The Instigator
Rousseau
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
revleader5
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

Rone Paul Will Not Win the 2008 Election

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,680 times Debate No: 935
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (17)

 

Rousseau

Pro

First off, I'm not arguing that Ron Paul would be a bad president, I'm arguing that he simply will not get the nomination from the Republican party. Even if he did, he stands no chance of winning.

First off, I would like to give a link to something that pretty much tells me where Paul is in the election race so far. http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

Basically, he isn't winning in any of the important states, and so there is nothing to suggest he could possibly get the nomination from the Republican Side. If he cannot even garner enough support to win a nomination, than I doubt he could win in a actual race. He may have avid supporters, but that doesn't make up for his lack of the majority support. Another link to show that he isn't winning anything: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

He has done admirably, especially in the fund raising department, and for that I give him props, but there is no chance he will win the 2008 election.

I request you to show me any non-biased polls, showing that Paul is in the lead. I also request that they are current.
revleader5

Con

First of Rone is not his name, it's Ron, it's probably a typo, but I don't want to hear Rone this and Rone that all debate, haha.

Here are some links I want you to visit, explain how each is wrong.

http://www.ronpaulfan.com... - Dr.Paul's name was removed from GOP Straw Poll and replaced with NONE, then NONE won it. Then they remove none and give Ron Paul 1 vote, without providing the capability of voting for him.

http://news.aol.com... - The AOL straw polls takes a while to load, when it does, please tell me who is winning for the Republicans.

http://www.cnn.com... - Who is winning every category except for most disappointing performance?

Please tell me who is winning the AOL straw polls.(2nd link)
And also who won the CNN youtube debate(3rd link)
and just for good measure, who won most disappoiting performance from the youtube debate.(4th link)
Debate Round No. 1
Rousseau

Pro

I will gladly divulge the readings from the straw polls. The first thing you wanted, the results of the AOL vote: Ron Paul is winning. The second thing you wanted, or the results of the CNN debate: Ron Paul won (although I will note that the experts never picked him). As for the 3rd thing you wanted, the most dissapointing performance: Rudy Giuliani (although again, this is a statistic from the online people, the experts consensus was that Ron Paul didn't come off as presedential, and therefore did the worst). What I see from the last two things, is that the experts do not think Ron Paul will win, but the majority of online people do. Now, while America is a democracy, and the majority should win, I argue that the online majority is unfairly tabulated, and irrepresentative of the public. First off, the tabulation doesn't take into effect spammers, who flood the site with pro Ron Paul votes. This isn't neccesarily true, but it is a strong possibility. Not only that, but online counts don't take into effect the true opinion of the public. Also, the CNN link was just one debate, not about the actual election.

This leaves you with the real only credible peice of information being the straw poll results. First off, the Ron Paul website. Well immediatly i looked for the link the story was based off of, because in a debate about Ron Paul's candidacy, I do not think that "ronpaulfan" is a unbiased source. Anyway, basically the real story acknowledges that the straw poll may be subject to spamming, and therefore not accurate.

The link to the real story:
http://www.freemarketnews.com...

The second link basically is open to the same problem. But to prove this further, I want you to go to:
http://www.freemarketnews.com...

Now, this basically says that "There has been no evidence to suggest a correlation exists between straw poll success and success on election day. A better measure of success are scientific polls which currently show Ron Paul is polling at just 5%. " Hmm... basically Straw Polls don't really represent who is going to win! The BEST way to do it would be to look at the scientific polls, i.e. the ones I provided earlier, which revleader5 didn't respond to.

Scientific Polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com......

It is clear to me that Ron Paul has many supporters online. It is also clear that many people online are the younger generations, ones which have the most absence of voting. Thus it is clear that just because Paul wins Straw Polls (which don't accurately portray the situation) it in no way means that Paul will win a nomination, much less the Presidency.

Thank you.
revleader5

Con

If you say online polling is flawed then this site is flawed no? If you win, it could just be your friends flooding your account with votes. Right?
Debate Round No. 2
Rousseau

Pro

Well, first off, this debate is about whether or not Ron Paul will win the 2008 Election. You dropped all your points, and basically agreed with mine. Secondly, not all online votes are flawed, just the ones susceptible to online spamming (of which your straw polls are part of). Thirdly, I was never arguing that debate.org was or wasn't an accurate representation of the arguments. However, it would be prudent to note that debate is an educational process, and I wouldn't care whichever way the debate goes. I am in the debate to find out if there are any concrete reasons why Ron Paul could be the next president. If you have some that aren't flawed, than put them forward, and I will gladly revise my stances. Lastly (another response to your point), one user cannot flood this website with votes, or atleast I do not know how to. This site is fundamentally different from online polls because in an online poll, if my friend votes for Ron Paul (or whoever) than there is nothing wrong with it. Also, I'd like to believe that my friends have the moral integrity to vote for the winner, the one who presented his points more persuasively. Thus far in the debate, I'd say it was me because of several things. I have extended my arguments, responded to yours, and you have dropped all of mine. Therefore, I think it is not a logical leap to suggest that, under the arguments presented in today's debate (taking into account ONLY these arguments), Ron Paul will NOT be the president come 2009. It is important to use only the arguments in today's debate because that is what debate is about. If it weren't based off that, it would be more prudent to have a poll asking the question.

All in all, it has been an engaging debate, and I hope you continue to post logically sound arguments to hone my opinions on Dr. Paul.

Thank you for your time.
revleader5

Con

You know what...this all makes sense. EVERY straw poll Ron Paul won, no matter WHAT site it comes from, is flawed. However, when Ron Paul loses, that is a sign that it is working fine. Is that what you are saying? And where do you get off saying I've dropped all my points? You come out with the stupid argument that Ron Paul supporters are cheating in the online polls, what do I argue to that, "Well Dr.Paul wants to get out of Iraq". NO! I argue that you are claiming all online polls that Ron Paul wins are flawed. Don't deny it because you said it in round 2. I also like your comment saying that I would just be voting for myself. Very smart, ever think it would work in your direction too?
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
No offense intended, but if you are inferring that we are in fact the same person, than I find that ridiculous. I'll go ahead and tell you something though... We DO know each other because we went to the same school, but rest assured we are NOT the same person.
Posted by revleader5 9 years ago
revleader5
Yes, sorry about the comment thing, but for some reason you two seem very similar.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
To clarify, I never said that any time Ron Paul wins a poll, its rigged. I just suggested that the Straw Polls he wins are not accurate because Straw Polls aren't linked with candidates winning. The polls that ARE linked with winning are scientific polls (which Ron Paul has won none). Please do not put words in my mouth. Also, the comment about vote spamming was from Thoreau, not me.
Posted by Thoreau 9 years ago
Thoreau
I'd just like to note that any votes for revleader5, according to his reasoning, could just be him voting more than once, since debate.org is clearly enormously susceptible to spammers.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
I know that, but revleader doesn't, and therefore I shall try to prove it.
Posted by UberCryxic 9 years ago
UberCryxic
I have no idea why anyone would argue against this. It's beyond obvious that Ron Paul will not win the election; it'll be one of the candidates identified with the establishment, as usual.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
lol sorry about that, it was a typo :)
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Ron* lol. Sorry about that...
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