The Instigator
minddrag
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
CodingSource
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Resolved: The United States Government should make abortion illegal.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
CodingSource
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/19/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,298 times Debate No: 86896
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (31)
Votes (5)

 

minddrag

Con

Rules:
- No trolling or semantics.
- No swears or racial slurs.
- Forfeiting means an automatic loss, unless deemed okay by both sides.
- If you break the rules of each round (as specified below), automatic conduct violation.
- No google doc links.

Order of rounds:
R1: Acceptance and definitions.
R2: Maximum 2 arguments, no rebuttals.
R3: Maximum 2 arguments and rebuttals are allowed.
R4: ONLY rebuttals and conclusions. Con may not refute what I have said in R4, because I don"t have a chance to do so for your R4 either.

Definitions:
Abortion is defined as the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, usually during the first 28 weeks.

All other words in the resolution are self explanatory.
CodingSource

Pro

Thank you minddrag for challenging me into this debate.

DEFINITIONS (common words that I am going to use in my arguments yet to come):

Illegal: not allowed by the law [1]
Ban: to forbid people from using (something) [2]

I hope that we will have a wonderful and excellent debate.

Sources:
[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...


Debate Round No. 1
minddrag

Con

The topic we are debating today is whether or not the United States Government should make abortion illegal. The United States has already risen over the religious institutions in legalising gay marriage, which is a very big step in the direction of the free mind and body movement. Considering that they have already stated that everyone should have the right to do what they want with their body, shouldn't abortion be legal also? I would consider the baby, part of the mother until the umbilical cord is cut. Until then the baby is basically a parasite, feeding off the strength of the mother. I will go more in depth into this later on in the debate.

My second point is that every child should have the right to grow up in a strong household. Some of the factors that would make up a strong household would be parents and love, although those are just some of them, they make up the epitome of a good household. A child growing up without a good household is over twice as likely to develop psychotic tendencies and have mental disorders.

I would like to now point out that by requesting an abortion, the mother is stating that she cannot care for, does not want, or cannot have the child inside her body. For better or for worse this puts the child without love if it comes into this world. It will be more likely to be bullied, and abused, by peers at school or by the mother. Or the child could be put into an orphanage, a drain on the system, never knowing its mother, depressed and lonely. Do you want this fate for a child?

This picture would not be complete without a father of course. Whether it is a teen pregnancy and the father simply denies the girl, to a marriage where both the mother and the father do not want the baby, accidents to happen. Because birth control is never 100% effective, we should not, and have a moral responsibility not to make abortions illegal. Until we can say that you will not get a baby is you use this super condem (or any other form of 100% effective birth control), we should not take abortions away.

Why is this pro lifers might ask? Well it is because, we need to offer the women a foolproof option of getting rid of a child, that will not be loved, cared for and was a stake, weather by not having it made in the first place, or by cutting it off before it is born. We should be attempting as a society to produce children that are wholesome and grow up in a happy and healthy household, with both parents who care for them, as that will produce the best results for a society to grow. We as an advanced society should be promoting the sexual lifestyles of to individuals without allowing a chance of a baby to come in and figuratively and actually wrecking their lives, and their finances.

It is also a huge risk to the women. The number of women who get abortions does not change when it goes from being legal to illegal, or vice versa. The only thing that changes is more women die. Every year, 78,000 women die from unsafe abortions. This is because sometimes women cannot have the baby because of ridicule, it is unsafe or numerous other reasons. The women needs to not have said baby so she attempts to take it out without an abortion, which almost always leads to injury or death.

Reproductive restrictions do not end with abortion. Many people also argue that contraception itself is wrong—another mainly-religious philosophy—and will deny women the protection they need based on this belief. There are legislative acts that allow actual pharmacists to deny women their birth control because of their beliefs; does this not violate the Hippocratic Oath, especially if thousands of women are on birth control because their very lives depend on it (see above point)? Also, since it is mybelief that men should not rape women, if I were a pharmacist, would I have a right to deny a man his Viagra just in case he uses it to rape? You never know.

This moves me onto my final point for this speech. This is that most newly weds and new couples, simply cannot afford to care for a baby. Having another member of the family is extremely expensive (I am sure there are stats on this, but without Internet, I cannot check them), and it should not be forced on people.

Governments should stay out of the bedroom. Like China's one child policy, to restrict population growth, do we need a policy that does not allow us to control our population, and have children being born without love, or caring parents?

It is for these reasons that I do believe that this resolution Resolved that the United States Government should make abortion illegal, must and will fall. Thank you and have a great day! I look forward to my opponent's argument.
CodingSource

Pro

Roe v. Wade: A landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion. [1]

The Supreme Court’s landmark decision paved the way to make abortion legal. The decision says that women have any right to abort a child in early weeks of pregnancy but inhibits their ability to miscarry a child in later weeks. However, the legal decision is wrong. The 1973 Supreme Court considered that they went above their borderline as the US Constitution has no warranties in the concerns of privacy and abortion, and that abortion is a subject for the legislators, not the judges themselves.

In the 14th amendment, it states that "...nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property..." [2]. Therefore, we can see that at the first time that this amendment is used, abortion is illegal. There are Federal Laws that are already protecting the unborn, namely: the law of death penalty, fetal homicide laws (Federal Act 38) and Victims of Violence Act.

Federal law prohibits the death penalty for pregnant women until they give birth. (18 U.S.C.A. S.3596) In essence, the law declared that an innocent unborn person cannot be sentenced and put to death for a crime he did not commit. If the unborn child were not seen as a person in the eyes of the law, there would be no need for this prohibition.

Common law typically prohibited the execution of a pregnant woman until birth, though its prohibition was not even as strong as the current federal law. The U.S. Supreme Court (in Union P. R. Co. v. Botsford) explained the purpose of the common law doctrine: “to guard against the taking of the life of an unborn child for the crime of the mother.” Inconsistently, the Court calls the unborn child a “child” and yet refuses to recognize her as a person.


And the UVVA prevents abortion of fetuses, as it defines them as a “… a child in utero, and the term ‘child in utero’ or ‘child, who is in utero’ means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.”

Abortion is basically murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse. [3] The science we have learned confirms that an unborn child is indeed a human being, and in the States' fetal homicidal laws (alongside with the other two mention), it is made clear that killing unborn children is abhorrent and its life worthy of protection. [4]

There are many religions that refuses abortion. The Bible has it that from the moment of realization, a fetus is a human being. "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" - Jeremiah 1:5. It can't be denied that one of the commandments of God is "thou shalt not kill." Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam, among others, dismisses abortion.


Abortion makes life dispensable, and in fact, doctors were first prohibited to practice it for this reason. Nowadays, doctors are recommended to testify that they shouldn't play as God, and 8% of present-day oaths executed clearly prompts the doctor to reject the abortion practice. However, it is a big business in America given that 25% of pregnancies are aborted.

Abortion can lead to having medical problems and mental stress. This is likely to take into effect at least 5 years after doing it, and they have an increased chance of committing suicide (154% more possible than women in normal pregnancies). The miscarriage can have an unfavorable reaction to the partner as well. Due to upsurge of the possibility of miscarriage and placenta previa, it can cause mental stress to those who have done it, too. It can also rise the danger of breast cancer.

There are 14% of American women that are waiting for adopting a child, whereas only 1% have completed the process. After the 1973's Roe v. Wade, the 9% of babies born in America that were put for fosterage seriously dropped to 1%. These soon-to-be babies are not given the chance to appreciate life, freedom and quest of joy because of abortion.


A 12-week old fetus have eyes, fingers, toes, heart and a nervous system. By 8 weeks the unborn child can lean their spines which is an implication that they can feel pain. They can pull back from painful stimuli. During abortion, a 12-week old fetus wanes and opens their mouths to scream.


"While the majority of abortions that take place in the US and around the world are either medical (procured through drugs) or simple vacuum extractions abortions at a later stage of pregnancy are more difficult. These are properly called dilation and extraction abortions but are often referred to as Partial Birth Abortions. The procedure is truly horrendous for the fetus. It is turned in the womb and all of the body bar the head is delivered (the delivery of the head would imply a live birth). At this stage the fetus is completely alive and healthy. The surgeon then pierces the head and extracts the brain killing the baby. The body is then delivered. This is not a sanitized procedure, it is not humane and it is not always performed on a fetus who can feel no pain, many of the babies on whom this procedure is performed are capable of a viable birth. If the baby’s head were delivered and the procedure subsequently carried out it would be characterized as murder. This type of abortion is subject to bans and legal challenges. As a result many providers now stop the baby’s heart with a lethal injection prior to dismembering the fetus in utero. This does not, however, detract from the fact that the fetus is alive and capable of life just seconds before the injection takes effect." [5]

Verily, since 2010, 10 states have downright bans to women attempting to do abortion for more than 20 weeks. And did everyone of you know, that the possibility of women who performed abortion of dying is 0.6 in 100,000 (that is 6,000)? And if the 977,000 reported abortions in 2014 are taken individually [6] , then it means that 58,620 women died from doing this practice.

And truly, the mothers of Celine Dion, Cher, Justine Bieber, and Tim Tebow, among others, are told to undertake the procedure of abortion, but just denied it and instead gave birth to them. Having included that, it is also seen that abortion excludes the likelihood of a human being's offerings to humankind. [7] [8] [9] [10]

It is shameless to to use this practice as a form of contraception because of disturbance. [11] The Guttmacher Institute addressed that 50% of women having abortions every year had at least one under their belt, and 8.5% of them where Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is informed in 2010 that women doing it have sustained three or more abortions. [12] [13] This indicates that women are using it for contraception.


And one more thing, the fetus should not be punished by an adult's mistake. [14]


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...

[2] https://www.law.cornell.edu...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...

[4] http://liveactionnews.org...

[5] http://www.listland.com...

[6] http://www.abort73.com...

[7] http://abcnews.go.com...

[8] https://www.lifesitenews.com...

[9] http://www.today.com...

[10] http://www.usatoday.com...

[11] http://liveactionnews.org...

[12] http://www.guttmacher.org...

[13] http://www.cdc.gov...

[14] http://www.bbc.co.uk...









































































































Debate Round No. 2
minddrag

Con

Thank you for your rebuttals Coding Source, and I applaud you for taking this debate in a direction that I have not seen before, which made it incredibly hard to write a conventional argument, and I had to completely scrap my pre-made rebuttals and my constructive speech. Before I move on to my constructive speech I would first like to rebut a number of point that you made in your beginning argument.

You stated as your first point,"the law declared that an innocent unborn person cannot be sentenced and put to death for a crime he did not commit. If the unborn child were not seen as a person in the eyes of the law, there would be no need for this prohibition." I would now like to point out the flaw in this argument. It is moral to save this life, as the mother will be put to death right after the birth. This is allowing one life to succeed the other, and the child will not be punished for the mothers crime. This I would state is a completely different argument then abortion because it would not be saving the women's life or have any of the merits of abortion.

In your speech you talked about religion and abortion. Although the Catholic and Lutheran churches oppose abortion, more of their members believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases versus illegal in all or most cases (51% vs. 45%, Lutheran; 48% vs. 45%, Catholic). [1] This fact should show you that although it is the churches stance to oppose abortion, the majority of the church community are for abortion.

I"m probably not going to convince you that a fetus isn"t a life, as that"s basically the most intractable part of this whole debate, so I"ll be brief. A fetus can"t survive on its own. It is fully dependent on its mother"s body, unlike born human beings. Even if a fetus was alive, the "right to life" doesn"t imply a right to use somebody else"s body. People have the right to refuse to donate their organs, for example, even if doing so would save somebody else"s life. The "right to life" also doesn"t imply a right to live by threatening somebody else's life. Bearing children is always a threat the life of the mother. A "right to life" is, at the end of the day, a right to not have somebody else"s will imposed upon your body. Do women not have this right as well?

Even before birth, there are costs to pregnancy. In addition to the whole "carrying another human being around in your stomach for nine months" thing, many women, particularly teens, are shunned and shamed for their pregnancies " not only by friends, families, employers, and classmates, but also by advertisements in the subway. There's also the risk of violent retribution from abusive partners and parents. In short, there are a lot of reasons a woman might seek an abortion. Adoption doesn"t address all of them.

Now I will move on to my constructive speech. A woman's risk of dying from having an abortion is 0.6 in 100,000, while the risk of dying from giving birth is around 14 times higher (8.8 in 100,000). [2] The mortality rate of a colonoscopy is more than 40 times greater than that of an abortion.[3]

The US Supreme Court has declared abortion to be a "fundamental right" guaranteed by the US Constitution. The landmark abortion case Roe v. Wade, decided on Jan. 22, 1973 in favor of abortion rights, remains the law of the land. The 7-2 decision stated that the Constitution gives "a guarantee of certain areas or zones of privacy," and that "This right of privacy... is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy. [4]

Women who receive abortions are less likely to suffer mental health problems than women denied abortions. A Sep. 2013 peer-reviewed study comparing the mental health of women who received abortions to women denied abortions found that women who were denied abortions "felt more regret and anger" and "less relief and happiness" than women who had abortions. The same study also found that 95% of women who received abortions "felt it was the right decision" a week after the procedure. [5] Studies by the American Psychological Association (APA), the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges (AMRC), and researchers at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health all concluded that purported links between abortion and mental health problems are unfounded. [6]

Women who are denied abortions are more likely to become unemployed, to be on public welfare, to be below the poverty line, and to become victims of domestic violence. A University of California at San Francisco study found that women who were turned away from abortion clinics (because they had passed the gestational limit imposed by the clinic) were three times more likely to be below the poverty level two years later than women who were able to obtain abortions. 76% of the "turnaways" ended up on unemployment benefits, compared with 44% of the women who had abortions. The same study found that women unable to obtain abortions were more likely to stay in a relationship with an abusive partner than women who had an abortion, and were more than twice as likely to become victims of domestic violence. [7] [8]

Abortion reduces crime. According to a study co-written by Freakonomics co-author Steven D. Levitt, PhD, and published in the peer-reviewed Quarterly Journal of Economics, "legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions." Around 18 years after abortion was legalized, crime rates began to drop abruptly, and crime rates dropped earlier in states that allowed abortion earlier. Because "women who have abortions are those most at risk to give birth to children who would engage in criminal activity," and women who had control over the timing of childbearing were more likely to raise children in optimal environments, crime is reduced when there is access to legal abortion. [9]

It is for the reasons that I have stated above, and in my previous speech that I would encourage a vote against the resolution. I look forward to my opponents rebuttals and speech in the next round. Below you will see a list of the resources that I have used to write my rebuttals and speech. Thank you for your time.

Resources:
[1]Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, US Religious Landscape Survey: Religious Beliefs and Practices: Diverse and Politically Relevant, religions.pewforum.org, June 2008
[2]E.G. Raymond and D.A. Grimes, "The Comparative Safety of Legal Induced Abortion and Childbirth in the United States," Obstetrics and Gynecology, Feb. 2012
[3]American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and American Medical Association, "Brief of Amici Curiae [in Planned Parenthood of Greater Texas Surgical Health Services et al. v. Attorney General Gregory Abbot et al.]," acog.org, Dec. 19, 2013
[4]Roe v. Wade (342 KB) , US Supreme Court, lp.findlaw.com, Jan. 22, 1973
[5]Corinne H. Rocca, Katrina Kimport, et al., "Women's Emotions One Week after Receiving or Being Denied an Abortion in the United States," Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, Sep. 2013
[6]Susan A. Cohen, "Still True: Abortion Does Not Increase Women"s Risk of Mental Health Problems," Guttmacher Policy Review, Spring 2013
[7]Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health (ANSIRH), University of California at San Francisco, "Turnaway Study," ansirh.org (accessed Apr. 22, 2014)
[8]Annalee Newitz, "What Happens to Women Denied Abortions? This Is the First Scientific Study to Find Out," io9.com, Nov. 13, 2012
[9]John J. Donohue, and Steven D. Levitt, "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime," The Quarterly Journal of Economics, May 2001 (Despite admitting to an error in one of this study's tables, Levitt has stated that "the story we put forth in the paper is not materially changed by the coding error." See Steven D. Levitt, "Everything in Freakonomics Is Wrong!," freakonomics.com, Nov. 28, 2005)
CodingSource

Pro


How pregnancy does begin? It started with an intercourse, and then the sperm penetrates with the ovum, fertilizes, and a new human life has begin (no need for source. It is basic science). This life has a biochemical identity through DNA that is different and unique from any other individuals. [1]

How did abortion become legal in the U.S.? In the 1960s, colleges and universities began a sexual revolution which resulted to unwanted pregnancies and in turn, pressured lawmakers to allow and legalize abortion. [2] [3] In 1967, many states started to do so. And then, in 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court finished Roe v. Wade, and initially made abortion legal throughout America. From that day on, 57 million innocent lives (as of 2015) have been lost by this practice. [4] With that figure, the most gruesome war has been ongoing for 40 years now and has gone undiscovered. This terror is as ghastly as anything terrorists can pinpoint because it destroys the basic community of man: family. By damaging the simplest human bond of all, a mother and a child, abortion breaks down the valued glue that unites America.


There are many cases that women die later on or cannot conceive further children because nearly half of the abortions that are executed around the world are performed by unskilled doctors. [1] [2] Abortion has taught mankind that there is a way out of pregnancy. It also influenced the youth wherein we should teach them the frugality of sex. It also has an impact to young people where they would know that there is no severe effect for that primary doing.

Abortion can also have a negative impact for families. Performing an abortion is not some good role modeling skills and it can damage family relations because of the decision they have done. [3] [4] Abortion is also a very heart aching thing to do as it is impossible to undo or alter.

Abortion can also cause many medical problems such as bladder injury, bowel injury, ectopic pregnancy, hemorrhage, hepatitis, infection, laceration of the cervix, miscarriages, uterus perforation, placenta previa, post-abortion syndrome, breast cancer (as mentioned in the previous round), and many more. There is a possibility that your baby would be incomplete and a less chance of delivering a normal birth [5]. Furthermore, the National Cancer Institute conducted a study that states that the risk of breast cancer for those who had induced abortion was 50% higher than other women. [14]

There are also aftermaths of not safe abortion. Worldwide, the unsafe practice of this is 220 per 100,000. [6] It is even higher than what Con stated that “normal birth gives 8.8 out of 100,000 deaths.

“For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.” Psalm 139:13-16

David elaborates it clearly that he was there personally, and not as a blotch of tissue that later developed into his human figure.

“"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

The above Bible passage points out that every child that is in the mother’s womb is unique.

In the Old Testament, God required death penalty to mothers who gave birth to a child prematurely and dies. However, if no “mischief” follows, the death penalty is not being executed.

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life," Exodus 21:22-23

Why would God demands death penalty if He didn’t recognize the fetus as a human being?

Think about this: at two weeks pregnancy the fetus can move alone. By four weeks the fetus has limbs, muscle tissue, heart and a heartbeat. In the fifth week, eyes, ears, and small hands are developed. The fetus can now react to touch by the sixth and seventh week. Now, when a mother aborts in the eighth week or more than, the poor child sometimes tries to breath (if twelve weeks old, the fetus often strives for life two or three hours after being aborted). [10] [11] And the baby that is eight weeks old or more than endures real physical pain. [12] To think, the fetus’ heart starts beating at 20 days, and began to send brainwaves from his brain in 40 days, these factors are used by the law to verify death (brain and heartbeat). Why these can’t be used to ascertain life? (13)

And one of the commandments of God in the Book of Exodus, it says “Thou shalt not murder.” What is murder? According to the Bible, it is an intentional killing of an innocent human being. Therefore, it is illogical to say that the majority of believers support abortion. Two questions, among others, should be asked. One, are they religious enough? Two, do they read the Bible daily or attend the Church weekly? [8] There are many more Bible verses that prove that abortion is the shedding of innocent blood, violation of the Golden rule, attempts to destroy the work of God, encourages sin, degrades human life, disannuls the plan of God, and shows lack of faith, which I will gladly present in the next round, if the circumstances are favorable. [9]

Therefore, abortion is merely an illogical act to commit. Women can mate whenever they want. And there is a possibility that the baby has a better life than anybody else (refer to my statement in Round 1). Moreover, humans are the only animals that deliberately kill the fetus because they only thought of it as a thing. [7]

REBUTTALS: (P - Paragraph)

- the opening -
P.1: My argument completely states that the law sees the baby as a human being, and therefore avoid killing the mother until she completes giving nourishment to it.
P.2: P.s 8-15.
P.3: P. 15. Using Con's argument, it means that human beings should not eat animal meat because we didn't have that right to use somebody else' body. We are carnivorous; we hunt animals for our food source (and we are becoming more carnivorous). [15]
P.4, 5-7: My P. 4 - 5
P.6: Roe V. Wade is not the Law of the Land as it isn't passed nationwide. [16]
P.9: 57M aborts = murder, P.2


(1) http://www2.le.ac.uk...
(2) https://en.wikipedia.org...
(3) http://www.alternet.org...
(4) http://www.lifenews.com...
(1) https://www.guttmacher.org...
(2) https://www.sciencedaily.com...
(3) http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org...
(4) http://liveactionnews.org...
(5) http://www.abortionfacts.com...
(6) https://www.guttmacher.org...
(7) http://www.public.asu.edu...
(8) http://www.christianexaminer.com...
(9) http://www.biblebelievers.com...
(10) http://www.babycentre.co.uk...
(11) http://liveactionnews.org...
(12) http://www.abortionfacts.com...
(13) J.M. Tanner, G.R. Taylor, and the Editors of Time-Life Books, Growth, New York: Life Science Library, 1965.
(14) http://www.texasrighttolife.com...
(15) http://www.nature.com...
(16) http://www.arky.org...


Debate Round No. 3
minddrag

Con

I cannot make my argument this round... My apologies.
CodingSource

Pro

Rule for R4: "ONLY rebuttals and conclusions."

I cannot rebut Con's statement in R4, and he violated his rule. Not making an argument for this round is not a rebuttal and a conclusion. Therefore, I will quote from a source [1] why abortion is immoral, and should be self-explanatory:

According to Marquis, abortion is seriously morally wrong because it is an act of killing a being with a right to life and killing a being with a right to life is seriously morally wrong because it robs such a being of its future--a future, in particular, of great value like ours.

For this reason, vote Pro! Thank you Con, minddrag, for such a memorable debate.

[1] http://www.qcc.cuny.edu...

Debate Round No. 4
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tejretics 8 months ago
tejretics
>I don't mind about your vote. I said it is everybody's free will.

No, I mean my RFD -- is my RFD fine? Do you have any questions/concerns?
Posted by CodingSource 8 months ago
CodingSource
@tejretics: I don't mind about your vote. I said it is everybody's free will.
@donald.keller: Define #dumba$$. A person who's debating is not a dumba$$.
Posted by donald.keller 8 months ago
donald.keller
Lol Coding you dumba$$.

Anyways, saying you lost doesn't mean I'm against you. I'm very pro-life. However, I'm also pro-good voting.

@Wylted. Ikr? See the issues I'm bringing up in the forums?
Posted by tejretics 8 months ago
tejretics
I hope you don't have problems with my vote, Coding -- if you do, feel free to PM me so we can discuss it =)
Posted by CodingSource 8 months ago
CodingSource
And don't tell me if one good voter voted against me. I don't dictate the votes. Your statements against me by saying I don't win, etc. is saying that you are obviously against me. If you want a fight, let's fight outside of this site, because you are so against me. Be careful of challenging me, I know martial arts.

I joined this website to have a healthy experience. I joined this site to expand my knowledge by reading and increase my online debating skills. I don't seek for fights, and things such as this. I thought that I shouldn't make friends with an enemy. Unfortunately, I am friends with you and if there is a way to unfriend you, I shall do it. Don't tell that you don't need me because I don't need you either. You have no contributions for me staying in this website.

A win, loss, or tie does not have any contributions for my future. So what if I loss in this debate? Does it matter? I said he violated his Round Rule, not FF, so never blame me in PM'ing those guys to ask for FF votes. And I never messaged the guys who voted here. It is only you and Midnight1131 because I saw from the forum post of whiteflame (Taking a Step Back, I think) to only ask those guys some votes because he will never have time to vote. I hate people who are against me in many ways. If you consider me as an enemy and a threat to what you are doing, do I care? Then I'll think of you the same.
Posted by Wylted 8 months ago
Wylted
The forfeit votes, are ridiculous.
Posted by CodingSource 8 months ago
CodingSource
@donald.keller: You should've voted and reported all of the votes. You have many complaints. And so what if I won, does it matter? It doesn't also affect my life if I lose. It doesn't stop me from trying, and those votes will never feed my stomach. They never pay my education, even you. And what if one voter voted against me? It doesn't have any effect in my life at all because all of the voters has the choice to vote for one side.

And what I said is he violated a Round Rule not forfeiture so I'm not responsible for all of the votes.
Posted by famousdebater 8 months ago
famousdebater
@Donald.Keller - I request re-entry into the voter's union. This removal was unjustified and unacceptable even under the voter's union policy. Firstly, I never made this vote on the behalf of the voter's union. Secondly, the union's policy clearly states that I may vote as I like on votes that aren't made on the behalf of the union. I wish to be given a more plausible reason before you just remove me from it.
Posted by donald.keller 8 months ago
donald.keller
You didn't win, Coding. You assume that because you got the most points, you "won." But only one voter read the debate, and he voted against you. His is the only vote that matters here because his is the only real vote on the debate itself.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by tejretics 9 months ago
tejretics
minddragCodingSourceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments (on behalf of the Voter Union)
Vote Placed by fire_wings 9 months ago
fire_wings
minddragCodingSourceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by ssadi 9 months ago
ssadi
minddragCodingSourceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by famousdebater 9 months ago
famousdebater
minddragCodingSourceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
minddragCodingSourceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round by not posting an argument.