The Instigator
proof317
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
45 Points

Restaurant bill's including automatic gratuity (tip)

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Started: 2/21/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,062 times Debate No: 2841
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (49)
Votes (16)

 

proof317

Pro

When someone goes out to eat at a restaurant usually the person waiting on them is making $2.13 per hour.

They rely solely on the customer's tip to servive.

If most restaurant's automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more, why not be universal and add it to all bills?

There needs to be some assurance for these people that at the end of the week, like the rest of working American's, that they can pay their bills.
Logical-Master

Con

Greetings.

I would like to thank my opponent for starting this debate and would like to thank the voters for reading and choosing to vote based on who makes the better argument. With that said, let us proceed.

First, the entire idea of tipping is basically an appeal to pity. Many consumer come into the restaurant thinking "Oh, he/she is only getting paid $2.13 per hour, so I think I'll show how good of a person I am by going out of my way to provide him/her with extra money." Unfortunately, the consumer fails to realize that consumers are the very reason tipping has become so mandated within our society. The REASON the employers even pay their employees that much is because they know a majority of the customers are going to fall for that guilt trap (or fall for some other superficial aspect) and pay 115-120% of their meal's price on average. However, if we (as the consumers) were to protest against this guilt trap, restaurants would have no choice but to start paying their employees minimum wage or more.

Furthermore, studies have shown that most customers don't even determine their tips based on the quality of the actual service.

New York Times: "Rather, customers are likely to tip more in response to servers touching them lightly and crouching next to the table to make conversation than to how often their water glass is refilled - in other words, customers tip more when they like the server, not when the service is good. (Mr. Lynn's studies also indicate that male customers increase their tips for female servers while female customers increase their tips for male servers.)" (1)

For the most part, these "workers" aren't really even earning most of their income. By the way, if you further read my cited article, you'll notice that 26 BILLION dollars goes into tipping every YEAR in the United States alone. That's a lot of money for shooting the breeze with customers, flirting, and being well groomed, don't you think? =D

My opponent makes the claim that most restaurants automatically add a 15-20% tip to parties of 8 or more. First, I would like him to back this up with credible statistics. Second, I would like to know whether or not he means that restaurants should make this mandatory for all parties of 8 or more, or merely parties in general. Some clarification during round 2 would be nice.

Finally, it is the restaurant employees who CHOOSE to work at restaurants; they come in knowing the gamble they are taking. We (as the consumers) should not be OBLIGATED to fall into the restaurant employer's traps created to swindle the consumers out of their money under the guise of "pity."

If a customer wishes to tip, that is fine. However, based on the information that I've presented, if a customer is FORCED to tip, it is unjust on the restaurants part.

In spite of the information I've presented, it is my opponent's job to prove that gratuity (tips) should become automatic. He has yet to do this and I assure you that he will not be able to do this in round 2 either.

Source:

1) http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate Round No. 1
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It's a shame my opponent was not able to continue this round. Please extend all of my arguments to round 2.
Debate Round No. 2
proof317

Pro

proof317 forfeited this round.
Logical-Master

Con

It saddens me that my opponent could not continue this elaborate dance with words as dancing alone doesn't produce the kind of feeling which many enjoy. Alas, extend all of my arguments.

Bottom line: My opponent has provided you with a good enough reason as to why restaurant bill's should coerce automatic gratuity (tips). On the other hand, I've pointed out the errors behind the very ideals in tipping and have shown why the procedure should not be obligated. Thus, you should vote in favor of my case. However, I understand that many of you wish to treat this as a mere poll. You're free to do this, but considering the new format this website is insured, I doubt you'll be able to do this for long.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Hasta la vista, baby!
Debate Round No. 3
49 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 41 through 49 records.
Posted by proof317 5 years ago
proof317
Not a problem, as you can tell I'm new to this site. A friend told me about it. Once this goes up for vote, how long does it stay votable.
Posted by Logical-Master 5 years ago
Logical-Master
Alright, I'm not sure if I can respond tonight, so you may have to wait until tomorrow.
Posted by proof317 5 years ago
proof317
Yes, to all bills at a restaurant.
Posted by bluejoewho 5 years ago
bluejoewho
i think this should be a good debate.
Posted by Logical-Master 5 years ago
Logical-Master
Wait, just to be sure, you're advocating gratuity, correct?
Posted by proof317 5 years ago
proof317
In reality, my whole point of this debate was to bring light to the service industry. They are grossly underpaid, and someone needs to bring this to light.
Posted by massvideogamer 5 years ago
massvideogamer
um sweaty, they reason why Logical wins debates isnt because he cheats, its because it is good at debating and doesnt debate about Chickens and Butts
Posted by Logical-Master 5 years ago
Logical-Master
*sigh* I'm not even going to bother.

Note to all users: Don't feed the trolls.
Posted by sweatycreases 5 years ago
sweatycreases
HEY PROOF, YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT KLEPTIN AND LOGICAL MASTER ARE THE SAME PERSON, SO YOU HAVE LESS OF A CHANCE TO WIN THIS DEBATE WHEN HE VOTES SEVERAL TIMES FOR HIMSELF. I CONTACTED THE SITE ADMINISTRATORS ABOUT THIS AND THIS WAS THEIR REPLY:

Hi Sweaty,

After doing some investigation I was unable to confirm your hypothesis.
I
will continue to look into the matter. Having multiple accounts on
Debate.org is against the terms of service and warrants account
closure.

Regards,

Webmaster
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 3 years ago
Tatarize
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by JBlake 4 years ago
JBlake
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Robert_Santurri 4 years ago
Robert_Santurri
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by beem0r 5 years ago
beem0r
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by jiffy 5 years ago
jiffy
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by HCPwns95 5 years ago
HCPwns95
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by dairygirl4u2c 5 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by John_Quincy_Adams 5 years ago
John_Quincy_Adams
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by goldspurs 5 years ago
goldspurs
proof317Logical-MasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03