The Instigator
KPAX
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
CoachSafe12
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points

Rights do not exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/20/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,760 times Debate No: 10900
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

KPAX

Pro

There are no rights in the universe, no universal natural moral laws guaranteeing rights, the good or mores. For rights, goods and morals to exist they must be true at all times in all places and for all things.
This argument categorically excludes the laws of nature and physics, as they are amoral.
The contention is "there is no universal good" that would come from a universal right. The only rights, goods and morals that can exist are made by rational beings and are only applicable among those rational beings agreeing to them. Such rights, goods and morals do not exist beyond this arrangement at all times and all places for all things.
Taking up this debate one must prove: 1. What generates rights? 2. What is a universal good along with how and why it is good? 3. What mechanism is charged with administering any universal right, good or moral if indeed their administration is necessary or desirable? And 4. How it applies to all things?
CoachSafe12

Con

My opponent charges me with four tasks, of which you can read in Round 1. My answers to his questions are as follows: 1) The same anomaly that generates human existence. Whether that anomaly be Creator or accident, existence generated the right to life with it. 2) "To exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly." - Henri Bergson. The Universal Good that comes from the right to life is maturation and procreation, which is revealed to be good by our ability to think and have this discussion. 3) Administration of the right to life has already taken place with the existence of life. Therefore, no further mechanism is necessary. 4) The right to life is universal in that, as stated above, living things already exist, and the right exists with them. My opponent is incorrect in his assertion that there are no rights in the universe. The very fact that my opponent is alive and was able to type that argument stands as proof that such rights exist.
Debate Round No. 1
KPAX

Pro

1. Anomaly generating life or existence; it does not follow that said anomaly generates rights. If rights are generated by an anomaly whether a creator or by accident are such rights not merely accidental rights subject to whimsy or inconsistency and not universal?
2. The task is to define the good or even the evil rights would address not to define existence.
3. If a right exists there must be a mechanism to enforce it if not it is little more than whimsy to be violated at will.
4. Failed to apply to all things, a rock has existence but not life though it may change and mature.
The claim rests on that anomaly-creator, which is not a proven or accepted authority for either existence or life. In the form X therefore Y, rights (Y) are not demonstrated to have any relation to the premises (X), the anomaly-creator.
The fact of life does not demonstrate rights exist; only there may be such a thing as being. Existence: the category of all being not the category of human beings.
CoachSafe12

Con

CoachSafe12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
KPAX

Pro

Being and existence do not in and of themselves establish either necessary or sufficient conditions that rights exist. For humans to think and reason does not imbue the rock with any moral or ethical value. Saying that everything in the universe has a right to exist does not mean anything more or less than that. A rock is not granted morality or good or evil it is only imbued with existence and therefore being and like all beings nothing more. I see no argument presented that a right exists for all things in all places and at all times. Indeed the violation of a right to existence may be an essential and necessary condition for the sustenance of being, sufficient in and of itself to deny that this right exists. For rights to exist they must be applicable to the existence of the animate or inanimate, rational beings or non-rational beings. Life is a subset of existence not a separate category. The universe is not moral, a necessary condition for rights.
CoachSafe12

Con

CoachSafe12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KPAX 7 years ago
KPAX
I am dissapointed. perhaps I couched the original question incorrectly. Do rights exist in the universe as do laws of physicis? couuld it be that the character limit was not appropriate for the topic or the number of rounds?
We could quibble for endless time over the meanings odf words: exist, rights, life, being, rational agent or rational being, morality, etc. unless we have an ability to agree upon the terms of what words mean we are forever shouting at cross purposes. perhaps I shall post this again phrasing it differently as in is there any such thing in the universe as a moral imperative? Then apply the limit to only the definition of rational agents. and a greater discussion or argument that could flow from that premise.
Posted by KPAX 7 years ago
KPAX
Thanx for accepting the challenge.As I am new at this I purposely kept the characters small in the hopes that brevity would add clarity. also that a conclusion or a reasonable semblance of one could be quickly reached. The topic has the potential to expand rapidly and I am hoping to limit its scope with concise arguments.
Thankyou again fro your gracious response.
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
Just post every other word and let us try to figure it out, lol
Posted by CoachSafe12 7 years ago
CoachSafe12
Interesting spell checker as well... lol Maybe I should check these for spelling myself, and not rely on the spell checker!
Posted by CoachSafe12 7 years ago
CoachSafe12
Wow, 1000 characters is very difficult get a coherent set of arguments going. This comment box allows me 2000 characters.

I had to delete a lot of good stuff.. Certainly there will be no room for cross examination questions. I expect I'll be on my heels for the whole debate, due to only have space to refute and not attack.
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
it's all about the definition of "exists"

If I wasn't in 2 other debates right now, I might take this.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
"You cannot accept this challenge because you do not match the Instigator's age and/or rank criteria."
Posted by Rezzealaux 7 years ago
Rezzealaux
I define exist, game over.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
You cannot accept this challenge because you do not match the Instigator's age and/or rank criteria.
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
Same here
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by KPAX 7 years ago
KPAX
KPAXCoachSafe12Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by tbtaylor 7 years ago
tbtaylor
KPAXCoachSafe12Tied
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Total points awarded:07