The Instigator
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
Guitar_Guru
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: The current Border Fence should be construced

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,612 times Debate No: 22287
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

16kadams

Con

We know the drill. First round acceptance.

Border fence, also the border wall, is a very controversial topic. The border fence is defined as:

"The Mexico – United States barrier – also known in the United States as the border fence or border wall – is actually several separation barriers designed to prevent illegal movement across the Mexico"
http://en.wikipedia.org...

See article for visual aid.
Guitar_Guru

Pro

Challenge Accepted ! Good Luck to my opponent ^.^ Hope we have a great round :D
Debate Round No. 1
16kadams

Con

I hope this is fun too XD

C1: The high costs of the Border fence

This is a high priority issue in the border wall debate, as if the costs outweigh the benefits there is no reason to support the fence. I think there is no benefit to a fence, therefore is worthless.

The border fence may cost 30 billion which is not cost efficient in the least. [1]In the next 20 years the maintenance one he fence as a whole will near 7 billion dollars. [2] another estimate says it will cost 49 billion dollars. [3] Yes you read correctly, 49 BILLION DOLLARS. As a fiscal conservative this worries me as I think less spending is beneficial. As the current fence stands, it costed 3 billion to make. [4] (non complete one)

Now, my opponent either must prove the border wall is either worth at least 20 billion dollars, and then 6 billion dollars in repair every 20 years, or prove building the whole fence would not be that costly.

C2: Environmental effects

This too like C1 is fairly irrefutable. These arguments are facts, my C3 is where he needs to sway us. He needs to prove it can outweigh the downsides to the fence.

The US border fence actually hurts bear migration from Mexico so the southern US. [5]

"A new study finds fences and walls along the Mexican border could have a detrimental effect on black bears who live in northern Mexico and Arizona." [6]

And bears are the best, this is the only reason to be anti fence because of the bears :(

"The U.S.-Mexico border fence will make life harder on some South Texas farmers, damage valuable wildlife habitat, impair views and generally become an obstacle to border life, the Department of Homeland Security acknowledged in an environmental study of the fence's impact. " [7]

"Mexico called on the United States to alter a plan to expand border fences designed to stem illegal immigration, saying the barriers would threaten migratory species accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier. " [8]

---> other harm, erosion

"To the east of Smuggler's Gulch, in the rugged Otay Mountain Wilderness Area, DHS has blasted mountainsides in order to create access roads and level ground upon which to build the border wall. Before construction began the Environmental Protection Agency raised concerns that the dumping of tons of rubble, and the erosion that would follow, would clog the Tijuana River and violate the Clean Water Act. " [9]

No es bueno.

---> Cost to goverment... again.

"The federal government has pledged millions of dollars to make up for the environmental damage from building hundreds of miles of fences along the Mexican border through wilderness and protected lands. " [10]

Sorry for quoting, I am lazy today :)

---> Floods

"Flooding caused by a border security fence in southwestern Arizona shows the structure is being built too quickly and without regard for the environment, critics say. " [11]

|environment angry >:{ |

C3: Does not work!!

"In fact, the Border Patrol's own statistics show that the border walls have not brought about a decrease in illegal entries............ Apprehensions dropped dramatically between 2005, the year before the Secure Fence Act was passed, and 2007, the year after. But the decrease did not occur in areas where border walls had been built. " [12] [13]

Also in a test 2 girls got too the top of the fence in under 18 seconds. [14] Sound like it works to you?

In the Show Penn and Teller BS (abbreviated) they disproved the fences effectiveness by making a fence exactly like the ones in san diego then got illegal aliens, then asked one group to go under, one over, one break through the middle. All of them broke through faster then 5 minutes. [15]

he number of breaches with or without walls are no different, in 1992 we had the same amount of breaches as in 2004 in san diego after the walls where made. [12, 16]

Conclusion:

The fence is bad for the environment, doesn't work, and is very costly. I urge a con vote.



[1] http://www.nytimes.com...
[2] http://www.cbsnews.com...
[3] http://www.sfgate.com...
[4] http://www.bloomberg.com...
[5] http://latino.foxnews.com...
[6] http://www.bizjournals.com...
[7] http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
[8] http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
[9] http://www.no-border-wall.com...
[10] http://www.nytimes.com...
[11] http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
[12] http://www.no-border-wall.com... (quotes)
[13] http://www.nytimes.com... (general source)
[14] (video at the top)
[15] Penn and Teller BS Border fence. (you tube it, I will not post it here due to profanities)
[16] "Border Security: Barriers Along the U.S. International Border" Congressional Research Service
Guitar_Guru

Pro

Sorry, but it seems as though I need to drop out of this tournament. Not enough time to argue, I have some more debate tournaments coming up so I need to keep prepping. This win goes to 16K.

To think I was about to go all out with Political Realism :p
Debate Round No. 2
16kadams

Con

On then. Vote con... It was fun while it lasted ^_^

Good luck in the future :)
Guitar_Guru

Pro

Sorry, I wish we got to have an actual debate, it would've been fun :/ Lol, good luck in the rest of your tourney ^.^
Debate Round No. 3
16kadams

Con

Thank you, and good luck in your real tournament.

Vote CON.
Guitar_Guru

Pro

Thanks a lot man ! I'm gonna need it :p Vote CON ! :p
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
no
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
Were you playing devil's advocate?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
16kadamsGuitar_GuruTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeit.
Vote Placed by FourTrouble 5 years ago
FourTrouble
16kadamsGuitar_GuruTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
16kadamsGuitar_GuruTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession. And I always thought 16k was Pro-Border Fence... o.0!