The Instigator
NukeHappy51
Pro (for)
The Contender
SkySky16
Con (against)

Roblox is Dying and Should Retire Its Servers

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Debate Round Forfeited
SkySky16 has forfeited round #4.
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Time Remaining
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2017 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,084 times Debate No: 100855
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

NukeHappy51

Pro

Roblox is an old washed up website that is controlled by organized programmers with a monopoly on plays and likes stifling creativity and competition. It is becoming ripe with hacking and exploiting. Its user base is largely younger and immature creating toxic playing environments. The company is obsessed with Builder Club memberships and in game purchases. It relies solely on add revenue and VIP memberships to stay alive.
SkySky16

Con

I played roblox in my middle school days.

Roblox is an old washed up website

While this may be true, Pro has not provided any factual support for this claim. Purely opinion.

Roblox is controlled by organized programmers...

A group of programmers that are skilled at making games that people like, there is nothing wrong with that. It may make it harder to become a big name game creator on the site but that is because most people lack the skill and originality to compete, not because of some kind of abuse by the programmers.

Ripe with hacking and exploiting

While this may be true, this is not a good indication of a platform "dying."

User base is young

This is true, but toxic playing environments are apart of every game that is online. People are jerks online, that is almost the only true constant in the world. (hyperbole)

Company is obsessed with making money

Duh. Of course the company is "obsessed" with builders club and in game purchases. This is what makes a company profitable.

Relies on ad revenue and VIP memberships to stay alive

Again, of course it does. This is every free to play game on the market. Some don't even use advertisements.

In conclusion

Pro has attempted to justify their claim that Roblox should retire its servers. They used arbitrary justifications that apply to business in general and actually show that it could be THRIVING. Pro hasn't provided anything showing their profits are falling drastically or their player base is corroding. Even if the latter two were true, it would still not be the absolute justification for giving up.
Debate Round No. 1
NukeHappy51

Pro

My rebuttal:
Concerning point 1
Roblox is a website and a company. Its sole purpose as such is to entertain. Private programmers make the games on Roblox. They can become wealthy through ad revenue and famous through the popularity of the game they have created. While on the top tag of the game you usually see the same games, sometimes a new one pops up, but usually its the same games until they are completely phased out by new ones. The frequency of this cycle is important to the well being of the community because it allows new programmers to see the fruits of their labor. If, say a major entertainment company were to sponsor or even make a game, that gives certain games an advantage over their competition because now programmers are receiving corporate funding which can range anywhere from 1k to 2k depending on the medium on this platform specifically. Do forgive me for the vague term "organized programmers" I was referring to a corporate entity sponsoring groups of programmers. This is not inherently bad but can become bad. I have seen games sponsored by major entertainment companies and they receive big boots in plats for it. Certain people posses a monopoly on the popular tab nowadays, I cannot tell you how long Phantom Forces has been up there. I can leave Roblox and check again in 8 months and still see the same games on the popular tab.

Concerning point 2
You stated:"This is not a good indication of the platform "dying."" Which I believe to be a sorely wrong statement. Hacking and exploiting is a cancer on the community and the games themselves. Roblox has always had a problem with hacking but it has become more severe as time progresses. I have done research on this issue and it may come to your surprise to know that Cheat Engine still can hack Roblox. There are entire communities dedicated to hacking and exploiting Roblox. It is a prime indicator of time if your servers can be shut down so easily. Depending on what games you play the hacking is worse. Nothing indicates a virtual platforms age than the vulnerability of the code used to craft it.

Concerning point 3
This was mostly a matter of opinion but I believe it to be true (as does most of the older community.)
Younger players (5-8) are immature and can not converse well coherently. This creates toxic playing environments where 5 year olds a hurling juvenile insults at each other. The more of these there are, the more toxic the community which will eventually lead to a major digression of the whole culture of Roblox.

Concerning point 4
Yes, I know the only way Roblox is to stay profitable is by making us buy Builders Club memberships and robux but it has to end somewhere. Free to play games have more lee way when it comes to things like this.Why do you need three different VIP memberships? Why did you get rid of tix? Because it maximizes cash flow at the expense of the customer. The customer has to pay for special benefits he used to be able to get normally. Tix were important because it improved the whole economy of Roblox and allowed players different ways of getting robux. Why did Roblox get rid of them? Maybe because you could save up Tix and win them in games instead of spending REAL money on robux.

I will go over how this ties into the dying community of Roblox in my next argument
SkySky16

Con

I'll answer my opponent with the same points he used

1. You complain that there is a lack of diversity but what if I told you that you are obviously in the minority. If games stay on the popular tab it's because they are still popular. If people don't want those games they are free to browse others, just because something is at the top for a long time doesn't necessarily mean someone's abusing it.
Even if these "organized programmers" were sponsored by Roblox, a majority of platforms similar to this has sponsored servers, or in this case games. There are various reasons for this. You yourself said it isn't inherently bad. Just because you have a problem with the lack of diversity doesn't mean the game is dying and the community has a problem with it.
Look at games like League of Legends or Hearthstone, those games have had the same 2-4 game modes for YEARS. They are both the top dog in their genre. Or even a game like skyrim that is praised for its replayability. Just because you do the same sort of thing for an extended period of time doesn't mean that it gets boring.

2. Hacking and exploiting are apart of literally every game. There are no games where there aren't bugs that are eventually exploitable or hacks that can be put in to place, whether temporary or long lasting. If Roblox as a game platform has a problem with it then encourage the community to report such events. If you don't let the company know you can't expect them to stop it.

3. This is where I believe your arguments are proven to be mostly bias. You dislike the games that are popular and dislike the community. It may not be for you. Just because something is not compatible with everyone does not mean it's dying. I'm certain a mute/block system exists. Utilize it.

4. From what I understood when I played, the things you could buy with money is purely aesthetic. If a game was pay to win it never lasted too long. Even if it did, it just shows that the majority of the community LIKES whatever game that stays popular. Every player has access to other games than just the featured or popular ones.

5. What Pro has to do to win the argument is prove the unprovable. They have to prove that their opinion is factual. "Should they retire its servers?" Is a question that is ridiculously objective. Look at it from financial POV and this debate is completely different and there could actually be grounds for it but Pro has taken it to the point where they are personally displeased with the game. Instead of crusading against the game, Pro should just stop playing and let the other people have their fun on the game they like.
This is the equivalent of your neighborhood kids playing soccer and the person who owns the ball got butthurt and ran home with it so now the fun is over for everyone. Don't be that guy Pro.

6. Another critique of the subject itself, what does it mean for a game to be "dying." People still play old games like Modern Warfare 2 and that is widely considered as "dead." Pro has not provided any definition of which to debate around.
Debate Round No. 2
NukeHappy51

Pro

I will clarify my point as follows:
When people say a game is dying they are referring to the digression of the very fabric of the game itself and the community that revolves around the game.

You have claimed my arguments are biased solely for the reason the game is popular and people succeed on it.

This is a false claim.

If you take into consideration all of the points relative directly to the matter of the subject at hand one like you, may not see how or even why I would claim the game is "dying." If Roblox's mission statement is to inspire innovation then THE VERY GAME should reflect that. It does not, at least not as you would expect

I believe the problem with your counter argument is a lack of direct knowledge of the situation and Roblox as a whole.
Proof?
There is a certain atmosphere every online game has and gamers usually are aware of top trending issues. If you talk to anyone on Roblox about the well being of the game you will hear many things. But I, being a very dedicated gamer know the community very well and I am more prepared to make a full assessment on it instead of an outsider.
I do realize you have stated that you have played the game in your middle school years, which is exactly the problem.

You are looking at Roblox through the lenses of different era in its history. If I play Minecraft in its Beta stage and come back 5 years later there are going to be huge differences in its community and the game as a whole. You could not expect me to make an assessment on a game I have revisited after 5 years until I got re-acquainted with the game.

Therefore, I state that someone who has been absent from the Roblox community will not know the ins and outs of TODAY as well as yesterday.

The symptoms of a dying game are numerous and vary from game to game. As an example you previously stated League of Legends has the same modes and prospers greatly. This example is not applicable to Roblox.
Why not?
Because Roblox at its VERY CORE is centered around player made games and while YOU say that a lack of diversity is not bad I say otherwise. A lack of diversity in games is a symptom of a larger problem in Roblox. It is the DIRECT result of less players becoming pro programmers and creating profitable games. Innovation is at the core of Roblox and if innovation is not occurring than it is safe to assume that something is wrong. Of course this doesn't mean no players are creating games but it means fewer are.

You want me to cite factual evidence and I will.
FACT: The frequency of games appearing on the popular tab has gone down.
FACT: less programmers are receiving massive success

You may now ask;"How can he possibly know this?"
It is simple, I have played Roblox long enough to compare and contrast the years. When I first started the popular tab was changing all the time, now it is less diverse in its options with a few large games monopolizing the plays.

But how is this a direct symptom of the game dying? Because it is an indicator of less innovation within the community.

I have proved my first point but what about number 2?

Being the dedicated gamer that I am I know what the twilight era of a game looks like. Online games that are coming to their end are ALWAYS full of hacking and exploiting. Of course hacking and exploiting are apart of every game but when an online game is coming to its end it is ALWAYS full of more hacking and exploiting than usual. This can be seen in a related incident regarding Club Penguin. If you go to any major server it is FULL of bots that are programmed to spew out links and phishing scams.

Roblox in its case has a problem with hacking and exploiting and while bots are not necessarily hacking/exploiting I have many other examples.

Call of Duty 3 the original has more hacking in it now than ever because the majority of people have left the game.
The amount of hacking/exploiting always increases as a game ages for technological reasons as well as others.

Point 3 is one of great importance you may find.
While not BAD, the major influx of young players into Roblox has created certain effects in the community. First of all it solidified the position of major programmers because now a young and loyal player base has been created within the community. As well, Roblox has been seen more as a childish Minecraft like game for kids in the outer gaming circles which has damaged its reputation from a more mature creator based sandbox programming game to a Minecraft look alike. Younger player bases allow the community to become toxic and FAST. You may not understand it but when so many toxic environments are created, it slowly corrodes the community. People can argue that Minecraft is dying because the community IS EXTREMELY TOXIC. Ask anyone on Minecraft and they will tell you, the community has become highly toxic. A sign of a dying game is a toxic community which becomes more toxic as time progresses.

Point 4
Here is where things become more financial and tangible. You would not have known this but Roblox removed Tix from the Roblox economy. It has also created extra builders club memberships.
Why?
Well now, not being immediate cause for alarm, the three extra builders club memberships are generally excepted as being standard practice and the company trying to expand its paying user base to open up new options for its customer experience.
HOWEVER, Tix was another story...

The removal of Tix received a HUGE OUTCRY from the community. People were furious and confused and the public majority wanted Tix back.

Why?

Here's where things get important. Tix can be earned by PLAYING games and earned by TRADING robux. Emphasis on NOT PAYING THE COMAPANY.

Robux are the backbone of the Roblox economy and are highly valued. So naturally people tried getting them anyway they could. One VERY IMPORTANT way was trading Tix for Robux which was a free exchange unlike spending real money on robux.

So when Roblox got rid of Tix the community assumed it was for one reason and one reason only: Financial

I have spent a lot of time researching public opinions on this matter and a whole forum agreed it was because Roblox itself needed money.

You claim the company is prospering financially but I suspect otherwise based on evidence previously stated.

This is my argument.

I realize my opening argument was vague and not well planned out. I failed to create and argument by defining the basis of it in the first place. I hope you will properly consider all of the points.
SkySky16

Con

I don't claim your arguments are bias because the game is popular, I claim their bias because the only objective arguments you put forth were hacking and exploiting and Roblox making money.

"If you talk to anyone on Roblox about the well being of the game you will hear many things." This doesn't back up your argument, just because something is believed by the community doesn't mean it's true. A large part of the hearthstone community believe the game is dying, it very clearly isn't. I'm not viewing it as I played it I'm viewing it as a game. Your largest gripe with it is it doesn't follow it's mission statement to inspire innovation. The game does do this, you can create and build your own games as you wish. That being said, the most well made and enjoyable games will usually be on top, that's just a fact of an equal platform.

Pro then goes into an argument that talks about the game's community as if it's important to the game itself not "dying." Pro just claimed that when a game is dying it is "the digression of the very fabric of the game itself and the community that revolves around the game." The community has no play in the game itself, just because it is changing and evolving doesn't mean it's dying. You don't like the changes the community is undergoing so you view it as dying, when it isn't.

Pro then makes the argument that there is no innovation in roblox while there very clearly is. Again, just because crappy and poorly made games aren't popular doesn't mean the game is dying. The reason why those few profiles are always on the top? They make great content, simple as that. Just because fewer are making games doesn't mean the game is dying, they just might not want to be a creator and just want to be a consumer.

"FACT: The frequency of games appearing on the popular tab has gone down.
FACT: less programmers are receiving massive success"
Again, this doesn't mean the game is dying. The game is a free market as far as this goes, and you can play whatever game people post. Most people play these games because they are good.

Pro uses Call of Duty 3 as an example to prove the that hackers mean the game is dying. This is flawed because, by Pro's definition, the game has been long dead. The content is stagnant, the player base is largely unchanging, and the company is no longer trying to combat hacking.

Roblox was never a "mature creator based sandbox programming game." That is pretty ridiculous. Besides the point, YOUR view on a good/bad player base is arbitrary. The game is thriving from the viewpoint of the kids that are joining.

I never claimed the company was "prospering financially" I claimed that what the memberships for are to make money. Roblox is a business after all.

Pro is entirely too biased in his argumentation. Using his same logic from a different POV we get the exact opposite conclusion. The game is thriving.

"Great games are always popular!
I can create silly games to share with my friends, even if they aren't popular!
The game isn't pay to win!
There are more people my age in the community!"
Etc.
Debate Round No. 3
NukeHappy51

Pro

Now for the closing argument which will consist of possible errors/improvements to your argument, errors in pro/cons argument, and final point clarification.
1.)
I made many errors in my argument. First of all my opening argument was very poorly constructed with little elaboration and that weak base I feel crippled the rest of my argument.

I failed to quickly define "dying" in this context. Clearly you and I differ on the definition when it comes to video games.

I apparently was not impartial enough when it came to the young user base issue.
2 and 3.)
Now for what I feel Con did wrong

First of all you immediately refute my statement that said you said I was biased because the game was popular and people can become successful which is outright false. You clearly say why you think I am biased: "This is where I believe your arguments are proven to be mostly bias. You dislike the games that are popular and dislike the community." but then you say you didn't say that later and claim I am biased because: "I don't claim your arguments are bias because the game is popular, I claim their bias because the only objective arguments you put forth were hacking and exploiting and Roblox making money." This is an outright contradiction.

Next you state that the majority saying something is true doesn't mean it is true (obviously) but then you say "I'm not viewing it as I played it I'm viewing it as a game. Your largest gripe with it is it doesn't follow it's mission statement to inspire innovation. The game does do this, you can create and build your own games as you wish." but this is where I feel my arguments come out as mangled in your counter argument. What I originally said was:" If If Roblox's mission statement is to inspire innovation then THE VERY GAME should reflect that. It does not, at least not as you would expect" that last part: "NOT AS YOU WOULD EXCPECT" was pivotal because it implies that the company is fulfilling its mission statement but not as it should by allowing less monopolies to grow. Innovation means: "the action or process of innovating." innovate means: "make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products." Making a game isn't innovation, innovation is experimenting with new ideas and methods. And I am certainly not saying Roblox has never fulfilled its mission statement because it has many times, its amazing to see what one person can do with Lua and the Roblox Studio, the possibilities are endless, what I was implying and later implying was that Roblox is no longer representing its mission statement not by its own fault though, but rather a natural repercussion of less creators making revolutionary games.

This is also where I feel your argument that lack of diversity doesn't mean the game is dying really falls apart because less and less creators are becoming very popular IS AN UNDENIABLE SIGN that something is wrong. I am not saying monopolies are 100% the cause, but they don't help, they don't allow creators to get their name out there and become famous via the popular tab which is one of the only ways you can advertise your success. There you have it, less encouragement to innovate, less innovation.

Now this is where you were really wrong: "Pro then goes into an argument that talks about the game's community as if it's important to the game itself not "dying." Pro just claimed that when a game is dying it is "the digression of the very fabric of the game itself and the community that revolves around the game." The community has no play in the game itself, just because it is changing and evolving doesn't mean it's dying. You don't like the changes the community is undergoing so you view it as dying, when it isn't." this entire paragraph denies the very nature of MMO's and Roblox itself. THE COMMUNITY IS THE BACKBONE. Without the community the game virtually does not exist. The community makes the games, plays the games, buys the goods, and converses. "The community has no play in the game itself, just because it is changing and evolving doesn't mean it's dying." this is the most false statement in the argument here, the community evolves and evolves THE GAME, the community is tied to Roblox, it is so pivotal but you make it seem like its practically worthless. Roblox is not a game, it is a platform for games, THE COMMUNITY IS THE ONE MAKING THE GAMES!!! You say you are looking at the game alone but how can you without looking at the community as well especially on a platform so multiplayer centered. KEY POINT: When the community digresses SO WILL THE GAME.

Then you go into how Roblox is a "free market" and monopolies aren't bad because they really aren't directly stifling innovation. "Again, this doesn't mean the game is dying. The game is a free market as far as this goes, and you can play whatever game people post. Most people play these games because they are good." Yes, Roblox is a free market, and I know about free market economies. I am going to be frank here, I am a right wing pro capitalist conservative, so naturally I am all for the free market, BUT, it no longer becomes a free market when MONOPOLIES are created. I am very anti monopoly. I am not saying that people being successful is bad but when you and a few choice games that are always on the popular tab WITH NO CHANGES it becomes unhealthy for competing developers. The FREE MARKET IS ABOUT COMPETITION, you cant have competition with constant monopolies and new developers cant show of their INNOVATION with the COMMUNITY.

You also misunderstood the hacking point. Of course Call of Duty 3 original is not taken care of anymore, it practically ancient in internet years. But games that are nearing their end always have MORE HACKING THEN USUAL as can be observed in MANY DIFFERENT GAMES.

Next is where I feel you think I resent the community because it is young, this isn't true. I resent toxic community sects that are predominantly younger. You were a kid, I was a kid, we were annoying and immature. Not all young players are bad of course and if they are having fun no one has the right to take that away.

Next: Roblox was a "MORE MATURE user based sandbox" emphasis on the MORE part because it is MORE mature than it is now. You made it seem like it was just mature. I meant it as a comparison, ask any Roblox veteran and they can confirm early Roblox was less toxic and MORE mature. "damaged its reputation from a more mature creator based sandbox programming game" This is another example of my arguments coming out mangled, the omission of a SINGLE word skewed the entire quote to make it sound like something it wasn't. Of course Roblox community isn't mature, but it was MORE mature back in ye olden days.

Point 4 was by far the most bastardized of all my points. You didn't even mention the issue with the removal of Tix and the apparent necessity of 2 extra VIP memberships.

Conclusion: There are games on Roblox that are popular but when a few games that are ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL on the popular tab and hold a monopoly on everything and discourages people from creating their own games because they know their name will never go out there. You act like the monopolies are not a big deal because people will eventually find another game to play. To that I cite YouTube as an example, people subscribe to games on Roblox, people subscribe to video makers on YouTube, its kind of similar, but the difference YouTube is so diverse monopolies don't work because YouTube unlike Roblox gives people WAY more viewing options and recommended tabs and such and doesn't let an entire tab be monopolized.

Because I am running out of characters I am wrapping up my final argument. I feel like the debate wasn't as constructive as it should have been which was mostly my fault. Thank you for being rational and civilized, I am not the "get off my lawn" type of guy but I believe in equal opportunity.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by ApotheosisOrangutan 1 year ago
ApotheosisOrangutan
Personally, I love playing roblox with my little bro, but I can't help but agree with you :( I'll watch this debate play out, though.
Posted by zach16williams 1 year ago
zach16williams
But what will happen to my Roblox girlfriend?
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