The Instigator
bumblebeeboy
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ChadIrvin
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Russel Westbrook is not a top three point guard

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/23/2017 Category: Sports
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 570 times Debate No: 99243
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

bumblebeeboy

Pro

Russel Westbrook is not a top three guard u create the first argument
ChadIrvin

Con

I must admit that I accepted this debate on the premise that the title is referring to top three point guards still playing in the NBA today, then after accepting, realizing you could have easily been referring to all-time point guards. I will, however, make the argument for all-time.

I'll start by breaking down why I believe Westbrook is a top three point guard in the league today, then will continue afterward as to why I believe he is top three all-time.

Let's look at some of his stats in comparison to that of other top point guards in the league today. He's having a remarkable season this year, averaging a triple-double up to this point (just over half way through the season) and shows no sign of slowing down. Leading the league in scoring (30.6) and is also averaging over ten rebounds (10.6) and over ten assists (10.4). No other player with the exception of Oscar Robertson has averaged a triple double in an entire season. This was something that was considered impossible to do in today's NBA. Westbrook is proving that theory wrong.

While his shooting percentage is not too outstanding (.423), for a point guard it isn't all that bad. His three point shooting is sitting at .324 which isn't spectacular, but for the amount of shots he's taking, it isn't that bad. So we know he's doing quite well this season. There really isn't much debate against that. He's on pace for MVP.

Now let's look at his overall career ...

PPG: 22.1
RPG: 5.9
APG: 7.8
FG%: .434
3Pt FG%: .305

Westbrook was on a team that featured a super star, Kevin Durant, and was still able to play as a superstar himself, not having a bad career due to a team mate who stole the spotlight. Still was able to score points and dish the ball out quite well. Since Durant left the team, Westbrook has been able to flourish even more.

As point guards go, there are none that can boast the numbers that Westbrook does on a continuous basis. Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Tony Parker ... all superstar point guards at one some point in their career, but not on the level in which Westbrook is now. And let's not forget that his team, OKC, is definitely in the playoff hunt and can quite possibly end up in the top four playoff spots by the end of the season. Without him, they aren't even making the playoffs.
Debate Round No. 1
bumblebeeboy

Pro

First of all, I am sorry for not saying among active players as that is what I meant. so let me say first who i think is better. 1. James harden 2. Steph curry 3. kyrie irving. 42% is actually pretty bad and all the three i mentioned actually have a better field goal percentage. james harden has 44% field goal percentage, Kyrie Irving is at 46%, and steph curry is at 46% even though he shoots way more threes than twos. then, james hrden has the rockets at the best of the conference and he also has no one to help him. if you compare kyrie irving and steph currys team to okc, then it is beleivable that are not getting as good of stats. james harden is averaging 28 ppg, 8rpg, and 11 apg so he is averaging more assists and only two less at the other two catagories. and like i said before, the rockets have a much better record than that of okc. curys and irvings stats are not as good but they actually have alot of good players around them so they will not get as good of stats. and currys stats: 24 ppg, 4 rpg, and 6 apg. irving stats: 23.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg and 5.6 apg. but make sure you do not forget to compare their rosters. irving has lebron james and kevin love etc. and steph curry has kevin durant, draymond green, klay thompson, etc. and OKC has absolutely no one good on their team but him. all of my information is coming from espn. look the stuff up if you have to.and point guards are notsupposed to be great rebounders. i will say westbrook is a better rebounder than all of them but that is it.
ChadIrvin

Con

Thank you to my opponent for his quick response to the debate and for clarifying what he meant by stating that Westbrook is NOT a top 3 point guard in the league today and not of all time.

Russell Westbrook is definitely a top 3 point guard actively playing in the league today. His stats prove it and so does his team's winning percentage with no other all stars playing alongside him. He's doing all the work and doing a great job of it, too.

"James harden has 44% field goal percentage, Kyrie Irving is at 46%, and Steph curry is at 46%"

I'll start with James Harden's career field goal percentage (.443). His best shooting season was when he came off the bench in OKC during the 2011-2012 season, shooting .491. His minutes were far fewer then as well (about 7 minutes fewer than during his time in Houston). This is why his field goal percentage was up; he shot the ball less than he does now. Was he a stud coming off the bench for OKC? Of course, he was the best 6th man at the time. But let's not forget, James Harden was not a point guard during this stretch. He was a shooting guard. He only became a point guard at the beginning of this season. So calling him a point guard isn't really fair. He should be eliminated from point guard ranking.

http://www.espn.com...

Irving has lebron james and kevin love etc. and steph curry has kevin durant, draymond green, klay thompson, etc. and OKC has absolutely no one good on their team but him.

You could argue that Steph Curry and Kyrie Irving are the top two point guards in the league today, but that would still make Westbrook the number three point guard using your top PG list.

"irving has lebron james and kevin love etc. and steph curry has kevin durant, draymond green, klay thompson, etc. and OKC has absolutely no one good on their team but him."

The fact that these players have other All Stars on their roster only proves they may not be as great as you claim. With other All Stars they have less burden put on them and therefore they don't have it as hard as Westbrook. But this being said, since I believe Harden shouldn't even be on the point guard list, I can definitely say that Westbrook is definitely in the top 3 of current point guards.

My list of top 5 point guards still playing.

1) Westbrook
2) Curry
3) Paul
4) Irving
5) Thomas

And of the point guards on your list, Westbrook is the best defensive player. He averages close to 2 steals per game (1.7) for his career.

http://www.foxsports.com...

There really isn't much you could argue against Westbrook being the number one point guard in the league today, let alone top 3. Averaging a triple double this year shoots him to the top or the near top of the list.
Debate Round No. 2
bumblebeeboy

Pro

I was talking about this season and not his career. Westbrook has had a better career than harden since he has started more seasons. And this season Westbrook is averaging more attempts than all of them. Westbrook: 23 fga irving: 19 fga harden: 18 curry: 17. So the more u shoot, the more points u can score so there that. And the more all stars you have the less minutes you will get. the fact that westbrook is averaging five more shots per game and harden is only averaging 2 less points is actually pretty bad. then when you look at the turnovers, westbrook is a turnover machine and he is averaging close to the most turnovers in the league. averaging 5.5 turnovers westbrook is. but I will say harden also needs to stop turning the ball over. when you look at their head to head, the rockets have beat the thunder 2 of 3 times btw. Just to let you know curry and irving are starting above him in the all-star game. then kyrie has really good stats for having the best player in the league and kevin love and will have J,R, smith. and curry is on the mosed stacked roster I have ever seen. currys stats are actually pretty good for having pretty much all all-stars in their starting line up. he is the fourth leading scorer behind kevin Durant and a couple other. so he is just accepting that he will not beable to shoot as much as he could last year. and btw kyrie had 49 even though LeBron james and the big three were in the game the whole time last night. well most of the time. and currys team has beat the thunder both times. so has the rockets beat them 2 of 3 and the cavs have not played them yet. and I am going by this season not career. and by the way you have said like one stat. so prove the stuff you say buddy with stats. all of my stats are coming from espn.
ChadIrvin

Con

After I accepted this debate, I realized that the title could have referred to all time best point guard and that would have been difficult to argue. My opponent then told me he meant best point guard currently playing ...

"First of all, I am sorry for not saying among active players as that is what I meant."

As you can see, he said the title of this debate meant of current players, not all time. This is easier to debate, because I believe Westbrook is definitely a top three point guard when eliminating all point guards who are no longer playing. However, my opponent is now telling me he meant that Westbrook is a top three point guard this season. If this is the case, I will have to believe that this debate is already won by me. There is no way anyone who knows NBA basketball who could argue that Westbrook is not a top three point guard this season. As I have stated already, he is averaging a triple double and that alone makes him the best point guard (and definitely top three) in the league this season. There really is no legitimate argument that can be made against that.

"Just to let you know curry and irving are starting above him in the all-star game."

And this is mainly due to the fans who vote, which accounts to 50% of the total votes. Not making the starting line up in the All Star game isn't always indicative of how great a player is. It's a lot of fan favorites that get voted in like Yao Ming.

"so prove the stuff you say buddy with stats. all of my stats are coming from espn."

I have backed my claims up with stats. I actually link them as well. But like I mentioned above, there is no way you can argue that Westbrook is not a top three point guard this year. Let's take a look at a more in-depth break down of the top point guards in the league.

http://www.nba.com...

"and btw kyrie had 49 even though LeBron james and the big three were in the game the whole time last night."

Kyrie had 49 point, but how many assists did he have? Four ... four assists. Kyrie Irving is a point guard and he only dished it out 4 times. Not exactly a great point guard if all you're doing is scoring. And the fact that the Cavs still lost that game ...

http://www.espn.com...

And Kyrie Irving isn't even a great assists man. He averages only 5.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers. Not a great stat for a point guard.

http://www.espn.com...

Westbrook not a top three point guard this season? Let's get real and just look at the stats and the facts. They don't lie.
Debate Round No. 3
bumblebeeboy

Pro

First off I never said that russel Westbrook is a top three point guard cause he is definitely not.and in the link you gave me it was made before the season started and curry is ranked higher so no idea what that proves. When you look at the turnovers, Westbrook is averaging 5.6 tpg and Irving is only averaging two. So there's that. And like I said last post, all three of their teams would destroy Russel Westbrook. Any of these three people could do what Westbrook is doing if they took the place of Westbrook. Russel just simply gets more minutes than all of them. If 50% of the votes are fans of them, then what edge does that give the other three?lol so I am guessing you are saying that Westbrook is not a fan favorite. How does saying that i meant among active players mean that I said he is in the top three. I literally named three players that are better than him and active, so I do not see how that statement means I think he is in the top three lol. Russel Westbrook just simply is not as good of a point guard as everybody thinks he is. And averaging 5.6 and 6.2 assists are not bad. And harden is averaging more sooooooooo yeah. Good game
ChadIrvin

Con

I'm going to leave this last round short and to the point, but first of all I'm not really sure what you're debating here. The title of your debate is "Westbrook is not a top three point guard," and yet you're now telling me that you never said Westbrook is a top three as if I am saying that's your argument. Your debate title was a blanket statement to start off, then you told me that you meant he isn't top three this season right after telling me you meant to debate his not being top three of current point guards. I gave you reasons why I believe he is top three point guard this season. I'm confused as to what exactly you're trying to debate here.

Westbrook is the best point guard this season. He is definitely top three point guards of players still playing today. There isn't much to argue about that. When a player averages a triple double over half the season with 24 triple doubles half way through, it's hard to argue against him being top three point guards in the league this season. Averaging over 5 turnovers a game is definitely not good, but when you average over ten assists a game and over 30 points per game, it can almost be forgiven.

Your final argument seems to be the fact you believe Westbrook isn't a top three point guard this season, so I'll definitely call you out on that. I think anyone who knows the NBA and basketball overall, would not argue him being top three this season.
Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by loganmaus7 10 months ago
loganmaus7
Russell Westbrook has to be a top 3 point guard for this NBA season.

He is averaging a triple double:
32.1 PPG
10.5 RPG
10 APG
http://www.espn.com...
He lost Kevin Durant in the off season and the Thunder are still on pace to make the playoffs with a 35-29 record. The Thunder are currently in 7th place in the western conference. Some people might argue that Stephen Curry and Kyrie Irving are better point guards, he would still be in the top 3 though. He would be the best point guard if he had less turnovers and made smarter decisions. For that reason some people will put him behind Steph and Kyrie, but there is no way you can't consider him a top 3 point guard, he is averaging a TRIPLE DOUBLE. That is insane. Making a case for him not being a top 3 point guard doesn't make sense with the type of season he is having. He may not be the top point guard, but he has to be in the top 3.
Posted by arjunsareen77 11 months ago
arjunsareen77
There is no doubt that westbrook is in top 3 pg playing this season going by the numbers he has put up this season.
A player is credited for his top position only coz of the numbers he put up nd nothing but numbers.
Lebron is the best player on the planet not for his power or his great passing ability but for his numbers on the board and the rings he have.
So going after the numbers he has put up,no doubt in my mind that he is in top 3 for this season but keeping in my mind he is in top only for this season nd not in the list of actively playing because cp3,isiah have been pulling off great numbers for all these years seasons after season are regarded in the top 3 active.
More so its about consistency than anything else which these great pg's like parker cp3 etc have had than westbrook who emerged with great numbers only this season.
Moreover it does not matter how great numbers u pull but u still don't end up getting ur team over the line which has been the case with him. westbrook hasn't emerged as a team player compared to harden which is why rockets are at number 3 in the western and thunders at 6 (just coz of their win over jazz today which makes em above grizzliez but tie in win games).
So for me westbrook certainly isn't in top 3 active players of all time unless he wins a championship this year and i know cp3 nd isiah themselves haven't won onebut they have been putting up numbers on consistent basis.
Posted by jo154676 11 months ago
jo154676
This is his first year at the position
Posted by bumblebeeboy 11 months ago
bumblebeeboy
And it says PG on the internet.sooooooooooo you wrong
Posted by bumblebeeboy 11 months ago
bumblebeeboy
He plays pg a lot
Posted by jo154676 11 months ago
jo154676
I despise westbrook, Harden isnt a pg btw, but he is a top 3 in the league look at stephs stats this year, coming from a warriors fan.
Posted by bumblebeeboy 11 months ago
bumblebeeboy
Actually I have more to cover next round
Posted by bumblebeeboy 11 months ago
bumblebeeboy
I will go over all time next post
Posted by arjunsareen77 11 months ago
arjunsareen77
i certainly believe russell is not a top three pg coming from his big fan.
just coz a player has been putting up with overwhelming triple doubles this season it does not cement his position in the top 3..moreover he has been pulling of these great stats just coz he has no other superstar in the team besides him so that automatically gets him in a position of more play making.
Looking at his this year's stats he has highest fg attempts this season considering the season is only halfway through. plus he has shown an improvement in his performance only in the areas of defensive rebounds nd assists comparing with other seasons and since he has more play making high numbers on assists is nothing new.
similarly even lebron in 2015 had have an amazing stats in the playoffs coz he was without kyrie nd love but that doesn't mean he could be sparked as the top 3 power forward in the playoffs.
so to spark debates of westbrook being in top 3 is an insult for curry's cp3's nd conley's fans nd many more.
But talking about this particular season i do strongly believe he is the best pg in the league,period.
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