The Instigator
proof317
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
45 Points

Restaurant bill's including automatic gratuity (tip)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/21/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,566 times Debate No: 2841
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (49)
Votes (16)

 

proof317

Pro

When someone goes out to eat at a restaurant usually the person waiting on them is making $2.13 per hour.

They rely solely on the customer's tip to servive.

If most restaurant's automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more, why not be universal and add it to all bills?

There needs to be some assurance for these people that at the end of the week, like the rest of working American's, that they can pay their bills.
Logical-Master

Con

Greetings.

I would like to thank my opponent for starting this debate and would like to thank the voters for reading and choosing to vote based on who makes the better argument. With that said, let us proceed.

First, the entire idea of tipping is basically an appeal to pity. Many consumer come into the restaurant thinking "Oh, he/she is only getting paid $2.13 per hour, so I think I'll show how good of a person I am by going out of my way to provide him/her with extra money." Unfortunately, the consumer fails to realize that consumers are the very reason tipping has become so mandated within our society. The REASON the employers even pay their employees that much is because they know a majority of the customers are going to fall for that guilt trap (or fall for some other superficial aspect) and pay 115-120% of their meal's price on average. However, if we (as the consumers) were to protest against this guilt trap, restaurants would have no choice but to start paying their employees minimum wage or more.

Furthermore, studies have shown that most customers don't even determine their tips based on the quality of the actual service.

New York Times: "Rather, customers are likely to tip more in response to servers touching them lightly and crouching next to the table to make conversation than to how often their water glass is refilled - in other words, customers tip more when they like the server, not when the service is good. (Mr. Lynn's studies also indicate that male customers increase their tips for female servers while female customers increase their tips for male servers.)" (1)

For the most part, these "workers" aren't really even earning most of their income. By the way, if you further read my cited article, you'll notice that 26 BILLION dollars goes into tipping every YEAR in the United States alone. That's a lot of money for shooting the breeze with customers, flirting, and being well groomed, don't you think? =D

My opponent makes the claim that most restaurants automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more. First, I would like him to back this up with credible statistics. Second, I would like to know whether or not he means that restaurants should make this mandatory for all parties of 8 or more, or merely parties in general. Some clarification during round 2 would be nice.

Finally, it is the restaurant employees who CHOOSE to work at restaurants; they come in knowing the gamble they are taking. We (as the consumers) should not be OBLIGATED to fall into the restaurant employer's traps created to swindle the consumers out of their money under the guise of "pity."

If a customer wishes to tip, that is fine. However, based on the information that I've presented, if a customer is FORCED to tip, it is unjust on the restaurants part.

In spite of the information I've presented, it is my opponent's job to prove that gratuity (tips) should become automatic. He has yet to do this and I assure you that he will not be able to do this in round 2 either.

Source:

1) http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate Round No. 1
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It's a shame my opponent was not able to continue this round. Please extend all of my arguments to round 2.
Debate Round No. 2
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It saddens me that my opponent could not continue this elaborate dance with words as dancing alone doesn't produce the kind of feeling which many enjoy. Alas, extend all of my arguments.

Bottom line: My opponent has provided you with a good enough reason as to why restaurant bill's should coerce automatic gratuity (tips). On the other hand, I've pointed out the errors behind the very ideals in tipping and have shown why the procedure should not be obligated. Thus, you should vote in favor of my case. However, I understand that many of you wish to treat this as a mere poll. You're free to do this, but considering the new format this website is insured, I doubt you'll be able to do this for long.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Hasta la vista, baby!
Debate Round No. 3
49 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HCPwns95 9 years ago
HCPwns95
THANK YOU someone made this debate.

Seriously, it's a TIP! Thats why they call it a TIP!
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
I don't know why you are either. If you have such a problem with communicating with someone who disagrees with you, go hide under a rock for all I care.

I am sure you fully read and understood my arguments, so you would know that I am obviously not following my own advice. I tip generously. I was simply stating how things SHOULD be. Geez, it really isn't that hard to understand. And I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that my views, which are shared by many, removes me from society.

What a load of hot air.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
I'm laughing at you goldspur, I began writing a comment, decided there is no point to it and suddenly just thought it was really funny that you actually think that. It's like you're not a member of society.

There is nothing else to be said. I would never associate with you in person so I don't know why I'm talking to you here.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
hahahahahahahahahahah . . . I'd like know to know that myself. :/
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
hahahahahahahahahahah.....wait, what are we laughing at?
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Artc,

I can ask to have that removed from my bill if I want to. It defeats the whole purpose of tipping when you set a mandatory limit. If I get minimum service the server gets minimum tip, $0.00. Enough said.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Okay, so when I add a grat to your bill it is listed on it. Does that make souch a big diffrenece to you?
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
"Oh and drop the act about working as a server, I just don't buy it."

Well, good for you. I have such a clear reson to lie about it right? What a tool.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
"The point is I don't do the bare minimum, I do my job exceedingly well and I deserve to be payed more than 3 dollars an hour for it."

Well, good for you. Most servers don't do more than they are required and therfore don't deserve a tip.

"It is and has been custom to tip appropriately forever.

Why do you have so much trouble wrapping your head around this concept?"

What concept? Charity? Yes, I guess giving handouts has been around forever, doesn't meant I have to give one just because someone walked a plate to my table.

"Stop calling it a handout, tipping servers at a restaurant is not a handout. It's paying for a service. You seem to have some trouble with this.If you dodn't intend to pay for things you want then you can't have them, it's called stealing dumba**."

You seem to be the only one having problems understanding the way the world works. I come to a resteraunt and should only have to pay what is on my bill(the piece of paper that says how much I pay for services rendered), if the server does a great job then I have the option to tip if I deem appropriate. You say it is stealing if I don't tip, yet I bet you wouldn't call the police because I have not committed a crime.

"Oh and I get paid fantastically at my job, mostly because the people who come into my restaurant are smart enough to realize how the world works and they PAY for the experience of going out to eat and being waited on."

Maybe if you were SMART enough to read my other comments you would see that I also tip generously. I just feel that tipping has lost its meaning. Most servers expect a tip just for doing there job which is not how tipping was meant to be. Get it!?!

"I don't know what the fu** Hardee's is, some redneck hole in the wall I'll assume."

It is like Carl JR., they have scrumptious burgers. Not even close to being "some redneck whole in the wall, as you so eloquently put it.
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
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proof317Logical-MasterTied
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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