Riches can not please man
Welcome to DDO new meber glad to be in one of your first debates. do note you set the rounds in the debate to five and the debate time period is 3 days to post responses. that means it should be easy to to post you round on time but it could drag the debate out for a while, like weeks even depending on how soon you get what round in on time.
So if you should start to consider you are bored with this website or this debate remember your honor is at stake to finish what you started. Jesus would have you keep your commitments to this debate with me and do your best to not forfiet any rounds. the time for you to choose to quite should be after the debate is over in the voting period but not while it is going on. if you absolutely must forfiet a round or it beyond your control please give the courtesy of notifying me what happened or at the least that you are sorry but still acknoweldge the debate goes on. This is a courtesy many brand new members for some reason do not give often but should.
That out of the way I do hope you do chose to stay on this website after this debate as it really is a great website well worth sticking with, I look foward to this debate with you and seeing just how deep you can go with this subject.
To Begin this debate.....
The resolution does not specify that 'Riches not please men without God' but rather just 'Riches do not please men'
That said, the question of wether Riches please men who do have the lord in there life is covered under that too.
So while you do need Jesus to have real Joy, is it realy fair to say that afterword none comes from your welth at all?
1) with greater welth I would not be plauged with worries about the state of the economy as my finances are securely not at jepardy, and thus my life in a fiscal stable order
2) with greater welth my dreams and ambitions would be closer at hand and in my reach to just go out and do as lack of funds is often what is an obstical in whatever it is we think god put us on earth to persue. perhaps my dream could be to become a Senator, running for office takes a lot of cash to risk. perhaps I have dreams to start a busness, that takes cash to start. perhaps I have dreams of getting all the scouts in my troop the chance to go to camp, with greater welth I could just annually pay for there trips rather than have to raise the funds for it all the time at other peoples charity.
If I want to do something, having the money to do is often what stops me from doing, always having the money to do whatever I want would be so freeing, its hard to think that would not cause me to be happy.
3) with greater welth any relationships I would get in in the future would be more secure and last longer. Its a well documented fact that the joy between new married couples starts to go away into angry fights with money problems http://www.daveramsey.com... If I had money to just burn though I could easyiely shower my future girlfriend with gifts making her happy thus making me happy.
for purposes of this debate I define 'having riches' as having Mitt Romenys kind of cash. interesting to note if you google images of Mitt Romeny I cant find any pitchers of him where he is not relitively happy. and why would he not be, he has massive welth, secruity, a wife, a faith that wouldnt frown on him having more wives if he wanted some, he has kids, grandkids, prestige.
In general though I think this debate could continue just the same if we though of 'riches' in a broader term that includes things like famely, a loving spouse, and fame and power. They are a kind of 'riches' that I know fits with the spirit of the point of the debate I know my oppoenents wants to have, and I will argue with that definition of riches if my opponent wants to, I know I kind of want to.
And I'm not saying a family and children and grandparents, or a wife/husband. We are happy because of those things because God gives them to us happily. God wants us to be happy, but we can not be truly happy without us using our goods and gift for the good reasons. Like you don't have to be a Christian to have those gifts, God gives them to everyone. But we need to use them the right way, but God still gives us things hoping that we may learn to be happy and thankful for what we get, if it's something we like or don't like. And we should use these gifts to our best ability.
And I know some people that are famous, not all of them are happy, yet they have a big house, lots of riches, and maybe a wife/husband. But they still feel empty inside, because usually God is not in there heart, which makes them feel as happy as they could be. And I'm not saying all famous people are really depressed and not happy, because i know some are. And I just hope this is not going to be an argument, I hope it's just a discussion or a conversation.
For future occasions you should want to start discussions rather than strait up debates, click the top of the web page where it says ‘Forums’ then click on forum that fits what you want to discuss (in this case ‘Religion’) then click ‘Start a new thread’. What you did here was click ‘Start a new Debate’ on the opening page. That will cause this ‘discussion’ to be judged by readers and voted on for sources, spelling, arguments, and conduct. It means the ‘discussion’ comes to a default close after whatever rounds you set.
In the forums these restrictions do not exist, character limit is always eight thousand and you will not have an ‘opponent’ who will debate you for the voting audience that will read this debate when its finished and up on the front page.
Since you are new to the sight I will be compliant with you wish to just discuss this however that’s going to change much of what I say because I don’t want to corrupt you with my playing devils advocate for the sake of debate since this is going to be a discussion.
However now thinking about what I seriously want to say on this subject I don’t think I really end up parting from my end of the resolution to say riches cannot please men (without god). Those without God spend there whole lives chasing worldly pleasures that are never quite enough.
Men can experience basic pleasure without god. But these pleasures are not ensured to last long, and they are not as deep as the peace and joy that comes with knowing Christ.
I like to compare it to like bonfires and embers. Before you know God, before your saved, before you commit yourself to keep Gods laws, Satan tries to steer us away from God with worldly pleasures. Think of these things like embers and us as beings trying to get warm. When all the warmth we have ever know are embers, to our perspective we would look at it like it’s a great fire to gather round and get warm. But really they do not provide us much and we have to clutch so hard to them that our skin may get burned from the direct contact.
But what we get when we turn to God, that puts to shame anything we thought we were getting from the embers, it is like a bonfire.
With God we can feel real Joy
With God we can feel real peace
With God we can feel real righteous anger
C.S. Lewis once compared Lust to a week whimpering lizard who once completely killed made way for a great stallion of true desire for another.
God takes the pleasures we thought we liked so well before we knew and amplifies them once we learn to truly let go of them and give it all up to him in humble submission.
An example with lust, whereas a world chaser would have been consumed with cycling through various girlfriends or perhaps far worse addicted to what he can look up on the internet. Once we are saved we can still chase after the same lust we did before. But once we learn to submit to our new savior, we let those things go and follow his commands. We settle down with a spouse and we devote ourselves just to her, if we make sure she shares with none other than god, then a love unlike any other comes from that.
In the case of this debates/discussions topic, Riches, before as a world chaser perhaps we were able to be proud of ourselves for what we stockpiled. And we can be happy from things we might buy with our wealth. Maybe we could even be giving to charities and feel good about ourselves for that.
But once we have God in our lives, and we stop chasing after the worldly pursuit of just stockpiling our money for the sake of stockpiling it, chasing after getting our joy from the things we buy, and giving for the sake of declaring our sainthood…. What are we doing then? We chase after Gods will in submission in the ways we save, spend, and give. And when you save, spend, and give with Gods will in mind the joy you get from how you operate your money will be on a whole different level.
JaredCM forfeited this round.
"So if you should start to consider you are bored with this website or this debate remember your honor is at stake to finish what you started. Jesus would have you keep your commitments to this debate with me and do your best to not forfiet any rounds. the time for you to choose to quite should be after the debate is over in the voting period but not while it is going on. if you absolutely must forfiet a round or it beyond your control please give the courtesy of notifying me what happened or at the least that you are sorry but still acknoweldge the debate goes on. This is a courtesy many brand new members for some reason do not give often but should."
it seems my opponent did not take anything away from this that I put in the first round or perhaps he did not even read it, its hard to tell when your opponent drops off the face of DDO what happened, mabye he litterally droped off the face of the Earth as well we will never know.
the funny thing is, for some reason when its a new member like Jerod quit on us like this, they dont notify us that they will not be able to finish there started debates.
JaredCM forfeited this round.
JaredCM forfeited this round.
I declare myself the winner
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