The Instigator
proof317
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
45 Points

Restaurant bill's including automatic gratuity (tip)

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Started: 2/21/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,057 times Debate No: 2841
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (49)
Votes (16)

 

proof317

Pro

When someone goes out to eat at a restaurant usually the person waiting on them is making $2.13 per hour.

They rely solely on the customer's tip to servive.

If most restaurant's automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more, why not be universal and add it to all bills?

There needs to be some assurance for these people that at the end of the week, like the rest of working American's, that they can pay their bills.
Logical-Master

Con

Greetings.

I would like to thank my opponent for starting this debate and would like to thank the voters for reading and choosing to vote based on who makes the better argument. With that said, let us proceed.

First, the entire idea of tipping is basically an appeal to pity. Many consumer come into the restaurant thinking "Oh, he/she is only getting paid $2.13 per hour, so I think I'll show how good of a person I am by going out of my way to provide him/her with extra money." Unfortunately, the consumer fails to realize that consumers are the very reason tipping has become so mandated within our society. The REASON the employers even pay their employees that much is because they know a majority of the customers are going to fall for that guilt trap (or fall for some other superficial aspect) and pay 115-120% of their meal's price on average. However, if we (as the consumers) were to protest against this guilt trap, restaurants would have no choice but to start paying their employees minimum wage or more.

Furthermore, studies have shown that most customers don't even determine their tips based on the quality of the actual service.

New York Times: "Rather, customers are likely to tip more in response to servers touching them lightly and crouching next to the table to make conversation than to how often their water glass is refilled - in other words, customers tip more when they like the server, not when the service is good. (Mr. Lynn's studies also indicate that male customers increase their tips for female servers while female customers increase their tips for male servers.)" (1)

For the most part, these "workers" aren't really even earning most of their income. By the way, if you further read my cited article, you'll notice that 26 BILLION dollars goes into tipping every YEAR in the United States alone. That's a lot of money for shooting the breeze with customers, flirting, and being well groomed, don't you think? =D

My opponent makes the claim that most restaurants automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more. First, I would like him to back this up with credible statistics. Second, I would like to know whether or not he means that restaurants should make this mandatory for all parties of 8 or more, or merely parties in general. Some clarification during round 2 would be nice.

Finally, it is the restaurant employees who CHOOSE to work at restaurants; they come in knowing the gamble they are taking. We (as the consumers) should not be OBLIGATED to fall into the restaurant employer's traps created to swindle the consumers out of their money under the guise of "pity."

If a customer wishes to tip, that is fine. However, based on the information that I've presented, if a customer is FORCED to tip, it is unjust on the restaurants part.

In spite of the information I've presented, it is my opponent's job to prove that gratuity (tips) should become automatic. He has yet to do this and I assure you that he will not be able to do this in round 2 either.

Source:

1) http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate Round No. 1
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It's a shame my opponent was not able to continue this round. Please extend all of my arguments to round 2.
Debate Round No. 2
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It saddens me that my opponent could not continue this elaborate dance with words as dancing alone doesn't produce the kind of feeling which many enjoy. Alas, extend all of my arguments.

Bottom line: My opponent has provided you with a good enough reason as to why restaurant bill's should coerce automatic gratuity (tips). On the other hand, I've pointed out the errors behind the very ideals in tipping and have shown why the procedure should not be obligated. Thus, you should vote in favor of my case. However, I understand that many of you wish to treat this as a mere poll. You're free to do this, but considering the new format this website is insured, I doubt you'll be able to do this for long.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Hasta la vista, baby!
Debate Round No. 3
49 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by artC 5 years ago
artC
The point is I don't do the bare minimum, I do my job exceedingly well and I deserve to be payed more than 3 dollars an hour for it. It is and has been custom to tip appropriately forever.

Why do you have so much trouble wrapping your head around this concept?

Stop calling it a handout, tipping servers at a restaurant is not a handout. It's paying for a service. You seem to have some trouble with this. If you dodn't intend to pay for things you want then you can't have them, it's called stealing dumba**.

I choose to work in a restaurant for many reasons, one of them being, a flexible work schedule, since I go to school and have another job.

Oh and I get paid fantastically at my job, mostly because the people who come into my restaurant are smart enough to realize how the world works and they PAY for the experience of going out to eat and being waited on.

I don't know what the fu** Hardee's is, some redneck hole in the wall I'll assume.

Oh and drop the act about working as a server, I just don't buy it.
Posted by goldspurs 5 years ago
goldspurs
"I've concluded that you're either A) too stupid or B) too redneck, to understand this concept."

Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?

"The matter isn't how hard you work for anything, it's the job that you do."

How hard you work DOES matter. If you do the bare minimum you DON'T deserve extra.

"You're damn right I expect someone to pay me for serving them, not only that, but I expect 20%, and I'll be hella pissed if I don't get it."

The arrogance is amazing. To think you actually deserve a hand out. You SHOULD be pissed at your employer for not paying you a fair amount. When I starting out as a server I told my boss that I would only work for them if I received atleast minimum wage. I agreed to do a little more than most servers, but I didn't want to depend on a handout from someone to get paid.

" I don't put up with 25 people's bull at once to earn 3 dollars an hour."

Well, guess who you blame for only working for 3 dollars an hour? Thats right, YOU! Go work somewhere else if you don't agree with what you are being paid. It is a free country. Do I get a tip for helping with that?

"If you actually believe that you're not being provided with a service then you should do all the servers in the world a favor and don't go out to eat, or stick with Mickey D's."

Awwww, no Hardees? They are so much better than McDonalds. You bring a PLATE to a table and refill my drink (sometimes, I have sat for 20 minutes without a refill), what is so difficult about your job that requires myself to make up what you don't get paid from your employer?
Posted by artC 5 years ago
artC
I've concluded that you're either A) too stupid or B) too redneck, to understand this concept.

The matter isn't how hard you work for anything, it's the job that you do. You're damn right I expect someone to pay me for serving them, not only that, but I expect 20%, and I'll be hella pissed if I don't get it.

I don't put up with 25 people's bull at once to earn 3 dollars an hour.

If you actually believe that you're not being provided with a service then you should do all the servers in the world a favor and don't go out to eat, or stick with Mickey D's.
Posted by goldspurs 5 years ago
goldspurs
"Servers don't get paid by restaurants to serve food in most staes. We get paid by our employer to SELL their food. We are then paid by customers for our SERVICE."

I have worked in the service industry before so don't feed me this crap. You claim you are paid by the customer. If this is true why don't I receive a bill for your "services"? You don't deserve a handout for doing YOUR JOB, that is the bottom line.

"Just because this pay depends on service doesn't mean you don't have to pay at all, or be an a** and not pay enough."

This line really pissed me off. This is whats wrong with the service industry. They think you are an a** if they don't automatically get a tip for doing their job. What a load of s***. There are plenty of other jobs people depend on that are alot harder than yours and they don't receive a tip. Try working on an oil rig for a week and see how you like it.

"So to sum it up, YOU pay for me to do most of my job, my employer only pays me to sell their food. Got it?"

No, I don't. Your employer is responsible for ensuring you receive appropriate pay, not me. The menu sells the food, not you.
Posted by artC 5 years ago
artC
I mean that the pay depends on QUALITY OF service.
Posted by artC 5 years ago
artC
brittwaller- I had to take a break from people like our buddy bsergent. I come on when I see interesting debates.

goldspur- when was it ever a question of being forced into something. I'm only entitled to an opinion when I'm forced to do something?

Here's a litte fact you obviously don't know. Servers don't get paid by restaurants to serve food in most staes. We get paid by our employer to SELL their food. We are then paid by customers for our SERVICE. When you go to a restaurant, you're not just buying food, you're buying a service so you have to pay for that service. Just because this pay depends on service doesn't mean you don't have to pay at all, or be an a** and not pay enough.

So to sum it up, YOU pay for me to do most of my job, my employer only pays me to sell their food. Got it?

Secondly, I don't get off on screwing businesses, I just don't feel that badly about it. It has nothing to do with jealousy, that's stupid. It has to do with the fact that big businesses don't care whether they tipped a server 40% or 20%, they never even see the difference.

I hate this place for censoring so god dam much
Posted by brittwaller 5 years ago
brittwaller
I understand, goldspurs. Lobsterfest - I cooked at Red Lobster for 6 years. Small world. Peace.
Posted by John_Quincy_Adams 5 years ago
John_Quincy_Adams
I think that if servers were getting an automatic grat every time the quality of service would take a dip. There would be little to no incentive to go out of your way for anyone since you're getting the cash regardless. I work in the food service slave trade ERRRR food service industry and when I get great service I'm happy and tip up to 40% and I wouldn't want to see a decline in that.

Now, where real concerns about the ridiculousness of tipping needs to be centered is bartenders and people who fill your cup with coffee-ERRRRR baristas. Sure, some bartenders break their asses to work the bar, but the amount of money I've seen slow lazy bartenders (esppecially ones with nice toddies) is just ridiculous. Although thats a differnt topic.
Posted by goldspurs 5 years ago
goldspurs
Brittwaller,

Not exactly. If you read my other comment you will see I give tips. Now whether I do tonight we I go to Lobsterfest could be a diffrent story. Especially after seeing how some servers think. It just chapped my a** that she thinks she is entitled to the tip for just doing her job.
Posted by brittwaller 5 years ago
brittwaller
Another Mr. Pink, goldspurs?

I'm not touching this again, lest I become involved in another flame war.

Hadn't seen you around in a while, artC.

Take it easy, guys.

Britt
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