the Confederacy should indeed be banned. Forever, that flag will be remembered as a smear and as the hypocrisy of America. We are blessed to live in a nation which stands for equality. As we have seen, the advancement liberal social change has proven to be inevitable, weather it was women suffrage or homosexual rights this country moves toward the notion that all men were created equal. In fact the highest court in the land holds the motto "Equal Under Law". That is this country, but the CAS did not believe in this they wanted equality for the few and suppression for the rest. while you may be sold on the fact that the Confederate flag represents freedom of speech and states rights, those rights were to have slaves. Which brings me back to my point this country is based around the notion that we are equal and we should not fly a flag, whether is meant or has adopted the meaning of inequality. Ladies and gentleman, I do not support the limitation of speech but I support the principles of this country and the notion that equality is what makes this country strong. Therefore, we should not allow for the institutionalized racism brought forth by the flying of this flag.
Clearly, from my previous speeches, and from this one, you were able to see how all of my opponents arguments did not apply to the confederate flag. You have seen that the notion of the freedom of speech has been easily refuted when we stated that the free speech applies only to the act of non violence and offense. The flag may offend African Americans. And you have also seen that the notion that the flag meant unity was only a thin veil to cover the true meaning of this flag since the ideals of this country did not symbolize freedom. They symbolized slavery.
What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer: a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade, and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy " a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices, more shocking and bloody, than are the people of these United States, at this very hour.
Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the old world, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival.
Thank you. Please vote for the proposition
With this being the finial round of the debate I will address my opening arguments and then move on to refute my opponent's previous round to show you how I won this debate.
Contention 1: Unity and Flags
My opponent gives the stereotypical anti-Confederate flag argument here arguing that it is racist and should be banned since people use it for bad things. Let's take this argument for example. Do you realize how many things we would have to get rid of for it being "racist" or "offensive." The Westboro Baptist Church is still permitted to protest and everyone knows how they were able to do what they do. What of the Black Panthers Black Nationalist Group. Their flag is still permitted as well as much of their practices outside of white lynches. What about the USSR flag, or the Ottoman Empire's flag after the attrocities they've committed from the Ukrainian Genocide to the Armeanian Genocide. Why aren't they banned? They promotted racist values and committed horrible acts against humanity. Then why can we still buy then and fly them? The answer is very simple in this debate as this is just another attempt by the Left to go and demonize the South not for the flag, but for the massive Republican population. Even with that said none of the reasons my opponent listed are grounds for a banning of the flag as she hasn't argued Solvency nor Inherency in this debate and she cannot win this debate without those key pieces of the debate and yet even if she did she fails to uphold most of her arguments.
My opponent has dropped the Paul Tillich symbol argument. This is a key argument in this debate so do not allow it to faulter in your decission.
Contention 2: Free Speach
My opponent's refutation to this argument is completely bogus. She states that you can have free speach as long as you do no harm. Yet displaying this flag doesn't do anymore harm then Fred Phelps improperly flying the American flag or having the gay US flag upside down. These things may be highly offensive to many people, but yet they are still permitted and thus so should the Confederate Flag. The Supreme Court upheld the Phellps V Snyder case to show that the Phellps had the right to their hate speach and even if my opponent considers the CSA Flag hate speach then it is still protected by law. My opponent then brings up the Dylon Roof case. There's quite an interesting back story behind him and what occured. It wasn't a racist up bringing or anything, but what occured is that this all started when he accessed a site called American Conservative. Now this is the Conservative like the Political Idealology, but was an actual KKK that was spouting lies and this turned Roof extreme.  The interesting lesson to learn here is to make sure the source you are reading is credible and not highly bias when doing your research.
Again here we can see that this arguement as my opponent has not fulfilled her BOP and that my Impact here completely outweighs her's. Not to mention that I have shown that this is Constitutional.
My opponent claims that she has refuted my two points in R2, but this is completely false and will probably cost her the debate.
A key argument that she DROPPED here was the John Rawls Veil of Ignorance that shows that this contraversy is bogus when we eliminate all bias behind the issue and I gave a massive impact of a Dystopian proportion and the fact that this was dropped practically gives me the debate since it was the largest impact of this debate showing that if this is done then it will lead to a more oppressive soceity. My arguments are key and spot on this resolution and any attempt to deny it is a dangerous one.
My opponent then gives a quote from Fredrick Douglas, of which I would have liked her to have stated where she had gotten that quote since it would almost be grounds of plagerism since it is uncited.
With multiple dropped arguments and a key impact that my opponent has dropped I can see no other choice, but an ballot in Negation.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 1 year ago
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||5||0|
Reasons for voting decision: http://www.debate.org/forums/miscellaneous/topic/77435/
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.