The Instigator
Pro (for)
7 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
1 Points

Resolved: The Unwind solution is a better solution to abortion than a Modest Purposial.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/1/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,908 times Debate No: 62495
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)




This debate shall be about these two pieces of satire. The Unwind series by Neal Shusterman and A Modest Purposial by Johnathan Swift.


Round 1 is for definitions by Pro while Con will make his opening arguments.

Round 2 Pro will make contentions and rebuttles, while Con Refutes.

Round 3 is rebuttles by Pro and Con makes rebuttles and Conclusion.

Round 4 Pro makes rebuttles and conclusion, Con will states, "No round as argeed upon."

If Con says anything else in the finial round then it's a forfeit of all 7 points.

No swearing

No trolling


Thank you to my opponent for initiating this debate.

As Pro did not state the time era in which this debate would take place, and since Pro stated that both the Modest Proposal and the Unwind Solution are both solutions to abortion, I will assume that the methods will be used in the present.

I"ll also assume that the Burden of Proof is evenly distributed. Additionally since the information is derived from literature, and our opinions are formed from speculation, I believe that sources should not count in this debate. I hope that Pro will agree to these terms.

Before I begin I would like to say that both the Unwind Solution and the Modest Proposal are both sickly resolutions; however I would be taking the side that the Modest Proposal is better than the Unwind Solution.

The Unwind Solution as stated by Neal Shusterman in the book Unwind, states that by law 99.4% of the human must be recycled, the subject must be 13 to 17 years in age, and the subject must be fully conscious during the operation. As in the book, certain children are specifically raised to be harvested. These conditions are must haves for the Unwind Solution.

The Modest Proposal as stated by Jonathan Swift is the process of fattening up these children and feed them to rich land-owners. [5]

Argument 1: The Unwind Solution is a Form of Torture
During the chapter in which Roland is dismembered, the book stated that it took three hours and nineteen minutes to fully unwind the subject. This is an extreme form of psychological torture, knowing that you are slowly being unravelled. The Modest Proposal does not require subjects to be fully conscious; and with modern technology, we can painlessly and instantly kill the subjects. Additionally one year old babies are less aware of their surroundings than thirteen to seventeen year old teens.

Argument 2: Donating Organs as per the Unwind Solution has High Risks
During the Book Unwind, CyFi (Cyrus Finch) was crippled by an Unwind"s brain. Shusterman described it as "There is no peace in CyFi"s head. The Fry (Lev) doesn"t know how bad it is. The Fry doesn"t know how the feelings crash over him like storm-driven waves pounding a failing seawall. The wall is going to collapse soon, and when it does CyFi will lose it. He"ll lose everything. His mind will spill out of his ears and down the drains of the streets of Joplin. He knows it." CyFi was also damaged by the fact that he had an uncontrollable urge to steal. Transplanting brains could lead to insanity and it could transfer behaviour problems to the person receiving the parts.

Argument 3: Parts Pirates
In the second book of the Trilogy, a new view was added: Parts Pirates. For those of you who don"t know, Parts Pirates are "bounty hunters" who set out to captures AWOLs and sell them on the black market. The parts pirates use traps that starve the children, hurt them and use the children for their own "entertainment". Children who know that they are going to be unwound when they are thirteen years old (tithes) would undoubtedly try to run and escape, leading to the rise of Parts Pirates. The Part Pirates and the black market will not be able to grantee that the subjects will die humanly.
The Modest Proposal on the other hand does not require the subjects to be of thirteen years old; therefore babies can be killed when they are one year old, meaning that none of them could attempt to escape. This could be done both painlessly and humanely.

Argument 4: Children
It is unfair for the children who are being unwound to know that they are being raised for the sole purpose of unwinding. They could suffer discrimination, because they are though more as an "object" than a human being. The few years that they have may be filled with loneliness and despair. The modest proposal kills the subject when they do not understand and identify overmuch.

Argument 5: The Unwind Solution could lead to Political Unrest
This argument ties in with my previous argument, children who are begin raised to be unwound may also rebel. Due to the increase in technology, one person can take on many as shown in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. It was said that there was 24-26 people that killed over one hundred people and injured many others. [3] If children choose to revolt, there could be a large flash riot, putting hundreds of citizens at risk. Thus the Modest Proposal is also safer politically than the Unwind Solution.

Argument 6: The Financial Problems
One of the main reasons that women choose abortion is due to their financial issues. [1] However the Unwind Solution states that the children must be thirteen years of age before they can be unwound. This poses a problem because people might not have the ability to take care of the child. If they are sent to orphanages and state homes, this provides as serious economical drain, especially since they also need to fund the facilities and pay the unwinders. The average cost of raising a child to thirteen years old is 203518.44 USD [2], combine that with the maintenance of medical facilities, guards, surgeons and the like, the family may face serious economic issues. Although there might be money made from selling the organs, the abundance of the organs may cause prices to decline dramatically.
The Modest Proposal on the other hand is cheap. You only have to raise a child to 1 year of age, and according to Jonathan Swift: "a newborn infant can be supported for its first year on breast-milk and two shillings, a sum that can easily be obtained by begging." [4] This is much less cheaper than how much money the Unwind Proposal needs, thus the modest proposal triumphs over the unwind proposal economically.

The Modest proposal triumphs over the unwind solution through these six arguments.

Debate Round No. 1


Contention 1: Unwinding=/= torture.

Though my opponent makes it seem terrible you do not feel a single thing other than a shot during the Unwinding process. In Chapter 61, Roland is injected with a pure Oxygen substence that kills all of the pain recepters in his body. Secondly, the children who get unwound are those who are trouble makers in life and are thus rounded up and Unwound. The people in the Unwind Camps say it's "Tithes and Terribles." The tithes on the other hand are those who are raised from birth believing that they will give themselves to a better purpose and they are unwound. They are escentailly brainwashed into believing that this is a good process as in the first book Lev had a hard time accepting what his tithe actually meant and went to the extreme of becoming a Clapper. ( Though those selected to be Unwounds based on behavior is just like doing the death penalty to criminals. Even the US Supreme Court currently has upheld the Death Penalty so the same can be extended. ( On page 19 of Unwholly, they give an add, "When my parents signed the unwind order I was scared... But once I got to the BigSky Harvest Camp all that changed. I found other kids like me and was finaly accepted for who I was. I found out that every single part of me was precious an valuable thanks to people at BigSky Harvest Camp, I'm not afraid of my unwinding anymore. The Divided state? Wow. What an adventure!"

Contention 2: Organ Donating

My opponent tries to scare you with this part, but what he doesn't tell you is that it's illegal. CYFI's father got him an entire lobe instead of just brain bits to rebuild. If he had recieved the brain bits then he wouldn't have this expierence. (

Contention 3: Parts Pirates

My opponent shows you the kidnapping of Unwinds for this, but he doesn't tell you that this already happens today so that there is no uniqueness in his argument thus it holds no water. In 2003, Hospital 6 Ukraine, they have been found to have been killing children to give organs and to donate to reserch across the Globe. ( and (

Contention 4: Children

For the tithes they are raised from birth to accept this and give back to God. They also are blessed by God as you always here stories of people who get them do amazing things. As for the people who are the Unwinds, they are given an entire life to do good things, but in the end many of them get unwound, because of their bad choices. The book also states that this is before the children fully devolpe reason so that way they are not officially born yet.

Contention 5: Unwind leads to political unrest.

Once again my opponent fails when it comes to uniquesness as the Unwind solution came from the Heartland War and the Teen Uprising. ( The Teen Uprising occured as the entire teenage population began to feel neglected and they rose up in an anarchic riot to attempt to topple the government. The Heartland War fallowed and this led to the Unwind solution which created wolrd peace, so by not ennacting this policy the entire system will collapse. (

Contention 6: Financial Problems

My opponent misses one problem when it comes to this Contention and it's the Storking Initiative. This states that a mother may leave a baby on someones front poarch and if your not caught it is no longer your baby. The 9/10th law states that the finder gives the person who finds the baby is then the owner of it. (

This part is actually in the Bible as Moses was storked and then found in the Nile by the Pharoh's daughter.

Contention 7: Food Problems are not an issue.

Though I'm not arguing that there are no starvation problems, but I will instead be arguing that the world has an excess of food. Many of the first world countries have great obesity numbers and today we consume 50% more meat than we used to. ( The UN has even found that 1/3 of all food produced in the world can feed the world. (


Contention 1: Torture is not defined by Pain

My opponent believes that the lack of pain means that unwinding is not torture. However this is not the case, according to, water torture is a form of torture even though there is no pain. [1] Pain defined as physical suffering or distress as defined by [2]. Additionally my opponent failed to notice that in round one I posted physiological torture.

Pro gave an example of an ad that stated the Unwinding is like an adventure. However we must take into account whether this ad is done by the Proactive Agency, and thus this argument is void.

Contention 2: There will be a New "Teen uprising"

Unwinding was the "quick" solution to the Teen Uprising; however this will not discourage teens to rebel. Near the end of Unwholly, Hayden shouted "To the new Teen Uprising!" as he was being carted away and the fact that many AWOLs wanted more scenarios like the explosion of Happy Jack shows that kids shows that there is still the urge to rebel in teens.
The Teen Uprising was the result of the second civil war (The Heartland War), and the Unwind Solution was the result of the Teen Uprising

Contention 3: Stroking =/= Unwinding

My opponent believe that there will be no financial problems from Stroking, however the victims of Stroking suffers from the burden of raising the child, and the government suffers from the lack of tax dollars from the parents due to their extra child. [3]

The title also states the Unwind solution is a better solution to abortion than a Modest Proposal. There was no mention of stroking, and thus I consider this contention to be void.

Contention 4: There will be more Part Pirates

My opponent"s sources states that there are already "Parts Pirates" and thus my opponent concludes that my arguments hold no water. However Unwinding will bring an increase in the number of victims, my opponent"s sources states that only Ukraine undertakes this act, however the Unwind solution would bring this into both North America and into an illegal light.

Debate Round No. 2


Contention 1: Torture is not defined by Pain.

If we observe Con's definition of torture we can see it as the physical suffering, but since the Oxygen solution is pumped into the body it kills all pain receptors and there is thus no pain nor feeling. You are still alive as well as you are alive, but in a devided state. You are still alive and do not suffer any pain, thus you are not being tortured.

The add is on Page 19 of UnWholly and unforunately does not say who the add is by, so until there is evidence proving that it was done by the Proactive Agency then the argument stands. My opponent drops my argument about tithes so I extend that argument across the board.

Contention 2: There will be a New Teen Uprising.

Another major thing here that my opponent fails to tell you is that Connor, the Akron AWOL, is against this kind of violence. He doesn't believe in launches such violent attacks (Shusterman, UnWholly, page 29). Since he is the biggest AWOL figure he commands this type of authority. The second is Lev who also agrees with Connor, so my opponent's argument is invalid.

Contention 3: Storking=/= Unwinding.

My opponent is mistaken as I have given the titles of two pieces of work. The Unwind and A Modest Purposial. I'll extend this argument across the board. My opponent states that the government will lose out on Revenue, but the book is in the United States while the law that my opponent brought up in link three is that of a Canadian law and thus is invalid as it has no effect on the story. (

Contention 4: Parts Pirates

I have shown in my last round that they already exist and such a thing is illegal, so this argument has no uniqueness and thus invalid. Secondly, in UnWholly, Prop 58 is purposed and it tells of legalizing adult voluntary unwinding in where the families make this profit to provide for their family and this decreases the Parts Pirates.

Contention 5: Unwinding leads to political unrest.

My opponent has dropped this argument, so I extend this argument across the board.

Contention 6: Financial Problems

My opponent has dropped this argument, so I extend it across the board.

Contention 7: Food Problems not an issue.

My opponent has dropped this argument as this argument is an attack on A Modest Purposial and this argument being droped is key in this debate. I extend this argument across the board.



IronCurx forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


All points extended. Please vote Pro.


No round as argeed upon.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by lannan13 2 years ago
We could go again another time, but this debate is over though.
Posted by IronCurx 2 years ago
Sorry I had to do some ceremony stuff and missed the deadline, could we debate this some other time?
Posted by lannan13 2 years ago
Been buisy, will get to this tomorrow.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Dpowell 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by kasmic 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con dropped many of his arguments, therefore arguments to pro. Conduct for the one round forfeit.