The Instigator
Pro (for)
21 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Revolutionary/Counter Revolutionary vs Loyalist Music

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/2/2014 Category: Music
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,337 times Debate No: 58474
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (75)
Votes (3)




This debate will be about revolutionary/counter revolutionary (non government movements) vs loyalist movement. All songs must be connected to a real war or event where revolution or civil strife took place. For example, you can't use "God Bless America" as a loyalist song, because it wasn't produced for a specific conflict. This is a "who's was better" debate. Some revolutions are undertaken by governments. This will be considered revolution and not loyalist music (cultural/cuban revolution)

Good luck, and there will be 4 rounds. Con are loyalists.
First Round is acceptance



THE REBELS (1778) (sung to the tune: Black Joak) (Originally published in the Pennsylvania Ledger, 1778)Lyrics: Captain Smyth, Simcoe's Queen's Rangers.

Ye brave honest subjects who dare to be loyal,
And have stood the brunt of every trial,
Of hunting shirts and rifle guns;
Come listen awhile and I'll tell you a song;
I'll show you those Yankees are all in the wrong,
Who, with blustering look and most awkward gait,
'Gainst their lawful sovereign dare for to prate,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.

The arch-rebels, barefooted tatterdemalions,
In baseness exceed all other rebellions,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns:
To rend the empire, the most infamous lies,
Their mock-patriot Congress, do always devise;
Independence, like the first rebels, they claim,
But their plots will be damned in the annals of fame,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.

Forgetting the mercies of Great Britain's King,
Who saved their forefathers' necks from the string,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns,
They renounce all allegiance and take up their arms,
Assemble together like hornets in swarms,
So dirty their backs, and so wretched their show,
That carrion-crow follows wherever they go,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.

With loud peels of laughter, you sides, sirs, would crack,
To see General Convict and Colonel Shoe-Black,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.
See cobblers and quacks, rebel priests and the like,
Pettifoggers and barbers, with sword and with pike,
All strutting the standard of Satan beside,
And honest names using, their black deeds to hide,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.

This perjured banditti, now ruin this land,
And o'er its poor people claim lawless command,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.
Their pasteboard dollars prove a common curse,
They don't chink like silver and gold in our purse,
With nothing their leaders have paid their debts off,
Their honor's, dishonor, and justice they scoff,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.

For one lawful ruler, many tyrants we've got,
Who force young and old to their wars, to be shot,
With their hunting shirts and rifle guns.
Our good King, God speed him! never used men so,
We then could speak, act, and like freemen could go,
But committees enslave us, our liberty's gone,
Our trade and church murdered; our country's undone,
By hunting shirts and rifle guns.

Come take up you glasses, each true loyal heart,
And may every rebel meet his due dessert,
With his hunting shirt and rifle gun.
May Congress, Conventions, those damned inquisitions,
Be fed with hot sulphur from Lucifer's kitchens,
May commerce and peace again be restored,
And Americans own their true sovereign lord,
Then oblivion to shirts and rifle guns.
Debate Round No. 1



a person who rises in opposition or armed resistance against an established government or ruler.

* The song Yankee Doodle Dandy was created by British soldiers to Demean the "Yankees", although the rebels embraced the song rather than let the Brits use it against them, which is why it's a national song and the state song of Virginia. Hence, why it's a rebel song



Hold up, my opponent can't just post 11 videos (which I don't even know how to do) in a single round.... These 11 songs have nothing to do with Yankee Doodle Dandy, expect the first video. Either way, you can't count Yankee Doodle Dandy as a rebel song becaue it isn't, in fact the British used the tune to insult Americans "before" the Revolutionary War, therefore it's a Loyalist song. Some may say it's neither. But what I do know for a fact is that Yankee Doodle Dandy is not a rebel song, you cannot claim it, even if the rebels embraced the song, sorry. Here's proof of that: Moving on though....

The PAUSING AMERICAN LOYALIST: "Although this isn't a song but rather a poem based on Hamlet's 'To be or not to be' speech, it depicts the very difficult position of the loyalist when pressured by fellow colonists to sign an oath of fidelity to the Continental Congress. As it shows, some became very reluctant 'rebels'." Middlesex Journal, January 30, 1776.

To sign, or not to sign? That is the question.
Whether 'twere better for an honest man
To sign, and so be safe; or to resolve,
Betide what will, against associations,
And, by retreating, shun them. To fly - I reck
Not where: And, by that flight, t' escape
Feathers and tar, and thousand other ills
That loyalty is heir to: 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To fly -- to want --
To want? Perchance to starve: Ay, there's the rub!
For, in that chance of want, what ills may come
To patriot rage, when I have left my all --
Must give me pause: -- There's the respect
That makes us trim, and bow to men we hate.
For, who would bear th' indignities o' th' times,
Congress decrees, and wild convention plans,
The laws controll'd, and inj'ries unredressed,
The insolence of knaves, and thousand wrongs
Which patient liege men from vile rebels take,
When he, sans doubt, might certain safety find,
Only by flying? Who would bend to fools,
And truckle thus to mad, mob-chosen upstarts,
But that the dread of something after flight
(In that blest country, where, yet, no moneyless
Poor wight can live) puzzles the will,
And makes ten thousands rather sign -- and eat,
Than fly -- to starve on loyalty. --
Thus, dread of want makes rebels of us all:
And thus the native hue of loyalty
Is sicklied o'er with a pale cast of trimming;
And enterprises of great pith and virtue,
But unsupported, turn their streams away,
And never come to action.
Debate Round No. 2



* Debated on whether I should of included the Che Guevara one, but he's became a symbol of international struggle, so I think it qualifies. Not to mention he was connected to a specific movement in Colombia, so it warrants counting.



My opponent is continuing to post more than one song per round, he is taking an unfair advantage of this debate, he is cheating as this is supposed to be a "who's was better" debate, unlike him I am being fair with this debate. My opponent has also failed to state why he is not disputing my claim of Yankee Doodle Dandy not being a rebel soung. He is posting random YouTube videos in a single round, unlike me who is providing the lyrics and giving a brief background of my loyalist songs. I ask for my opponent to be please be fair and post one song, including its lyrics, per round. After all, this is "who's better" debate and it's better to be fair and not to use random videos. Not only that, but it's also a bit confusing considering it goes from Che Guevara to the Russian Revolution. That's being irrelevant because the three videos can't connect to my opponent's first video he provided. Moving on, I guess....

The American Times (Odell)

When Faction, pois'nous as the scorpion's sting,
Infects the people and insults the King;
When foul Sedition skulks no more concealed,
But grasps the sword and rushes to the field;
When Justice, Law, and Truth are in disgrace,
And Treason, Fraud, and Murder fill their place;
Smarting beneath accumulated woes,
Shall we not dare the tyrants to expose?

Bad are the Times, almost too bad to paint;
The whole head sickens, the whole heart is faint;
The State is rotten, rotten to the core,
'Tis all one bruize, one putrefying sore.

Hear thy indictment, Washington, at large;
Attend and listen to the solemn charge;
Thou hast supported an atrocious cause
Against thy King, thy Country, and the laws;
Committed perjury, encourag'd lies,
Forced conscience, broken the most sacred ties;
Myriads of wives and fathers at thy hand
Their slaughter'd husbands, slaughter'd sons demand;
That pastures hear no more the lowing kine,--
That towns are desolate, all -- all is thine.

I swear by Him, who rules the earth and sky,
The dread event shall equally apply;
That Clinton's warfare is the war of God,
And Washington shall feel the vengeful rod.

O! may that hour be soon! for pity's sake,
Genius of Britain, from thy slumber wake,
Too long has mercy spoke, but spoke in vain;
Let justice now in awful terror reign.
Debate Round No. 3


Addressing Accusations of Cheating

There is no rule that you can't post more than one song per round. My opponent does point out a spelling error, but it's referring to singular possession and not amount of songs. And I was referring to rounds as a total. Whose were better. I forewarned you of this before, and you still continued to post only one song. The first round doesn't count, as you were supposed to acccept. Meaning you saw me put more than one song, yet you refused to do it. Unless there is a rule that I'm not allowed to post more than one song, on my debate, which technically, you were supposed to be blocked from accepting, is outrageous. I was planning on multi song rounds way before you decided to troll this debate. My advice, is to post more than one song next round to recover all the ones I already made.


* For this round, I decided to go with Ay Carmela. This was the third song I debated including in this debate. It was used as a loyalist and a rebel song. I wouldn't of used it if it weren't for its popularity taking hold when Franco already had won the war and took most of Spain. I equated it with the Cuban Revolution. Castro took power, but the old millitary just splintered into dissident factions. They retained the same war songs. IDK, don't count it if you don't want to.



I would just like to point out the recent attack my opponent gave me when I tried to explain to him that he isn't being fair and is cheating:

Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial
ChosenWolff, I have done no such thing. You took a fun debate, and you cheated, which created drama, from me because you are not playing fair.

Posted by ChosenWolff
You took a fun debate, and brought accusations of cheating, drama, trolliness, and your overall weirdness to make it anything but. Now the only reason I continue commenting, is because this debate gets front page at 80.

Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial
Really? ChosenWolff? Is this really necessary? Can't we just get along and act mature?

Posted by ChosenWolff
Cut it out troll

Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial
ChosenWolff, This is a debate. And a troll means someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community. Am I doing that? No. Now stop trying to insult me because I have not once been disrespectful to you.

Posted by ChosenWolff
Stop being a troll Molloy
Posted by ChosenWolff
Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial
LogicalLunatic, Good God no, I love Doctor Who, but I would never want any country to have that theme... Lol as for eating fish and chips, I hate that to so no worries. And ChosenWolff, I'm not being unfair, it's you who is posting random videos in a single round..... That's just confusing and not relevant.


And I would like to point out that cheating means to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. This is exactly what my opponent did, unlike me who played fair and posted one song per round, giving the lyrics, and as well giving a brief background of my song. My opponent has insulted me, and I would just like to point out that I'm remaining respectful. My opponent has also failed to argue the fact that Yankee Doodle Dandy is not a rebel song, maybe for the British, but not from the colonists. Also my opponent has again ignored my request and contintued to play unfair...... Moving on....

The Congress (1776)

Ye, Tories all rejoice and sing, success to George our gracious King.
The faithful subjects tribute bring, and execrate the Congress.

These hardy knaves and stupid fools, some apish and pragmatic mules,
Some servile acquiescing tools, These compose the Congress.

Then Jove resolve to send a curse, and all the woes of life rehearse
Not plague, not famine, but much worse, He cursed us with a Congress.

Then peace forsook this hopeless shore, Then cannons blazed with horrid roar,
We hear of blood, death, wounds, and gore, The offspring of the Congress.

Prepare, prepare, my friends prepare, For scenes of blood, the field of war
To royal standard we'll repair, And curse the haughty Congress.

Huzza! Huzza! And thrice Huzza! Return peace, harmony, and law!
Restore such times as once we saw, And bid adieu to Congress.

Audience, personaly I think I did good remaining my calm and playing fair. But if you think I don't deserve to win, you are free to vote against me. I would just like to take this moment to thank Pro for this debate. We hope everyone enjoyed as well.
Debate Round No. 4
75 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial 2 years ago
I'm glad you are having a good day today.
Posted by ChosenWolff 2 years ago
Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial 2 years ago
I accept defeat on this debate. I don't necessarily agree how this debate was brought up and all that, but it's over with and would just like to thank Con for this debate.
Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial 2 years ago
I have talked to Playallin, she has adviced me to leave but I have decided to not leave. At the moment she says she will not continue with, but I on the other hand will. I have not plagiarized, I have not votebombed, I have not created any fake accounts. This account right here is the only account I signed up for, any other accounts are not from me. I will give this site a last chance and try to reach out to Airmax once again. I dismiss the recent slander that was aimed at me as false. Please disregard the previous link. I also dismiss the "restraining order" on the grounds of it having no effect and legal standing.
Posted by rings48 2 years ago
I am going to agree with a few of the other people, this debate was somewhat pointless because all one did was post videos while the other posted lyrics with an explanation.

I am not going to blame one on the whole multi-song thing. Both of yall are in the wrong with it. Wolf should have started doing one, royalist could have done multi-songs but didnt.

ChosenWolff should have at least stated/explained his videos. Its like going to a creationism debate and just posting tons of verses.

RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial should have posted videos. Its like going to a creationism debate and not using bible verses.
Posted by ESocialBookworm 2 years ago
I could've sworn I voted on this... 0.0
Posted by RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial 2 years ago
Raymond_Reddington: "Pro's songs were actually very good, the lyrics from RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial were interesting, but I felt somewhat did not accomplish the purpose of a song debate. Sound would have been way better." Finally, a valid excuse to vote against me. Thank you sir.
Posted by Playallin 2 years ago
I mean per round.* Sorry.
Posted by Playallin 2 years ago
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: This is a no brainer really and honestly a debate that could never have been won by Con as the odds are stacked for Pro. Pro had a lot more to choose from and they included some rousing tunes. Additionally, I think it would have helped Con to include some videos with the songs, this actually gives a real feeling of the emotions associated with the song. Lastly, Cons accusations were unfounded and should be enough to lose the debate on its own never mind an inferior argument.
Vote Placed by Raymond_Reddington 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's songs were actually very good, the lyrics from RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial were interesting, but I felt somewhat did not accomplish the purpose of a song debate. Sound would have been way better.
Vote Placed by XLAV 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had better music and I can hear it too, unlike Con's. Con was being annoying and kept on whining that Pro cheated. Obviously, there is no rule about posting only one song per round.