The Instigator
mcc1789
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
joshuaXlawyer
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Rights are Alienable

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/16/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 733 times Debate No: 17089
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

mcc1789

Pro

I am re-posting as my first debate on this did not go very far. http://www.debate.org...

The first round is for acceptance. Opening arguments will begin in the next round. There will be no new arguments in the last round, or you forfeit the conduct point.

I am sure we can have an enjoyable debate on this challenging topic.
joshuaXlawyer

Con

Accepted I hope this is a more interesting debate then the last few I had, also I will tell i will bring you more of a challenge than the last person you debated with.
Debate Round No. 1
mcc1789

Pro

Thank you for accepting Joshua. I certainly want a more challenging debate than before, so good luck to you. I'm glad to have another legal mind to debate.

I am arguing that human beings have inherent rights to tangible property in their person, and external objects they acquire by mixing their labor with them, purchasing, or gift. The person who denies this is using their self-ownership to deny it, a clear logical contradiction on its face. Human rights are in fact property rights, to ourselves and our external property. (1) Logically it follows that "if I own something, I can sell it (and should be allowed by law to do so). If I can't sell, then, and to that extent, I really don't own it." (2) For us to own ourselves, we must be able to sell or give up property in ourselves in whole or in part.

While a mere promise is not sufficient to transfer property if there is consideration it would be (3). This can be either through purchase or devise. While the self-sale has been objected to as a person's will being "surrendered in advance" (3) this would apply to all contracts. If one denies a self-sale or devise contract would be valid, then none can be. This is logically contradictory as stated above. Although supporters of property rights do not deny that external property can be sold or gifted (houses, cars, etc.) they generally oppose the wholesale transfer of property in the person. Partial transfer, such as organs, may be permitted, but if so, where is the separation between selling yourself entirely?

Rights can be alienated by voluntary action, but also in response to such alienation. If one violates another's self-ownership of themselves and or their external property, they say, by this action, that it is thus acceptable in return. They have thus abrogated their property rights to the extent of violating another's, and the victim may demand punishment or compensation to the degree of the violation suffered (4).

Sources:

1: The Ethics of Liberty, Chapter 15. "Human Rights" as Property Rights, by Murray N. Rothbard, New York University Press, 1998. Originally published: Atlantic Highlands, N.J. : Humanities Press, 1982. ISBN 0-8147-7506-3.
http://mises.org...

2: Toward a Libertarian Theory of Alienability: A Critique of Rothbard, Barnett, Smith, Kinsella, Gordon and Epstein, by Walter Block, Journal of Libertarian Studies, Volume 17 no. 2 (Spring 2003), pp. 39-85 �2003 Ludwig von Mises Institute https://mises.org...

3: The Ethics of Liberty, Chapter 19. Property Rights and The Theory of Contracts, ibid. http://mises.org...

4: The Ethics of Liberty, Chapter 13. Punishment and Proportionality, ibid.
http://mises.org...
joshuaXlawyer

Con

joshuaXlawyer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
mcc1789

Pro

Extend arguments.
joshuaXlawyer

Con

joshuaXlawyer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
mcc1789

Pro

That's it. My opponent has, it seems, conceded. The arguments made stand unchallenged. Vote Pro.
joshuaXlawyer

Con

joshuaXlawyer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by mcc1789 5 years ago
mcc1789
Joshua, please don't forfeit again.
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 5 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
i still got a rebuttel coming i just didnt finish in time ill come back in next round sorry for inconvenice
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