The Instigator
Solarman1969
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
psynthesizer
Con (against)
Winning
88 Points

SILVER IS THE ANSWER

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/4/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,212 times Debate No: 3523
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (24)

 

Solarman1969

Pro

Collidal Silver is a free way to avoid illness

PERIOD.

END OF SENTENCE.

DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE

DONT

DONT

DONT BELEIVE THE TYPE
psynthesizer

Con

I don't have much time this week; school and work take up way more time than they used to.

First off, I will address the resolution at hand:

"Collidal Silver is a free way to avoid illness." – Solarman1969

To begin, there is no such thing as collidal silver; I will assume that my opponent is discussing colloidal silver.

Before delving into any agruementation, I would like to point out that while my opponent is PRO and carries the burden of proof under this resolution, he has provided no substantial claims, evidence or even contentions to affirm the resolution. All he has done in his first round is say that colloidal silver is a free way to avoid illness and assert that it is true because he says so.

I would like to start by first pointing out that colloidal silver is, in fact, not free. My definition of free is without cost. A quick gander around the internet yields a price from Mesosilver, a distributor of colloidal silver products:

http://www.purestcolloids.com...

A single bottle costs $49.87, $34.50 if you decide to order in bulk. A single bottle contains 500ml of colloidal silver solution.

But let's set aside the technicality fallacies of my opponent's case aside for now.

Ingestion of silver can cause irreversible damage to humans. One of the most prominent side-effects of taking silver is a condition known as argyria. Agryia is the permanent discoloration of the skin, which becomes bluish-grey hue. Don't believe me? Here's an article (pics included):

http://www.news.com.au...

still not sure? Here's a video:

http://www.redlasso.com...

However, the dangers of silver ingestion go beyond just skin discoloration. Here's some medical reports:

--note: I'm not entirely sure how to post the entire article, but the abstract provides a general overview of the results.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Granted he's a schizophrenic smoker, but consumption of silver was found to have eventually led to convulsive seizures, as a highly concentrated amount of silver was detected in his serum.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Old man takes colloidal silver daily for four months. Report concludes that silver can lead to "irreversible neurologic toxicity." He died in a vegetative state.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

More scientific approach to the process behind how silver causes agryia, or discoloration of skin pigments.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Patient studied was taking colloidal silver. Patient gets agryia. States that physicians should take more active role in patient's decisions regarding alternative treatments to prevent the potential for toxicity (which is very real).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"RESULTS: Histological examination of skin biopsy specimen, which showed perieccrine brown-black granules, verified that colloidal silver rather than a prescribed medication was the source of the patient's dyspigmentation."

Finally, a full source (repeated findings of similar data to above publications)

http://dermatology.cdlib.org...

"Consumption of large doses of colloidal silver can result in coma, pleural edema, and hemolysis. Colloidal silver is also toxic to the bone marrow and may be associated with agranulocytosis. The toxic effects of inorganic silver ingested orally in large doses are very similar to any corrosive solution. Such ingestion can result in burning of the throat and epigastrium, leading to abdominal pain, vomiting, and diarrhea. The patient often suffers convulsions and goes into shock."

Clearly, colloidal silver is not free, is not healthy, and can actually be detrimental to your health. Solarman, I remember you stated before that you have two kids. For their sake and yours, PLEASE DON'T TAKE COLLOIDAL SILVER. While silver possesses some anti-biotic properties, they are HEAVILY OUTWEIGHED BY THE COSTS. There is a reason colloidal silver fell out of use during the late 1930s.

At this point I don't care how you guys vote. Solarman, I highly recommend conducting further research before administering colloidal silver to yourself or to loved ones. I may disagree with you on politics and sit on the opposite end of the spectrum, but ingesting colloidal silver is not something to take very lightly. I suggest consulting a medical professional, as recommended by one of the papers I linked to. Don't f*ck around when it comes to your health.
Debate Round No. 1
Solarman1969

Pro

Solarman1969 forfeited this round.
psynthesizer

Con

To anyone still reading this debate, I would really like for all of you to think before considering taking any alternative medicines not officially approved by the FDA. Even better, learn more information on your own through academic channels, rather than random internet ads/websites selling colloidal silver (I smell conflict of interest).

Your body and your mind are the two most important aspects of your life; enrich the mind with knowledge and protect the body from toxins and sloth.

Solarman: based on your debates as far, as well as the imperfect information you have utilized in making lifestyle and health-related choices, I have some doubt in believing you truly came from UC-Berkely. If you can produce a diploma, more power to you, watch out for unscrupulous advertising over the internet. While the internet is a rich source for information, there are atleast 1,000 sites grabbing for your wallet for every academic resource.

While you may not agree or like the information I am presenting to you, that is not justification for calling me a "liar who spouts complete nonsense." Informal though these debates may be, such strong statements are uncalled for, especially considering the fact that you have at no time provided any counter-evidence for my arguments. At least support such claims with proper evidence.

Just because I hate improper resolution wording:

"Collidal Silver is a free way to avoid illness" -- solarman1969

As I have stated, there is no such thing as collidal silver. Under proper debate format, the resolution you posed forwards calls for us to address the medical merits of a non-existent dietary supplement. Unless you can prove the existence of a negative...

But let's move on from your glaring grammatical mistake. Let's focus in on the "free" clause posted under your proposed resolution.

The accepted definition of free in the context of this resolution (flawed though it is) is: "without monetary cost."

So that means that "collidal" silver can be obtained with no monetary cost. However, if I pay any money whatsoever in the process of obtaining colloidal silver, then the resolution is false and must be negated.

In reality, nothing is free. Granted, the internet charges a lot of money for colloidal silver. However, homemade colloidal silver is considerably more dangerous, easier to overdose upon, nor does it pass any true scientific standards (if you're willing to take that many chances...). However, homemade colloidal silver carries not only a social cost with unnecessary risk, but also will invariably cost some amount of money: the supplies necessary, the cost of silver, not to mention the heat required (granted its negligible, but heat is not free), and the amount of time consumed in making colloidal silver (opportunity cost, time really is money).

Colloidal silver not only poses serious dangers to your health, which severely offsets the very limited benefits derived from consuming colloidal silver. Nor is colloidal silver at all free, as there are innumerable different costs that must be placed into the act of obtaining and especially the act of producing colloidal silver.

Solarman, you have one round left, and you have not addressed my arguments at all (I would even have taken on information you could have posted in the comments section, as I understand that life can be busy and chaotic). Realize that you have one round left, and no evidence to support your assertion.

But whatever man, just make sure you research this kind of crap out before you start spoon-feeding it to your kids or even to yourself. Again, your health isn't something you want to f*ck around with. Get informed before making such serious medical decisions, at the very least you should consult a proper doctor. That goes for the audience as well, the internet exists as a wonderful medium for exchanging information. Just make sure you are getting that information from a trusted source. I hope this debate has been an enlightening experience for all. Good day.
Debate Round No. 2
Solarman1969

Pro

Ok SCHMUCK "mr synthesizer" or whatever LIES you put forth

YOU ARE A preundergrad SCHMUCK WITH NO SCIENCE TO back you up FOOL

Read this SCIENTIFICALLY REVIEWED PEER REIVEWED ARTICLE SHOWING THE UNBELIEVABLE EFFECTIVENESS OF SILVER IONS MURDERING e cOLI

then get back to me SCHMUCK

http://aem.asm.org......

from

http://en.wikipedia.org......

reference # 8

FOOL

IDIOT

SCHMUCK

GET A LIFE AND LEARN

then

MAYBE

you can argue with the MASTER

SOLARMAN

COLLOIDAL SILVER IS THE ANSWER TO PATHOGEN DESTRUCTIONB KIDS!

NEVER GET A COLD AGAIN!

I HAVENT HAD ONE IN 15 YEARS

NONE OF MY KIDS HAVE EVER HAD ONE- EVEN THOUGH ALL THEIR FRIENDS CONSTANTLY GET SICK AND HAVE HORRIBLE TIMES WITH ILLNESS

LISTEN TO ME - NOT THESE PREUNDERGRAD SCHMUCK KIDS

OR SUFFER

OR SUFFER

HEAR ME ?

I HOPE YOU DO

SOLARMAN
psynthesizer

Con

Alright ladies and gentlemen still reading this debate, it's time to do a line-by-line breakdown of my opponent's final assertions! Solarman's words will be in quotes followed by his name. My rebuttal will be underneath. Let's go!

"Ok SCHMUCK "mr synthesizer" or whatever LIES you put forth" –solarman

I have not put forth any lies. All of my evidence can be found on most medical databases. All of my arguments are supported by scientific experimentation. Schmuck.

"YOU ARE A preundergrad SCHMUCK WITH NO SCIENCE TO back you up FOOL" ---solarman

Did you hit caps lock by accident? Or are you simply incapable of getting your point across without the use of big letters? I have the feeling someone is compensating for something else. D:

I ask my opponent to once more review some of the links I have posted up throughout this debate before he makes claims about the validity of my arguments.

"Read this SCIENTIFICALLY REVIEWED PEER REIVEWED ARTICLE SHOWING THE UNBELIEVABLE EFFECTIVENESS OF SILVER IONS MURDERING e cOLI" –solarman

Before I do that, let me ask you to read the resolution of this debate that you put forth:

"Collidal Silver is a free way to avoid illness" –solarman

We are debating the merits of colloidal silver. Not silver ions. Believe it or not, there is a difference between the two.

Perhaps you should read the article you posted up yourself.

If you do, you will probably be surprised that the experiment was performed in vitro and not within a human body. The experiment used a solution of SILVER NITRATE.

While SILVER NITRATE can kill E. Coli, it is can also kill people. You seem to like wikipedia, here's a factoid about SILVER NITRATE from them:

"As with all silver salts, silver nitrate is toxic and corrosive.[9] Little exposure to the chemical will not produce immediate or even any side effects other than the purple skin stains, but with more exposure, side effects will become more noticeable. It is also very poisonous and can cause burns. Long-term exposure can cause permanent blue-grey staining of eyes, mouth, throat and skin, (argyria) and may cause eye damage. Short contact can lead to deposition of black silver stains on the skin. Besides being very destructive of mucous membranes, it is a skin and eye irritant."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"COLLOIDAL SILVER IS THE ANSWER TO PATHOGEN DESTRUCTIONB KIDS!

NEVER GET A COLD AGAIN!

I HAVENT HAD ONE IN 15 YEARS

NONE OF MY KIDS HAVE EVER HAD ONE- EVEN THOUGH ALL THEIR FRIENDS CONSTANTLY GET SICK AND HAVE HORRIBLE TIMES WITH ILLNESS" –solarman

Yeah, anecdotal claims are two worlds apart from scientifically derived data. Based on this claim alone I know for a fact that you didn't go to UC-Berkely as you have claimed previously in the past. Liar.

"LISTEN TO ME - NOT THESE PREUNDERGRAD SCHMUCK KIDS" --solarman

I believed this preundergrad schmunk kid just took you on in hopes of an intelligent debate, instead getting a sham of an argument in return.

But I'm not finished yet. Here's some interesting evidence that should get you a little sick in the stomach:

http://www.fda.gov...

COLLOIDAL SILVER IS PROHIBITED BY THE FDA FOR TREATMENT IN ANIMALS.

Let me put this into perspective: my opponent is advocating the use of an alternative "medicine" that is not even cleared by the FDA for use in animals. Colloidal silver is explicitly outlawed in all food-producing animals by the FDA, on the basis that doing so would constitute a serious public health risk.

If it's not even cleared for use in food-producing animals (as a Californian, I'm sure my opponent is familiar to the treatment of food-producing animals), then why the f*ck would you willingly ingest colloidal silver, upon the flimsy pretext of anecdotal "evidence"?

And I'm still not done, according to the same article:

"...could potentially endanger the health of the animal by delaying timely, appropriate treatment."

In other words, colloidal silver is actually detrimental to your health, as it can often stop other more effective treatments from working properly. So when you decide to hop off the loony-bus and start taking actual medication, your body will probably not respond properly anymore! You'll probably die!

This hasn't been my best debate. My opponent has put forth little to no arguments to support his assertion that colloidal silver is a free way to avoid illness. I believe that I have sufficiently proved this to be the opposite case, while debunking my opponent's one piece of evidence, which wasn't even related to the resolution at hand and actually supported my counter-claim.

Solarman1969, on the basis that you lied about your attendance of UC-Berkely, I highly doubt any other information you have posted about your personal information on here (I already doubt all of your political claims). As such, I doubt you have two kids. And if you do have two kids, get them the f*ck off of colloidal silver you dumbass. You can endanger your health for negligible health benefits heavily outweighed by the immediate dangers of consuming colloidal silver, but don't screw with your kids' health.

I just realized something; maybe your rabid dementia-like postings are related to the fact that you drink colloidal silver! Maybe you should stop drinking that sh!t. Just a friendly suggestion, because I know you sure as hell can't listen to scientific evidence. Schmuck.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
believe whatever you want

I could really care less

One day you will grow up and listen, children

to your elders

like SOLARMAN
Posted by PublicForumG-d 9 years ago
PublicForumG-d
Excellent writing Psynth.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
that's really funny. busted!
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
Ouch. It would appear you responded with the wrong account. I suppose that's why debate.org doesn't let people edit their comments.
Posted by sweatycreases2 9 years ago
sweatycreases2
Avoiding addressing everything I stated with such a reply only serves to further my point. It would seem that you consider anyone with an opposing view point to be an idiot, or a moron, or a fool; hence your statement that "Until all the morons who dont think that collidal silver is an incredibly effective and non toxic means of pathogen destruction are convinced otherwise, I have a job to do and I will continue to argue for peoples health".

Nothing you've stated offends my sensibilities, which for the record are in no way delicate. I just thought I'd point out that if you truly cared about convincing those opposed to your stance on colloidal silver otherwise, you would try to present your case in such a manner that didn't lead them to believe that you're some mindless Neanderthal, since the notion seemed to be escaping you.

How is it that someone with a MS in Chem E and Mech E with 20+ years in Biochem, Pharamcology, and Epidimiology end up with such a lack of rationality?
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Ill call idiots idiots

and fools fools

all day long

if it offends your delicate sensibilities

thats your problem
Posted by JasonMc 9 years ago
JasonMc
Solarman, every time I read one of your debates, you resort to insulting your opponents or anyone that disagrees with you in a comment. Basically, what you're doing is attempting to belittle those opposed to your views, or put yourself up on a pedestal in order to feel empowered by compensating for your own insecurities (hence stating "Im the Man" on your profile). This makes you look weak to those who don't have to resort to name calling in order to feel OK with themselves.

You may not notice it, but this makes you look foolish to everyone reading your debates. It undermines your credibility, therefore no one takes what you say seriously. I'd figure that someone with a MS in Chem E and Mech E with 20+ years in Biochem, Pharamcology, and Epidimiology would have a pretty firm grasp on such a concept.

You may be absolutely right about colloidal silver, but you'll never convince anyone when you're calling them names. Grow up.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Again the morons chime in

Kids with NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING trying to argue with a MS in Chem E and Mech E with 20+ years in Biochem, Pharamcology, and Epidimiology

"You have provided no relevant scientific evidence whatsoever"

"Put up, or shut the f*ck up"

Oh Poor baby!

Why dont you go home to mommy and cry?

"I pointed out information misrepresentation in your sources and logic thus far." This debate is over"

Oh I dont think so.

Until all the morons who dont think that collidal silver is an incredibly effective and non toxic means of pathogen destruction are convinced otherwise, I have a job to do and I will continue to argue for peoples health

So nice try, fool, but you lost , whether you think so or not, if you dont get it

SILVER IS THE ANSWER

NEVER GET SICK AGAIN!

SOLARMAN
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
I hope Solarman doesn't actually give his kids colloidal silver. If I did, I would pay a lot more attention to the purported negative effects thereof, rather than ignoring all criticisms.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
Solarman didn't you mention before that you are a scientist of some sort, with a master's degree? What is your degree(s) in exactly?
24 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
Solarman1969psynthesizerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: observe the debate.
Vote Placed by drhead 4 years ago
drhead
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con since while he did lose it a bit, it is understandable given how much of a jerk Solarman was being. S&G to Con. Hands down. Arguments to Con. Again, this requires no evidence as it is plainly observable. Sources to Con.
Vote Placed by Smithereens 4 years ago
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