The Instigator
PowerPikachu21
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
QueenDaisy
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Salazzle should be in OU (2)

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2017 Category: Games
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 365 times Debate No: 100795
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

PowerPikachu21

Pro

I feel like Salazzle is underused in Pokemon Showdown. This debate is to figure out if Salazzle should be in the OU tier on Pokemon Showdown.

Definitions:

Salazzle; A Poison/Fire type Pokemon introduced in Sun/Moon. Here's the bulbapedia page: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...

It's highly recommended you give it a read.

Pokemon Showdown; An online Pokemon Battle Simulator run by Smogon. All of the Pokemon are there, so no catching, training, or rank ups are needed to get the perfect team.

OU; OverUsed: A tier on Pokemon Showdown that has really good Pokemon. But there are more powerful Pokemon in a tier known as Ubers. (Note that usage is only 1 factor in a tier)

It's recommended if you do research on Pokemon used in OU, as well as Salazzle herself. I await my challenger.
QueenDaisy

Con

That's not how the Smogon tiering system works; OU stands for "Over used", not "Over powered", and any pokemon which sees a usage of 3.41% or larger is considered "OU", and anything with less usage is, by definition, not "OU". Salazzle objectively has not reached the requirements needed to be considered OU.

The closest you can get is arguing that it should be banned to BL, as this would mean OU is the lowest tier it is allowed in, but it's simply not good enough at the moment to do that. It ranks at C in the UU VRs, which makes it mediocre in the tier below OU- it's nowhere near good enough in UU to warrant a ban to BL.

(Source: http://www.smogon.com... )

My opponent has also yet to provide any reason as to why Salazzle should be used in OU.
Debate Round No. 1
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Alright. Here's why Salazzle is a good candidate for OU.

Salazzle has very good Special Attack and Speed, making her a good sweeper. Salazzle effectively fights Fairy, Bug, Grass, Ice, and Steel types. This type coverage allows for many resistances, such as Fighting, Grass, Fairy, and Bug type attacks.

If you don't want Salazzle as offense, there's a set for support as well. Her ability is Corrosion, which allows her to poison Steel and Poison types, whereas other pokemon can not. If you include the moves Substitute, Disable, and Toxic in the move set, then Salazzle becomes a dangerous poisoner. You'd first place a substitute, which makes a barrier out of 25% of the user's HP. Chances are, the opponent uses a Super Effective attack like Earthquake. Since Salazzle has good Speed, she uses Substitute first. Then, after the Substitute breaks, you use Disable so the opponent can't use that move. Place another Sub, and Toxic.

And this debate isn't going to change any tiering on Pokemon Showdown, I know. But we're debating if Salazzle should be in OU, based on how good she is competitively. Current usage is irrelevant to this debate.
QueenDaisy

Con

Salazzle's speed and special attack are respectable, but nothing particularly special.

Salazzle's movepool really brings it down- flamethrower, sludge bomb/wave, and hidden power are effectively its only usable moves, and they are a very weak combination, offering little to deal with many types of pokemon, such as rock.

Salazzle is masively outclassed by M-Charizard Y who has 48 higher base SpA, drought boosts to fire STABs, an a movepool that doesn't suck with access to Solarbeam, Air slash, Focus Blast and many other moves which give it much better coverage.

Heatran, Volcarona, Victini, Chandelure, Infernape, Volcaneon, Arcanine, Infernape, Entei and countless other fire-types outclass salazzle in similar ways.

Likewise, Slazzle is outclassed as a poison type by many mons like Gengar, Crobat, Venusaur, Scolipede, Nihilego, and Nidoking, just to name a few.

Corrosion is a bad gimmick, and serves no competitive use, although it is entertaining to play with.

Salazzle is nowhere near good enough to be used viably in the OU tier. There's a reason it's C-rank in UU, and it will most likely end up seeing its only niche emerging in RU when the RU tier has finished being build.
Debate Round No. 2
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Salazzle's still good for support. A poisoned pokemon would slowly lose HP, and if they're badly poisoned (the specific status Toxic does), the opponent will lose more HP per turn. And having a pokemon with Venoshock makes for great sweeping capabilities, as Venoshock deals lots of damage to poisoned pokemon.

And how is Corrosion not a good ability? It's perfect for weakening the opponent!
QueenDaisy

Con

As something to dish out poison, Salazzle is, once again, hopelessly outclassed; Chansey is way bulkier and has recovery and a good defensive typing. Salazzle, however, has no recovery other than in rest and passive recovery in leftovers, and has a horrible type defensively (weak to ground, water, psychic, and rock). Other mons which outclass Salazzle for setting poison:
Blissey, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Amoongus, Crobat, Gliscor, Klefki, and Tentacruel, just to name a few.

Venoshock is hilariously unviable on any team which doesn't have toxic spikes, and having toxic spikes makes Salazzle setting poison redundant.

Corrosion is bad, and anyone who understands the current metagame recognises this. If you think otherwise, you'd have to justify why it's good, but you have failed to do so.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 9 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Now that I think about it... do you need to poison Steel and Poison types? And some Pokemon do outspeed Salazzle, making her useless. I may or may not swap out Salazzle in my team.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: FuzzyCatPotato// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Con pointed out that OU doesn't mean what Pro means -- and Salazzle doesn't fit into it. As such, Con has negated the resolution.

[*Reason for removal*] The voter is required to specifically assess arguments made by both sides. That requires more than just stating that one side was shown to be off topic.
************************************************************************
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
@FuzzyCatPotato You didn't state how Con proves the resolution wrong, merely that 'she did'. I'm gonna have to get that removed, as per RFD standards.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
I'm genuinely curious. Corrosion poisons all pokemon. How's it a bad ability?
Posted by PowerPikachu21 10 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Company? What company do you mean?

Also, I feel like QueenDaisy won't go easy on me.
Posted by kgbisafterme 10 months ago
kgbisafterme
Hail the undeniably indisputable Pok(e)mon master! And company.
Posted by kgbisafterme 10 months ago
kgbisafterme
Team PowerPikachu21!
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