The Instigator
PowerPikachu21
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
kgbisafterme
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Salazzle for OU

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/4/2017 Category: Games
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 452 times Debate No: 100568
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

PowerPikachu21

Pro

I'm a competitive player on Pokemon Showdown, and I believe that Salazzle should be used in the OU tier on this website.

Definitions:

Salazzle; A Fire/Poison type pokemon introduced in Sun & Moon. Here's the bulbapedia page: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)

Pokemon Showdown; A site for competetive pokemon fans to create a virtual pokemon team. All the pokemon are already accessable, so no catching, training, or rank ups needed.

OU; Overused; This tier contains very good pokemon, but the better pokemon are in a tier known as Ubers.

Again, we're arguing if Salazzle is a good Pokemon for OU. It's recommended (but not necessary) if you check out videos about Pokemon Showdown, or even try some battles there yourself.
kgbisafterme

Con

I think it's kind of funny that I'm arguing over Pokemon Showdown, but here it goes:

I think the sentiment that you were implying is nice, but why should programmers break their @$$ in half over a minor detail? You can still access it, right? As a person who tried programing (once [and only once]) I can reasonably tell you it ain't (that's on purpose) worth it.
Debate Round No. 1
PowerPikachu21

Pro

I thank kgbisafterme for accepting. I'll go into why I believe Salazzle should be listed in OU tier.

Salazzle is a Poison/Fire type, giving it a number of resistances, such as Grass, Fire, Fighting, Fairy, Bug, and Poison type attacks. Its Same Type Attack Bonus (STAB for short) Fire and Poison type attacks are Super Effective [doing x2 damage] against Grass, Steel, Bug, and Ice with Flamethrower, and Sludge Wave is effective against Fairy and Grass types. This type advantage combined with its high Special Attack and Speed make it a pretty good sweeper (a sweeper is a pokemon that can 1 or 2 shot the opponent's pokemon).

It's also a really good support pokemon. Its ability is Corrosion, which allows it to poison Steel and Poison types, whereas other pokemon can't. If you give it Toxic, Substitute, and Disable, it becomes one of the best Toxic users on Pokemon Showdown (other than Prankster pokemon like Klefki). Substitute creates a barrier out of 25% of the user's HP, allowing it to survive a super effective hit. Then, use Disable to stop that super effective attack from being used again. Create another Substitute, and Toxic.

Its ability to poison any pokemon makes it a very good candidate for OU. So what do you think? I'll respond to your Round 1 and 2 in my next round.
kgbisafterme

Con

Ok, so I'll admit that you are the pro (get it?) at this type of stuff. I still think that it doesn't need to be changed.The process is an ugly way and besides... is it overused? How often is it used in comparison to others? By the I fail to understand how it's abilities makes it a candidate. I believe the Pok(e)mons (please excuse that) are categorized in OU by how often they are used.
Debate Round No. 2
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Salazzle's usage in OU is exactly what we're debating. Salazzle's so good with Toxic, she should be used by more people on Pokemon Showdown. She can be a sweeper, and Flamethrower is effective against a variety of Pokemon, such as Pheromosa (who is Bug/Fighting), Ferrothorn (Grass/Steel, so x4 damage), Kartana (Grass/Steel also), Bisharp (Steel/Dark), and a few others you might see in OU. And those Steel types normally can't be poisoned. But Corrosion allows Salazzle to Toxic them, eventually KOing them, as most people don't use healers like Chansey or Blissey.

Salazzle's resistances and weaknesses are as follows:

Weaknesses: Ground, Psychic, Rock, Water
Resistances: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ice, Poison, Steel
Immunities: None

It only is weak to 4 types, and resists 8 types, quad-resisting (1/4 damage taken) 3 types. This type match up is another great reason why Salazzle shoud be listed under the OU tier.

And I haven't gotten deep into programming, but wouldn't all you'd have to do is list Salazzle as OU? You'll have to explain to me the process of how Smogon (the team that own Pokemon Showdown) changes tiers. Also, the readers would like to know the process so they know what you're talking about. Salazzle's currently listed as "New" in the tiers, meaning she isn't in any tier yet. Whatever process they do will have to be done, even if Salazzle gets listed under UnderUsed (UU) or even RarelyUsed (RU).

In conclusion, Salazzle should be in the OU tier because of her viability of using Toxic, with Substitute + Disable to neutralize any Ground type attacks (which do x4 damage against Salazzle), or any other Super Effective moves. If not for Toxic, then her Special Attack allows her to deal heavy damage to Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, and Fairy types, with Steel being a commonly used type like Katana and Celesteela (Steel/Flying).

And thank you for admitting I know more about Pokemon than you might (no offense meant). But before you post your Round 3, try doing some research on commonly used Pokemon. (Yes, it's called "OverUsed", but usage is one thing. viability is a more important part. Remember that a team in Pokemon, as well as on Showdown, is a maximum of 6 Pokemon)
kgbisafterme

Con

I like where you are going and i would have agreed completely with you if I hadn't known otherwise. To start off, programming is a nightmare and a horrible daydream all rolled into one. I did the three basic courses and they were hell. I kid you not there was actual gibberish I had to type out. I only made a hobby page and a picture of a spinning sun(Gawd!). I've tried making a game too. Not a pretty picture, either. Finally, yeah it is pretty overused. I freely admit some defeat there but in comparison to Rayquaza, Salazzle ain't $h*+ on the overused scale. I can see the light PowerPiachu21.
Debate Round No. 3
PowerPikachu21

Pro

I've had a programming session in my Digital & Interactive Media class, and I can tell you programming is not gibberish. Script is basically another language, like Japanese, Spanish, French, and Italian. It takes a bit to understand it, but when you do, it becomes much easier than the first 3 weeks you started programming. Also, you're just 1 person. Pokemon Showdown is run by Smogon, which is a team. If they created forums, a working battle system, chat rooms, tournaments in said chat rooms, suspect testing (which is "Should this pokemon be this tier, or should we change it?"), you bet they could very well put this one pokemon under OU.

And I noticed you never stated any flaws with Salazzle. I do agree that there's not many things wrong with Salazzle and, while she does have some flaws, those are easily taken care of with Substitute and Disable. Or just her Speed in general. And I think Rayquaza is Ubers, not OU. And of course Rayquaza could take out Salazzle, with Rayquaza being a Legendary and Salazzle not. The majority of Legendary Pokemon, specifically a lot of the version mascots, are Ubers, which is higher tier, with much stronger Pokemon than what OU entails.

Again, the definition of OU in this debate is "A tier with really good pokemon". We're arguing if Salazzle if a good pokemon competitively. So far Con never contested this, dropping or even conceding my suggested move sets and other arguments. I'm glad I got you to see the light. Now let's give this lizard the attention she deserves! Salazzle is fit to be OU tier, with her ability to Toxic anything, and ability to outspeed many pokemon!

I was looking forward to a bit more of a challenge, but I don't feel like Con put in a lot of effort, and isn't as interested in this topic as I am, seeing as how he did no research. Anyways, I do feel like I won this one.
kgbisafterme

Con

You can feel that way cuz' i feel beat and confused. Jeez I don't even care about how people view my spelling anymore. before I finish this debate I got to say one thing; TEACH ME!
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Step 1 of becoming a Pokemon Master: Buy Pokemon Sun/Moon. Or just go right into Pokemon Showdown.
Posted by kgbisafterme 10 months ago
kgbisafterme
Teach me, oh Pokemon MASTER, to catch them all!
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
So what exactly am I teaching you? (I haven't coded in a long time since the course in my school, and I didn't fully understand it, so I won't be able to help on that part)
Posted by kgbisafterme 10 months ago
kgbisafterme
Christ! Dude, I fell into a blender!
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
No offense was meant in my posts. I do see you like Pokemon (though probably not as strongly as I do). But I might reinstate this debate in hopes of a challenge.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
I should've probably listed this video in my Round 4: https://www.youtube.com...

Even if it's not in the debate, I encourage at least Con watch it, just 10 minutes or something. This guy uses Salazzle in an OU battle, and is pretty good with her. If you watch the video, you'll at least see what Pokemon Showdown is, and maybe come up with good arguments in Round 4. (Salazzle's still listed as "New", so she hasn't been given a tier ranking yet. This doesn't prevent you from using Salazzle in an OU battle, though.)
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