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-(!!!SPOILERS!!!)- Jon Snow in the future... -(!!!SPOILERS!!!)-

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/16/2015 Category: TV
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 626 times Debate No: 76606
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
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I have a few predictions... basically the only logical ones. I want to discuss what could happen and why.

Since Jon Snow was stabbed repeatedly at the end of S5... Is he

1. Dead.

2. Alive.

3. About to be resurrected.

4. About to take the role of Lady Stoneheart.

5. About to take the role of Cold Hands.

6. About to warg into his dire wolf.

7. About to turn into something not completely human, but has no affiliation with the previous numbers.

I would like to discuss this seriously...

No trolling

No swearing

No judging

No whining

Please lets discuss :)



Hi there friend. I myself am an avid fan of "Game of Thrones", as well as a reader of the book series. Before we begin, I would like to aware readers to the fact that I will be using spoilers which encompass the entire series thus far, up to the latest aired episode "Mother's Mercy".
The case of Jon Snow, and his deliberately ambiguous future, certainly is fascinating, and I have a few thoughts on the matter. Before we continue, please tell me friend, what are your thoughts on the matter? What do you think will happen to Jon? Given the wording of your introductory argument, I will assume that this debate is in regards to the television series, unless stated otherwise. Therefore, I believe that Jon, as a character is not, in fact, dead. As the show has shown before, there are numerous ways around death, and the demise of a character is not completely set in stone, especially this far into the series.
An example of the flexibility of death can be seen in episode three of the third season, "Kissed by Fire". After losing in his fight to Sandor Clegane, (AKA: The Hound), Lord Beric Dondarion is revived by the Red Priest Thoros of Myr. If one is to watch the fight in it's entirety, they will see that the injuries sustained by Dondarion are far greater than those that Jon suffered, resulting in immediate death. However, Thoros is able to resurrect him almost immediately, and he is able to retain all of his memories before his "death" (this is proven when he addresses Arya and notes that Sandor is the winner of the trial by combat).
After Stannis's defeat at Winterfell in the finale of the fifth season "Mother's Mercy", the Red Priestess Melisandre flees to Castle Black. A single scene (albeit quite brief) even shows Jon witnessing her return. I believe that director David Nutter would not have included this scene without intending for it to have a greater purpose somewhere further down the line. Melisandre has shown herself an avid believer of R'hllor, The Lord of Light, and has also displayed a great range of supernatural skills which stem from her holy beliefs (the birthing the shadow in S02E04 "Garden of Bones" being an example). Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that Melisandre may heal, or "resurect" Jon, especially considering her past fascination with him, and the fact that he potentially possesses kings blood, if the R+L=J theories are to be believed. Personally, I think Jon is to valuable to Melisandre for her to simply let him die, and therefore believe that she may serve a purpose in saving his character sometime in season six.

Those are my personal ideas on the future of the story. What are yours friend? I look forward to discussing such an interesting and enthralling story with you.
Debate Round No. 1


Unfortunately I am not a reader of the books, although I am aware that the series, for the most part, has caught up to them, even including possible ideas that were going to be added in future books. (the idea that stannis will burn his daughter in the future).

I do recall that episode where Lord Beric Dondarion was revived, however, when I saw Melisandre's reaction to his resurrection, she seemed stunned and in shock that it could happen. I think she will possibly be apart of his return, if he does; although I doubt it will just be a simple resurrection, that would be a stab at the show, no pun intended. I am thinking it will be similar to lady stoneheart or the mountains return. Although I would LOVE the idea for him to come back as cold hands, as we have not seen cold hands in the series and it does not look like he will return.

I remember sam telling olly that jon always comes back, I think he is coming back, I am not sure as what though. If you also remember that old nights king guy that apparently resurrected all of those dead people, he wasn't a 'bad' guy, he was deluded because of his wife. Personally I believe it could be one of many, the more obvious one is a part resurrection from Melisandra though, my personal favourite would be Jon taking the place of cold hands.


Brilliant thoughts friend. I agree, the scene between Olly and Sam where Sam claims that "Jon always comes back" could indeed serve as a piece of foreshadowig. And while it would be interesting to see Jon take the role of Coldhands, I do not think that will be the case unfortunately. You claimed to have not read the books, which is fair, but may I point out a few pieces of information about Coldhands? Firstly, despite Coldhands dressing and acting similarly to a member of the Night's Watch (i.e: killing a number of mutineers in the aftermath of the Mutiny at Craster's Keep), there area number of reasons why Jon could not take his role. Firstly, Coldhands is first introduced towards the end of "A Storm of Swords", the third novel. He guides Bran and company to the cave of the Three Eyed Crow, and is last seen defending them from wights as they enter said cave. At the end of the fourth season, Bran and co. reach the cave and enter alongside the Children of the Forest, losing Jojen Reed to the wights. Now admittedly, Coldhands may have a larger role in future novels, however, one must consider that it is unlikely that Jon would rise from the dead essentially, desert the wall, find Bran and go from there. It seems too big a coincidence.
Secondly is the fact that Jon is a major player in the game of thrones, while Coldhands is only a reoccurring character at best. I feel as though the producers of the show have already given far too much background and information on Jon's role in the game (see the discussion between Littlefinger and Sansa in regards to Lyanna Stark in season 5, episode 4) to simply reduce him to the role of such a minor character. While it is an interesting thought to entertain, it will most likely not come to fruition.
You also mentioned the possibility of Jon filling the shoes of Lady Stoneheart. While this is a fantastically exciting prospect, I am sad to say that this is unlikely at the most as well. At the end of "A Feast for Crows", Lady Stoneheart is in The Riverlands, leading the Brotherhood Without Banners after the permanent demise of Beric Dondarion. As mentioned before, it has been seen before that the dead retain their memories after resurrection, so it would seem unlikely that Jon would completely abandon the Night's Watch (especially after how desperate he was to defend the wall after the Battle at Hardhome) simple to wage a guerrilla war against the Freys, who haven't been seen since episode 10 of season 3.
It is somewhat possible however, that Jon will be resurrected as a wight. Although, for this to happen, his body would need to come into contact with a White Walker after death. Again, it would also completely disregard all the foreshadowing that the show has put into Jon having a pivotal role in the endgame. If anything, I've no doubt that he will be coming back, however, it probably will not result in him being reduced to a minor or reoccurring role.
Debate Round No. 2


I see, someone made a very compelling case on FB for what could happen.
I will copy and paste it for you.

"Melissandra realized after Stannis's forces deserted him melting the snow wasn't for him to march forward but for her to get back to the wall. There is visible shock on her face for the first time in the series when she learns of the desertion, as if she had an epiphany; Jon was Azor all along. Her seeing snow wasn't metaphorical, it literally meant Jon Snow

This also does two things

1) Ends JSnow's contract to the watch, as it's "until death"

2) gives him the only part of the Azor Prophecy he's missing: born amongst salt and smoke. Red Lady will bring him back through fire

Mel isn't evil, she just got the wrong person. Her actions towards Stannis inadvertently saved Jon several times, it was all the lord of light's plan. Without her telling Stannis to free the North Mance's forces would have taken the wall"

I basically got converted to his idea when he stated it. I'm not sure where he got it from though.


It's a fascinating theory, and one which makes sense. If you were to read the books, the prophecy of "The Prince That was Promised" is one held in high regard amongst several noble families of Westeros, in particular the Targaryens. Essentially, it states that a legendary figure will come into the world, hailed by a red comet (potentially linked to the red comet present during the beginning episodes of season two), and that he will indeed be "born amidst smoke and salt). This prophecy bears striking resemblance to the prophecy of Azor Ahai, a prophecy held in incredibly high regard by the red priests of R'hllor. Essentially, it states that Azor Ahai (a prophet and champion sent by R'hllor during The Long Night) will be born "after a long summer, and when the cold breath of darkness falls on the world". If these two prophecy are indeed one of the same, then this raises a number of noteworthy points:
1 - It would explain Melisandre's fascination with Jon. The Prince That was Promised is highly speculated to be born of the Targaryen bloodline. If Jon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, then this would place him in good standing to be Azor Ahai, or the Prince.
2 - Night's Watch members are sworn to the Watch until death. If Jon were to die and be revived, one may certainly argue that he is therefore freed from his vows, however, Jon is a man of honor, and may thus think conversely.
3 - It would explain several of Melisandre's quotes in the novels (i.e. "I pray to r'hllor for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and all I se is snow). If Jon really was Azor Ahai reborn, it would show that it is indeed foreshadowed, albeit very subtely.

However, this also raises a number of questions.
1 - Melisandre and her use of fire would certainly provide the smoke necessary for the fulfillment of the prophecy, however, the salt is still absent. Unless one were to count salt used in the building of The Wall, this leaves it absent, and therefore voids the entire possibility of Jon being Azor Ahai
2 - The Princes coming is heralded by a red comet. To the knowledge of the viewer, the comet was absent at the time of Jon's birth. When the comet arrives in season two, nothing of major importance is happening to Jon. He is beyond the wall, yet he does not die, he does not partake in any rituals, and he does nothing of major importance to signify him as the Prince.
If Jon truly were to be the Prince, there are a number of plot holes which would first need to be addressed in order to satisfy the stroyline thus far. There is another character however, who may be in better standing to fulfill this prophecy than Jon: Daenerys. Points of interest which place her in this position:
1 - The prophecy may be both literal and figurative in it's meaning. Daenerys was born on Dragonstone amid a great storm (hence granting her the name Daenerys Stormborn). This literal birth would satisfy the salt requirement of the prophecy. Figuratively, one may consider her "born again" after she rose from Kahl Drogo's funeral pyre with her dragons. The pyre would satisfy the smoke requirement of the prophecy, rendering both salt and smoke satisfied.
2 - Daenerys witnesses the comet seconds before she enters the pyre. Again, is the porphecy was figurative, then the comet would certainly herald her second birth.
3 - Daenerys is born of the Targeryen bloodline, hence satisfying that prerequisite.
4 - Maester Aemon Targeryen strongly believes Daenerys to be the prince. As a maester, he is incredibly knowledgeable in regards to the subject, and his views on the matter would be far mroe educated and grounded in reality than anyone else.

However, a number of issues arise if Daenerys truly is the prince.

1 - Obviously, Daenerys is not a male, and therefore cannot be a prince.
2 - All the visions of Jon by Melisandre suggest otherwise, instead proclaiming Jon as the Prince.

Some have previously suggested that both Jon and Dany are the prince/Azor Ahai, however, this cannot be true. For both characters to be a fulfillment of the prophecy, the prophecy of Azor Ahai and that of the Prince must be separate prophecies, one being fulfilled by Daenerys and one being fulfilled by Jon. However,this raises further questions such as which character is which fulfillment, and whether or not these fulfillment satisfy the prerequisites held.

In spite of this however, I find your above theory quite interesting, and certainly plausible. Despite our varying viewpoints, I think it is clear that Jon has a future role to play in the series.
Debate Round No. 3


I agree, either way, we can see he is coming back, when we look at a series, we can usually see why zones are incorporated, the nights watch is focused around jon, it was a couple of his friends but very little to do with them normally.

the walkers are becomming a huge threat and so far we have had 2 PoVs with the walkers, without jon or his friends being alive or in castle black any longer; what is the meaning to even show glimpses of the war? after the starks died, we no longer see anything to do with the allied alliance of the north, we do see the boltons but not until they were really introduced after killing the starks.

with jon snow gone, i don't see any other characters other than davos and mel, but they would just be ostricised. we also have the 5000 white walkers, but they are going into the lands.

i can say for certainty that jon is coming back some how, i see no other reason for melisandre to be there, davos hates her too.

also, you mentioned that jon has honor and would keep his loyalty to the watch... he was just killed by his brothers, he is regarded as a bastard and threw away his only chance of redeeming his name as stark from stannis.

the honor of characters means little when arguably the most honorable person, ned stark apparently slept around with someone, whether it's right or now. he put his honor on the line. if he believes melisandre, he will put his honor on the line, the same as ned


In response to your thoughts, I am in agreement with them for the most part. If the R+L=J theory is to be believed, it would prove Ned's disloyalty to his wife false, as Jon would not be his child. However, as far as slips in morality goes, Ned did betray his own morals in the episode "Baelor" (season one, episode 9) by announcing Joffery as King Roberts son, and therefore the heir to the throne. So if one is arguing a skewed moral basis for the Starks, then it is certainly reasonable to assume that Jon may betray his morals in spite of all that has happened to him.
In regards to the escalating situation at the wall, I find it hard that the showrunners would have included Jon so much and made him such a pivotal point to the goings-on North of The Wall to just simply kill him off. There has been too much character development and too much foreshadowing to just let him go, especially after the events at Hardhome, and the fact that Sam is travelling to Oldtown.
Debate Round No. 4


Kryptic forfeited this round.


A rich and enthralling sharing of thoughts. Thank you for such an interesting discussion friend!
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Kryptic 1 year ago
sorry I'm buisy and there isn't much more to say
Posted by Kryptic 1 year ago
to be honest, it's not really a debate, it's more like ideas, we could always make a debate later on by our personal stances and show why ours is right and the others aren't
Posted by Emma.Leah3 1 year ago
So what is the debate and what position are you taking. I am interested in the debate. I have done one or two Game of Thrones debates but I don't understand what the structure of this one is. Anyway, I'll check the comments sections to see. And are we going to debate primarily the book-version (which is what you seem to indicate by the cold hands reference) or primarily the television version which to me seemed more definitive than the books, where there was more ambiguity. It could be interesting to pick a theory and then choose a competing theory.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 10 months ago
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Con. Pro forfeited the final round, which is rarely acceptable conduct in any debate setting. S&G - Tie. Both had adequate spelling and grammar throughout. Arguments - Tie. This wasn't really a debate, and neither side ever really disagreed with the other. In the end, this was nothing more than a discussion between two fans of the series who ended up reaching mutual agreements on very plausible theories. Due to this, arguments remain a tie. Sources - Tie. Neither utilized sources in this debate. I would highly recommend that such discussions as this one remain in the forum section of the website, since it really isn't a debate at all. Great discussion though guys, very fun to read.