The Instigator
hmk
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
mrweese
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Salvation / Justice Paradox - all people shall be saved

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/25/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 189 times Debate No: 91849
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

hmk

Pro

Christianity universal statements: There is a God that will reward all good people with eternal bliss and all bad people with eternal damnation, giving to all equal chances, unconditional love and perfect justice. There is free will. There is no predestination. Children (give or take until 7 years old) are innocent and therefore cannot be bad.

Fact: Presuming Hitler died as a child, he would have been rewarded eternal bliss.

Question: Do we really have equal chances? Don't you wish you have died a child so you can enjoy eternal bliss?

Conclusion: Given that there is a God as stated by Christianity, all people shall be saved and enjoy eternal bliss.
mrweese

Con

I disagree with the argument that all people will gain salvation on multiple levels:

1) Questions of salvation are irrelevant in a world where there is no proof that salvation will occur to any humans. It is safe to assume that no one will achieve salvation because there is no god to grant us that salvation in the first place. In my opponent's post, they provided no objective proof or deductive reasoning for god's existence because there simply is none -- the existence of god can't be proven with the scientific method and is an inherent paradox (i.e. if god is all powerful, then can he make a boulder more powerful than himself, etc). If my opponent cannot provide sufficient evidence for the existence of god then you cannot grant them any claims to the salvation powers of this figure.

2) There is no such thing as free will. Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and countless other scientists have come to the conclusion that free will cannot exist through a series of falsifiable and objective experiments -- electrons in the brain (i.e. the things that make us do what we do and think what we think) act in causal relation to one another. Everything in the world exists in a cause and effect relationship and all of our actions are undertaken due to a set of pre-existing circumstances in our environment that make our brains function in a certain way. Therefore, the "Hitler child" you discussed will already be pre-conditioned to be genocidal and cruel from a young age, or at least be developing genocidal tendencies, due to elements in his upbringing.

3) The idea that all people will be saved, if true, is morally reprehensible. Hitler, who killed millions of Jews, Ghengas Khan, who killed 40 million people in one war, Mao Tse Tung, who burnt Chinese teachers in factory chimneys, and Stalin, who killed almost ten million Russians and left millions more starving, would all be accepted into a place of eternal bliss as a form of reward for their actions. Actions should have consequences and negative actions should have negative ones -- you wouldn't let a criminal get off scott-free so you should apply this same logic to theology. Additionally, the idea that we will all achieve salvation rationalizes and promotes acts of violence -- what's to stop violent criminals from killing, raping, and stealing if they'll all achieve infinite bliss?

Looking forward to a productive and intellectually stimulating debate!
Debate Round No. 1
hmk

Pro

You did not present any argument within the debate. We are not questioning the existence of God, free will or salvation. We are debating a paradox that rises between the boundaries of these statements. You do not understand apriori reasoning.

Is there a way to invite more opponents who can bring in valid arguments?
mrweese

Con

mrweese forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
hmk

Pro

hmk forfeited this round.
mrweese

Con

mrweese forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
hmk

Pro

hmk forfeited this round.
mrweese

Con

mrweese forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
hmk

Pro

hmk forfeited this round.
mrweese

Con

mrweese forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by I_Wanna_Rawk 12 months ago
I_Wanna_Rawk
I would like to debate Pro on this when he is finished with this debate.
Posted by skipsaweirdo 12 months ago
skipsaweirdo
Con makes a ridiculous argument against God as usual by straw manning God as not all powerful. Omnipotent means that which nothing of greater power can exist. Hence you are claiming something can be created greater than God, the boulder example, if God is God. Clearly you misunderstand logic. Not a bad premise everyone will be saved. After all, if you are judged in the same manner that you judge then saying everyone is saved means God has to judge you as being saved.
Posted by I_Wanna_Rawk 12 months ago
I_Wanna_Rawk
I would love to debate this, but I currently am in one, and don't have the time. I will when I am finished though! (If it is still unaccepted)
Posted by Elias_is_the_llama 12 months ago
Elias_is_the_llama
Instead of telling me he's an idiot, explain how he's an idiot.
Posted by ViceRegent 12 months ago
ViceRegent
This ignorant fool clearly has no idea what Christianity teaches. Do not waste your time on this one.
No votes have been placed for this debate.