The Instigator
hwp460
Pro (for)
The Contender
Unibadger
Con (against)

Resolved:We should move all education standards to be based on Freirean Pedagogy.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2018 Category: Education
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 218 times Debate No: 107758
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

hwp460

Pro

Freirean pedagogy is a teaching style where the student and the teacher are equals. The educator treats the student like a partner in his education. It takes away the autocracy from a classroom and puts in cooperation. It takes out the lectures and puts in a discussion. I affirm this for I believe it will truly make education better.
Unibadger

Con

Hello, and I'll be joining you for debate.

I believe freirean pedagogy is not beneficial to society. I honestly have never heard of this, but I'll try my best...

Freirean Pedagogy is a way for teachers to communicate with their students by having discussions in-class. However, doing this will give the teacher less time to communicate with each individual student. An average class has about 25 students. Having to have a discussion with each of the students, each with their own individual beliefs, shortens the time-frame the teacher gets to actually teach. With the banking method, every student gets the same amount of information in the same amount of time. The teacher can fit an immense amount of info in one class period, speeding the education process along. If the student didn't take notes, that's just the student's study habits. If the student is lagging behind, they could just have an individual discussion with the teacher (which every teacher is obligated to help) outside of class time, thus eliminating the con of shortening the time-frame of teaching.

Critical thinking seems to be a big part of the freirean philosophy, but that is easily solved by assignments that require critical thinking. Essays, reports, all of these require what freirean pedagogy offers. As almost every education system in the US (or in other places) assign these types of assignments, all students develop these skills in the "banking" system anyways.
Debate Round No. 1
hwp460

Pro

Thank you for accepting even without knowing. Debate is an educational tool and a communicative art form so I hope it helps you with a better understanding of Freirean Pedagogy.

You say the banking method is better and critical thinking is being developed through it anyway. This is flat out untrue.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com...
This article outlines how schools just straight up don't teach critical teaching skills.

This requires a change in the way education itself is conceived. The education system is dominated by the banking concept of teaching which relies on alienating, abstract truths. Freire 70
Paulo Friere. Pedagogy of the Oppressed. 1970. http://www.msu.ac.zw...
A careful analysis of the teacher-student relationship at any level, inside or outside the school, reveals its fundamentally narrative character. This relationship involves a narrating Subject (the teacher) and patient listening objects (the students). The contents, whether values or empirical dimensions of reality, tend in the process of being narrated to become lifeless and petrified. Education is suffering from narration sickness. The teacher talks about reality as if it were motionless, static, compartmentalized, and predictable. Or else he expounds on a topic completely alien to the existential experience of the students. His task is to "fill" the students with the contents of his narration -- contents which are detached from reality, disconnected from the totality that engendered them and could give them significance. Words are emptied of their concreteness and become a hollow, alienated, and alienating verbosity. The outstanding characteristic of this narrative education, then, is the sonority of words, not their transforming power. "Four times four is sixteen; the capital of Para is Belem." The student records, memorizes, and repeats these phrases without perceiving what four times four really means, or realizing the true significance of "capital" in the affirmation "the capital of Para is Belem," that is, what Belem means for Para and what Para means for Brazil. Narration (with the teacher as narrator) leads the students to memorize mechanically the narrated account. Worse yet, it turns them into "containers," into "receptacles" to be "filled" by the teachers. The more completely she fills the receptacles, the better a teachers she is. The more meekly the receptacles permit themselves to be filled, the better students they are. Education thus becomes an act of depositing, in which the students are the depositories and the teacher is the depositor. Instead of communicating, the teacher issues communiques and makes deposits which the students patiently receive, memorize, and repeat. This is the "banking' concept of education, in which the scope of action allowed to the students extends only as far as receiving, filing, and storing the deposits. They do, it is true, have the opportunity to become collectors or cataloguers of the things they store. But in the last analysis, it is the people themselves who are filed away through the lack of creativity, transformation, and knowledge in this (at best) misguided system. For apart from inquiry, apart from the praxis, individuals cannot be truly human. Knowledge emerges only through invention and re-invention, through the restless, impatient continuing, hopeful inquiry human beings pursue in the world, with the world, and with each other. In the banking concept of education, knowledge is a gift bestowed by those who consider themselves knowledgeable upon those whom they consider to know nothing. Projecting an absolute ignorance onto others, a characteristic of the ideology of oppression, negates education and knowledge as processes of inquiry. The teacher presents himself to his students as their necessary opposite; by considering their ignorance absolute, he justifies his own existence. The students, alienated like the slave in the Hegelian dialectic, accept their ignorance as justifying the teachers existence -- but unlike the slave, they never discover that they educate the teacher. The raison d'etre of libertarian education, on the other hand, lies in its drive towards reconciliation. Education must begin with the solution of the teacher-student contradiction, by reconciling the poles of the contradiction so that both are simultaneously teachers and students. This solution is not (nor can it be) found in the banking concept. On the contrary, banking education maintains and even stimulates the contradiction through the following attitudes and practices, which mirror oppressive society as a whole: the teacher teaches and the students are taught; the teacher knows everything and the students know nothing; the teacher thinks and the students are thought about; the teacher talks and the students listen -- meekly; the teacher disciplines and the students are disciplined; the teacher chooses and enforces his choice, and the students comply; the teacher acts and the students have the illusion of acting through the action of the teacher; the teacher chooses the program content, and the students (who were not consulted) adapt to it; the teacher confuses the authority of knowledge with his or her own professional authority, which she and he sets in opposition to the freedom of the students; the teacher is the Subject of the learning process, while the pupils are mere objects. It is not surprising that the banking concept of education regards men as adaptable, manageable beings. The more students work at storing the deposits entrusted to them, the less they develop the critical consciousness which would result from their intervention in the world as transformers of that world. The more completely they accept the passive role imposed on them, the more they tend simply to adapt to the world as it is and to the fragmented view of reality deposited in them. The capability of banking education to minimize or annul the student's creative power and to stimulate their credulity serves the interests of the oppressors, who care neither to have the world revealed nor to see it transformed. The oppressors use their "humanitarianism" to preserve a profitable situation. Thus they react almost instinctively against any experiment in education which stimulates the critical faculties and is not content with a partial view of reality always seeks out the ties which link one point to another and one problem to another. Indeed, the interests of the oppressors lie in "changing the consciousness of the oppressed, not the situation which oppresses them," (1) for the more the oppressed can be led to adapt to that situation, the more easily they can be dominated. To achieve this the oppressors use the banking concept of education in conjunction with a paternalistic social action apparatus, within which the oppressed receive the euphemistic title of "welfare recipients." They are treated as individual cases, as marginal persons who deviate from the general configuration of a "good, organized and just" society. The oppressed are regarded as the pathology of the healthy society which must therefore adjust these "incompetent and lazy" folk to its own patterns by changing their mentality. These marginals need to be "integrated," "incorporated" into the healthy society that they have "forsaken." [Footnote #1: Simone de Beauvoir. La Pensee de Droite, Aujord'hui (Paris); ST, El Pensamiento politico de la Derecha (Buenos Aires, 1963), p. 34. The truth is, however, that the oppressed are not "marginals," are not living "outside" society. They have always been "inside" the structure which made them "beings for others." The solution is not to 'integrate" them into the structure of oppression, but to transform that structure so that they can become "beings for themselves." Such transformation, of course, would undermine the oppressors' purposes; hence their utilization of the banking concept of education to avoid the threat of student conscientizacao.

This article is from the man who created Freirean Pedagogy and he shows how it's not only lacking in critical thinking but it is also dehumanizing. It makes student brainwashed beings that are easily managed like cattle. The worse part is Americans believe in thinking this is ok because they were part of the same education system that teaches to make people cattle through the banking system.

For the sake of critical thinking skills, not turning the population into cattle and not allowing the dehumanization of our students I urge a neg vote.
Unibadger

Con

1st point: You didn't address the time issue at all. If there were to be about 25-30 students, how would any individual student learn at all? A discussion takes time and depth, which an hour class does not have. The teacher must split the discussion equally among students, or the teaching process would become extremely unfair, putting some students with a major advantage over others. The banking system also allows discussions, only outside of class where it doesn't interfere with learning. Please respond to this point.

2nd point: I assume that this article is extremely old (and it is, at 1970) and is thus not credible. That may have been what education was like then, but it is definitely not now. It says:
"The outstanding characteristic of this narrative education, then, is the sonority of words, not their transforming power. "Four times four is sixteen; the capital of Para is Belem." The student records, memorizes, and repeats these phrases without perceiving what four times four really means, or realizing the true significance of "capital" in the affirmation "the capital of Para is Belem," that is, what Belem means for Para and what Para means for Brazil. Narration (with the teacher as narrator) leads the students to memorize mechanically the narrated account. Worse yet, it turns them into "containers," into "receptacles" to be "filled" by the teachers."
This is most definitely false. Most classes you are REQUIRED to go in-depth, and understand the concepts to succeed. Say if you were in second grade and learning 4*4... only knowing that will not help you on the test. You have to understand multiplication to pass. To even go on to capitals, most education systems would go over what a capital actually is before going on to it. Most AP classes are described as "More than the regular class, will go more IN-DEPTH and will proceed faster." Do you think somebody could learn how to give proofs in geometry without learning the concept first? Not likely. Our education system today is most likely more in-depth than those of 1970. Understanding concepts most definitely does not make the students cattle, and also makes them independent thinkers.

Your article from the Huffington Post has a few problems as well. While it does prove there is no class for critical thinking, it says that the teachers very much do encourage it. The only reason it isn't taught is only because there is too much information to be taught in core classes. They say that critical thinking isn't used because "It is a rare high-school graduate who can pinpoint 20 different kinds of fallacies in a line of argumentation while reading or listening; who knows how to distinguish between fact and opinion, objective account and specious polemic; who can tell the difference between value judgments, explanatory theories, and metaphysical claims, and knows how these three kinds of statement can or cannot be proven or disproven; who can argue both sides of a question, anticipate objections, and rebut them; and who can undermine arguments in various ways." If freirean pedagogy is taught, who's to say they could do this as well? All of this is vocabulary, (also debate vocab, which is also a class taught in the same way and encourages critical thinking). If somebody took debate or a high english/literature class, they would also learn critical thinking. In fact, critical thinking is one of the main skills you develop in debate.

Critical thinking is encouraged and developed by students in the banking process from near necessity. The time frame for freirean is completely outrageous, and would destroy individual learning in the process. For these reasons, vote pro.
Debate Round No. 2
hwp460

Pro

I will cover the time argument(not covered due to lack of space in last speech) and, we need more critical thinking skills. I will also cover your dropped oppression argument.

1.Time Frame-Even if it would take more time, education would still have better quality. It's also not a one on one with every student. It's a class discussion of every issue. We teach a student how to think for themselves rather than give the correct answer. Plus, as I'll later prove, education is failing on critical thinking now, it can only go up, even with bad time frames. They aren't bad, however.

2.Critical Thinking-You said my argument from the seventies wasn't valid because it was old (which isn't a legitimate argument, especially when you have no evidence) but here is a newer source.
https://www.goalcast.com...
This is Neil Degrasse Tyson explaining how we have students memorize answers rather than teach them to reach the answer themselves. It shows we lost critical thinking for memorization. You argued debate and high-level English classes will give you the skills but neither of those is necessary so are invalid because could get no students possibly in the future.

3.Oppression-You never commented on the fact oppression of the mind exists and is being imposed and this will solve it. Just to reiterate (with newer evidence).

Critical pedagogy is key to solve oppression. The Arab Spring proves. Barmania 11
Dr. Sima Barmania (medical doctor from London with an Intercalated degree in Community health science and a Master"s in Public Health from The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine). "Why Paulo Friere"s "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" is just as relevant today as ever," The Independent. October 26th, 2011. http://blogs.independent.co.uk...
Frantz Fanon, Iconic psychiatrist and author of books such as "Wretched of the Earth", wrote that "literature increasingly involves itself in its only real task, which is to get society to reflect and mediate". Paulo Freire"s landmark book, "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" is a prime example of literature that makes one reflect, cogitate and ponder all at once. In addition, Freire"s "Pedagogy" is also the archetypal case in point of a book, which is just as relevant today as it was decades ago. Freire was a Brazilian educator, who grew up during the poverty of the Great Depression in the 1930s and published one of his seminal works "Pedagogy of the Oppressed", in English in 1970. Freire"s book, rooted in his experience of liberation in Brazil is equally apt in the context of the Arab Spring, and particularly after the death of Gaddafi last week. One of Freire"s central tenets was that "education is freedom" that leads toward true liberation and that the "banking" concept of education- where students are empty vessels to be filled, acts as an instrument of oppression. He called on the cultivation of a critical consciousness (conscientizacao), enabling those to reflect upon their own reality and thereby transform it. "How can the oppressed, as divided, unauthentic beings, participate in developing the pedagogy of their liberation" Freire asks? It is this concept of the oppressed initiating and participating in their own liberation, as was the case in the Arab Spring, which was central to Freire"s writing. Freire explains: "Revolution is born as a social entity within the oppressor society"Every entity develops (or is transformed within itself, through the interplay of its contradictions. External conditioners, while necessary, are effective only if they coincide with those potentialities". It is a sentiment shared by many involved in the Arab Revolution, including Ahmed Farid, an Egyptian lawyer and peace activist working in Alexandria, Egypt. Speaking with Farid he speaks optimistically and passionately: "For centuries the Arab countries lived in an automatic and dictatorial regime. People were yearning for justice and equality for democracy and freedoms but with no effective result UNTIL the revolution came. It was not a revolution of the hungry or the miserable, though lots of people were in need, but it was a revolution for dignity and self respect". Farid continues: "from Tunisia when a police woman slapped Mohamed Bo Azizi when he asked for his rights and he decided to commit a suicide then all the Tunisians went out from their homes and demonstrated against the regime and they succeeded. Then it [the revolution] came to Egypt and the regime said Egypt is not like Tunisia but the Egyptians made it, they made it in a peaceful and modern way that attracted the attention of the whole world. Freire also highlights the "culture of silence" and strategies that are enacted in order that oppression of the people is maintained. "Manipulation, sloganizing, depositing, regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are the components of the praxis of domination" Freire"s work, often cited in peace education discourses, also highlights the real potentiality of the oppressed becoming the oppressors, which seems particularly timely given the discovery of 53 bodies of executed Gaddafi loyalists, reported by Kim Sengupta. Freire"s words seem almost like a forewarning: "[Dehumanization of the oppressed] "is a distortion of being more fully human, sooner or later being less human leads the oppressed to struggle against those who made them so. In order for this struggle to have meaning, the oppressed must not, in seeking to regain their humanity, become in turn oppressors of the oppressors, but rather restorers of the humanity of both". Paulo Freire"s "Pedagogy of the oppressed" is timeless, as pertinent to the revolution in the Middle East now as to those in South America decades ago. Moreover, most importantly it makes one reflect and in Freire"s words it is this "reflection- true reflection which leads to action"

The oppressed can only be helped with Frierian Pedagogy. Oppressed is also more than race, religion, and gender. It includes the oppression of the mind that schools perpetuate and don't fix with Frierian Pedagogy.

So we can free our mind of oppression and develop critical thinking skills, vote neg.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by hwp460 4 months ago
hwp460
I'm sorry.
Posted by Unibadger 4 months ago
Unibadger
Crap. I couldn't access the internet...

RIP I guess this means you won.
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