The Instigator
InquireTruth
Pro (for)
Tied
72 Points
The Contender
Amplifier
Con (against)
Tied
72 Points

Rock music is a permissible form of worship in Church

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/17/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,210 times Debate No: 4433
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (27)

 

InquireTruth

Pro

Rock Music is right and even beautiful way to worship God. The Bible makes no statements against it. It must be demonstrated that Rock Music cannot be used as a form of worship because it is either sinful or unbiblical. I insist that I, like King David, can Dance and sing to my Savior in the most unorthodox way and, when opposition is raised, unflinchingly proclaim "I will become even more undignified than this" (2 Samuel 6:22).
Amplifier

Con

Hello Inquire Truth,

I am please and glad that we may speak about this issue together with Christ upon us. We may disagree with the issue, though the Lord is with us, so we may speak only the truth to one another.

I think this issue will take more than three rounds to complete, so we may speak afterwards I pray. This issue is about Rock Music within the church, but may issues surround this one topic.

I begin,
The angles sing praises to the Lord at all times, this show the importance worship is to the Lord. So if we worship in a manner which is to defile the Lord holy praise who are we then? Are we the children of the Lord, but we have just stolen the Lord praise, we are more like the world. For us humans (Though we are not human at all) to take away from the Lord His holy praise which is rightfully His can we still call ourselves followers of Christ?

Worldly people are attracted to there own. You who are rich so will you gather many of the same, and those people that the Lord has set apart in this time will also be gathered together. But even when people find shelter under the church they cannot accept unless they have received the true words which are without defect. Those words are from the Holy Spirit. Not all who call to the Lord will find the fire which will give warmth in this stormy time, and those who have be called, few will accept the true doctrine. How few will be allowed into Gods throne (which is there choice) if many rooted Christians fall away, so how many of those who have not truly been saved will be left?

That which comes from our mouth speaks of our heart. If we are to confess that our church is holy and set apart from the world, which is the meaning of holiness-to be separate onto God. Then how can we say we glorify God with our praise and worship? If we change our way of praising the Lord so more worldly people enter our church then isn't it not for the Lord? Rather it is for people that we praise then? We are to trust God, it is better to have ten then ten thousand attending. Many turn away when the Lord said "you must drink of my blood and eat my flesh." If they turned away because of one truth spoken to them, then how many will leave the church when many truths are given. We trust in the Lord that our bills are paid, after all if the Lord placed them as Leaders then surely He will look after them?

Paul said "all things to me are profitable, but without Christ I consider all things worthless." If so then we may praise as we with how ever we like, but if the Lord is not involved then it's considered worthless in the eyes of Paul and many others. We should not allow people we become offended to hinder the true words of the Lord. [That is to say we still respect people] but to allow people to hinder us, we should not allow this. If many people leave from hearing a truth, then they leave hearing the truth. How can we allow lack of numbers in our church to change the way we worship, which true worship requires not music at all.

Even so there is much more to discuses, though I am limited to this many words here and now. I do look forward to you reply.

Amplifier.
Debate Round No. 1
InquireTruth

Pro

Thank you for accepting this challenge Amplifier.
I too pray that we can conduct ourselves with the spirit of Christ and reason our way to answers. I truly appreciate the sincerity of your argument and your hunger and thirst for righteousness. Now to the topic at hand:

So the syllogism is as follows: Rock music is of the world, the Church is not of the world, and therefore rock music and church are mutually incompatible. It seems like a logically sound formula. However, the fatally damning flaw is in the presupposition—rock music is of the world. If you could express what qualifies something as worldly? Is it based on who practiced it first? Or the way in which it's done? Certainly all humans defecate. It could be well reasoned that defecation is a universally worldly action. Amplifier, I insist you stop pooping - for the sake of righteousness of course.
Could you please express the way in which Christians can set themselves apart from this worldly function? Of course that IS what it means to be holy right? To set yourself apart from everything the world does, that includes, but is not limited to:
•Eating
•Bathing,
•Grooming (or not grooming, they do both. Uh Oh a conundrum)
•Water skiing
•Walking
•Running
•Jogging
•Blinking
•Watching movies
•Reading
•Reasoning.
As is abundantly clear, one cannot simply classify something as worldly based upon whether the world actively does it our not. It seems only reasonable that something is worldly based upon both sin and intent. So first you must prove that Rock music is sinful (not just because the world does it), then you must demonstrate that the intent of using the rock music is to sin. Romans 14 makes it very clear that some people view certain foods as sinful (Paul calls them weaker Christians in the chapter), and then he says some see all food as permissible – neither is sinning, whatever you do, do so for the Lord. Paul makes it clear that trying to please God does in fact please God. It was the heart of the matter, and not the action itself that decided sinfulness.
When the rock music starts blazing and my hands go up, I am worshipping and glorifying my Lord and Savior, and I, like King David, can say "I will become even more undignified than this" (2 Samuel 6:22). Even David worshipped with stringed instruments (Psalm 150:4), actually with strings, tambourine, flute and dancing – he had a whole band I guess.

A second point that must be made is in what way shall we worship God?
Can we worship him with dancing – surely dancing is a worldly thing.
Can we worship him with singing – no no, the world sings.

So the burden set before you is this: Prove to me that rock music is sinful – not that it can be sinful or that sometimes it is sinful – even prayer can be sinful sometimes (Jesus reprimands the Pharisees for this). Prove to me that the sole purpose of rock music is sinful. Then demonstrate the most unworldly way to worship God – and we'll see if it stands up to scrutiny.

I look forward to your response.

-InquireTruth
Amplifier

Con

Issues surrounding the Holiness of the church is but one issue within many. Within this very issue lay ground rules with may be overlooked by many, but still they need to be brought out to see. If we overlook the Bible then we are forgetting the very truth layed before us, true. If we see people defiling the words of our Lord then we act. First as Paul mentioned to warn and rebuke, correct. And if that fails to banish there words from our sheep's ears before defilement occurs.

Can it be that I haven been banished from Churches for the defiler is me? Or have they forgotten he ground roots of our Lords words. Many buildings have been build but few dwell the Lord. For the houses are the denominations of our Lord, scattered and leader less to themselves. If we continue to speak without heeding the word, then we all end up as they, uncorrectable only to themselves. So from Kings and Lords who came before us, let us remember that many people have already tried for unity, but one He will call them home. We have been given to the Lord to speak truth to those who have forgotten the birth right before them, to accept the message without condition. We have been allowed in this time to speak, warn and rebuke those how uphall falsity.

Within in these words relay your answer you seek, for within you He has allowed this to be brought to you, only He none other.

From just I to you, let us say to the Lord whose Spirit lays, bring forth these words "for wisdom, you are my sister, and understand you are my kinsmen." Dont we seek the Lords permission before setting our hands to work? So let us relive the Lords mind to allow this truth to settle.

The issue about churchs becoming more worldly due to rock music is not complete debate, only apart. One part of many to come.
If we relive the words of Paul, who sought not to falter the faith of younger ones. Better I never eat meat forever if this falters my youngers faith.

You who praise to the Lord with rock music, you are not sinning or angering the Lord, rest assured you are with the Lord even with such music.
But has rock music caused the church to fall into the the world by becoming entertainment?

My belovered brother of Truth, let us continue.
Debate Round No. 2
InquireTruth

Pro

You have stated that rock music in the Church is not sinning and nor does it anger God. But then you state that Rock Music is causing the children to falter by turning worship into entertainment. But my friend, you cannot simultaneously believe both the aforementioned, they are contradictory. For Jesus says in Matthew 18:6 "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." So it certainly is sinning and it does anger God to cause our children to falter.

The larger question is: does rock music turn worship into entertainment and cause believers to falter? Let me give you an example. My grandmother loved church hymns; she would sing them night and day. Her favorite part of church was the hymns. She thought hymns were beautiful and she said she felt closer to the spirit when she was singing them. The point is amplifier; she was entertained by hymns, but she was still praising the Lord. Worshiping the Lord does not exclude satisfaction. In fact, worshiping in spirit and truth can be so satisfying as to be entertaining. It seems you presume that God must be boring. Jeremiah 31:4b says, "Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful."

Christ can be worshiped with dancing, tambourines, flutes, drums, singing, praying, and etc. That is to say, there are different forms of worshiping God. Why do you think Rock Music is excluded from that? If someone is blessed by the Spirit to do art, they participate in art that is God centered in order to use there gift for Christ. If someone is blessed with words, they may write poetry to God in order to use there gift for Christ. If someone is blessed with the ability to sing Rock Music, what is wrong with them using that gift for Christ?

Can you show me how Rock Music causes believers to falter?

Blessings to you my Brother in Christ.

Inquire Truth
Amplifier

Con

My last post on this debate, this is to say our issue has not been resolved has it not? Then let us continue our message's. I am please to read your words, they are not harsh or of the law, so let us continue.

Yes brother what you have corrected my words and what you say is true. Though I must explain. I was addressing those of the faith who already worship the Lord with rock music, I was confirming to them who have a pure soul to praise Him so. I sort not to trouble there minds which would disable them worshipping with peace.
There it was, I stated for those who cause the younger to falter should be removed. They are those who lead people astray, leaders and liars who who allow the truth to be uprooted and cast away.

You are correct in all that you said. For your very questions were meant, which will bring true meaning forth.
For that which is temptation we should be cautious but not feared. If we are to maintain a stable house we cannot allow the storm outside to tremble our brothers and sisters. But we must remain within the house and stray not into the world. If danger is near should we tease the Lords correction into bring us back? For what is strongest in out youth should not be uplifted into temptation into our church. When they sang and danced like the world, do we say "come, do as you have always done, just under us!"
But then if we sing and dance just as we where non believers how can we say the Spirit has changed me so? The rock music within our church means nothing if we praise with only truth within our hearts for the Lord. But this can cause our younger not to see the Lord for what He is. He is holy, true and just, then should we say come here and praise just like we have always done?
Can it be we cause our brothers and sisters who are young to fall back into the comfortable spirit of the world. I would also say this also to those which committed incest in the age of Paul. It is the time that has changed and caused this issue to arise. If we being to see the Lords house as the 'lords nightclub' not the sacred ground which we keep holy too, then we should stop. Though these very words of 'club' my be foreign, Churches are becoming just like.

We should not allow this temptation which can be found within rock music, which is the greatest element in being young to cause them to forget who they are. Holy people to a holy God.

My blessed brother of truth, we have more to discuss which I am thankful for.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by DATCMOTO 8 years ago
DATCMOTO
"You shall not love the world or the things of this world"

and..

"the things of this world are ENMITY to the mind of God"

You really can't get any more 'worldly' than rock n roll.. even politicians 'dig' it.
Let's put the emphasis back on personal holiness.. <><
Posted by Amplifier 9 years ago
Amplifier
Hello InquireTruth.

I was hoping to add again into this issue but it seems I need to await your reply for fear of repeating myself. So if you are willing let our debate continue in this manner here.
Posted by Amplifier 9 years ago
Amplifier
Hello InquireTruth.

As you see I have been absent for many weeks though this was expected. If you still interest in this subject we may continue through our comments here?

I am glad I can return here and will post soon with the continued of our issue.
Posted by InquireTruth 9 years ago
InquireTruth
Sure. How would you like to continue?
Posted by Amplifier 9 years ago
Amplifier
InquireTruth.

Would you like to continue our debate, there is much to discuss.
Posted by ally93 9 years ago
ally93
yea really its no biggy...everyone does it :)
Posted by RequireTruth 9 years ago
RequireTruth
I use the wrong "there" all the time...lol it still makes the point!
Posted by InquireTruth 9 years ago
InquireTruth
I used the wrong THEIR in my post. I said "there" - ah what an elementary mistake.
27 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by JBlake 7 years ago
JBlake
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Vote Placed by Awed 7 years ago
Awed
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by chadh 7 years ago
chadh
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by DevinRichardson1 7 years ago
DevinRichardson1
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Youngblood 8 years ago
Youngblood
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Steven123 8 years ago
Steven123
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Agnostic 8 years ago
Agnostic
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by tribefan011 8 years ago
tribefan011
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Gmoney 8 years ago
Gmoney
InquireTruthAmplifierTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07