The Instigator
thesophist
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
righty10294
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

Resolved: The United States Federal Government should establish a Nation Health Care System.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,178 times Debate No: 158
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (11)

 

thesophist

Pro

I affirm the resolution that the USFG should create a universal health care system similar to Britain's NHS. I believe that this will lead to a healthier society, a more productive work force, and a more stable economy. With this plan, people will not have to work as much to pay off outrages medical bills. Since they will not be working so much, they will be better workers at their current jobs; "A Happy employee is a good employee." Lastly, with less people in debt, the keynesian savings ratio of 90/10 (spend 90% of the income and save 10%) can find its way back into the fiscal society.
righty10294

Con

Hello sophist,

I believe that national health care is wrong. It would ruin medical practices and the taxtaion. First let me break down your argument:

1)"this will lead to a healthier society, a more productive work force, and a more stable economy."- sophist

That is a strong statement. I don't believe it, so may i see some facts to back it up, or is it just your opinion.

2)"Since they will not be working so much, they will be better workers at their current jobs"- sophist

What does this mean? I beleive it means that employees will work less due to having to go to the doctors office or emergeny room for little things. This will cause unneccary wait times in the ER that could cost someone's life, because there was such a long wait. Also, their work will get sloppeir and not as good due to the fact the money isn't needed as much.

Other ideas you should think about before saying that national health care is right are that:

Healthcare would raise taxes. MOst people are complaining that tax rates are too high right now, wait till we have to pay the doctors and nurses. This will also call for nurses and doctors to have a paycut, which is the next reason.

Demand for nurses and doctors would rise. We are just gettong over the demand for nurses now we'll need more, because people won't like the pay and quit. It would be hard to get new ones too, because why would you go to college for 8 or so years and get paid the same as someone who might not even went to college.
Debate Round No. 1
thesophist

Pro

thesophist forfeited this round.
righty10294

Con

hello sophist:

I have no argument to respond (seems like in every debate I have the other person forfeits, lol) to but I will try and present some new ideas.

You say in your opening argument, that if we should adapt to a similar health care system like in the U.K. Well, this could ruin some peoples chance a a cure to something they have, because there is a limit on how much the government can lend you. A good example is a woman named Thelma Nixon. She had a serious eye disease called wet macular degeneration and if she didn't get the lucentis injections in her eyes, she would go blind. When she applied to get the injections, the NHS shot her down, because it cost "too much." This caused a lot of outrage in the country, because they wouldn't pay for the shot. The York Press reported the story in the paper, and a businessman saw it and wanted to pay for it. With this criticism and outrage, the NHS ended up paying for it to keep from being protested against.

there are many other stories in this article (where I got my previous statement above) you should check out. It's at http://freestudents.blogspot.com...

Another criticism of the system is that appointments take forever to get. They have adopted the phrase medical tourist in Europe meaning to English people who have left the country to get surgery quicker, instead of waiting weeks for it.

That is all I can say with no argument to respond to.
Debate Round No. 2
thesophist

Pro

thesophist forfeited this round.
righty10294

Con

Since my opponent, Sophist, has forfeited again, my I don't have a argument. I would like to respond to a comment posted by Squirrel. He said (from memory) that blogspot isn't a creditable resource, because it is a blog. Well, if you click on some of the links (colored phrases or words) they bring you to real articles in U.K.( example: the YOrk Press reported about the lady going blind).
Debate Round No. 3
thesophist

Pro

thesophist forfeited this round.
righty10294

Con

I guess he's busy, he hasn't been on in 2 weeks. Have no argument.

Speedying up the process till voting now.
Debate Round No. 4
thesophist

Pro

thesophist forfeited this round.
righty10294

Con

I guess he's busy, he hasn't been on in 2 weeks. Have no argument.

Speedying up the process till voting now.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by righty10294 9 years ago
righty10294
in round 3 I say that "from memory", that is my memory not squirrel's. Just wanted to clearify that.
Posted by Ineffablesquirrel 9 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
righty, blogspot is not an academic source, but someone's personal opinions (blog). If you can back up your argument with something better than a blog perhaps more people will find merit in your statements.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Yes , most of Europe has a NHS , however the standard of hospitals I have seen in Europe do not match the standards of hospitals we have here (at least not where I live) Id rather pay health care costs then have to give up the standard of care I receive and my daughter receives. Also they don't have the luxury of being really sick and going to an ER right away. They need to call and make an appointment. It takes ages to get an appointment. My husband grew up between here and Scotland and he agrees that the standard of care here is far superior than it was in Scotland.
Posted by Ineffablesquirrel 9 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
Most European countries have a national health care system and are able to receive health care whenever they need it as much better costs than in America. The politicians (prime ministers, presidents, etc) of the countries have used referendums (a public vote of "yes" or "no" on an issue) to see if people wanted to have lower taxes (which would change their health care systems) and every time this has occurred, the people of the various countries vote overwhelmingly that they want to keep their current systems with the higher taxes. Some European countries have taxes as high as 50 - 70%, but they get so many more things from their government that it does not matter to them. They are satisfied with their lives, communities, health care, schools, etc.
Posted by lindsay 9 years ago
lindsay
Righty,
In your last statement, I am confused with what you mean by saying "why would you go to college for 8 or so years and get paid the same as someone who might not even went to college" ?
Are you comparing nurses with advanced degrees to LVN/LPNs who only attended a junior college? Because even socialized medicine will still provide a pay-system based on education, so in other words, an RN will still make more than an LVN. I know this because I'm in nursing school right now.
OR did you mean a doctor goes to school for 8 or so years, and a nurse might not even "went to college"? I certainly hope that is not your point, because there is no such thing as a nurse that did not even go to college... perhaps a nurse's aid, but even an LVN has attended college.

Please make your argument clear.

Also, just so you know, the majority of people employed in the health field FAVOR the notion of socialized medicine. I know, I'm in it and surrounded by these people everyday. The pay will still be excellent, and we just have compassionate hearts for the human race.
Posted by magpie 9 years ago
magpie
It is ludicrous to believe that we would work less with UHC. Taxes are a drain on personal resourses, just as is health care. aND TAXES WOULD BE RAISED FOR ALL. The extra problem that ensues is the inefficiency of anything that is run by government.
Nothing is free! Any good that is desired and does not cost the recipient to receive it will be in great demand. The excessive demand puts a strain on the good and denies that good's availability to those who need it. Have you ever observed the demand for "free" things. If a gas station offered "free" gas, the resultant line would go on for miles and couples would rotate in shifts to prevent losing their place in line. If this station were the only one within 100 miles, you and I would be willing to pay $50.00 per gallon to avoid waiting in the endless line. That's exactly what happens in Britain's medical system. Speaking of education, Economics should be mandatory in High School.
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by texasrulz10 9 years ago
texasrulz10
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by BB1 9 years ago
BB1
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Bigmomma1 9 years ago
Bigmomma1
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by kenito001 9 years ago
kenito001
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by magpie 9 years ago
magpie
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by UberCryxic 9 years ago
UberCryxic
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Lacan 9 years ago
Lacan
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by nutter 9 years ago
nutter
thesophistrighty10294Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03