Same-sex Marriage vs Religion
Debate Rounds (3)
i will be form with what i will say, at the same time since people get emotional over these kind of matter, i will try to not hurt anyone, and answer directly from the Bible view.
first of all the question that we should ask ourself is, DOES GOD APROVE SAME SEX MARRIAGES?
IF YES WHY? AND IF NO WHY NOT?
i believe when you know this, all the other questions that will come in your mind, you will have plenty of source to reason on.
AND TURNING TO THE BIBLE TO GET THE ANSWER, THEN WE CAN APPLY WHAT GOD'S VIEW TO THIS MATTER IS. AND FROM THERE YOU CAN MAKE YOUR CHIOCE BY REASONING.
why do Christian believe that a marriage should be only female and male? well lets see what the Bible says:
Our Creator established rules governing marriage long before governments began regulating the institution. The opening book of the Bible tells us:
"A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh."
The Hebrew word "wife," according to Vine"s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, "connotes one who is a female human being." Jesus confirmed that those yoked together in marriage should be "male and female.""Matthew 19:4.
The well-known Biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah reveals God"s feelings about homosexuality. God declared: "The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy." (Genesis 18:20) The extent of their sinful depravity at that time was apparent when two guests visited the righteous man Lot. "The men of Sodom . . . surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob. And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: "Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intercourse with them."" (Genesis 19:4, 5) The Bible says: "The men of Sodom were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah."
As you may have heard, but God destroy the city of Sodom, and he consider homosexuality a sin, Keep in mind that God can see what is in our heart.
and he made it very clear that he does not want man sleeping with another-men.
getting married is a privilege, but since i really dont want to go into the fincial benefits, but you did mention two married couple who are unable to have a child of their own, having kids is not the solid reason behind married, it is a privilege given to human by God. God intended marriage to be a permanent and an intimate bond between a man and a woman. Men and women are designed to complement each other so they may be capable of satisfying each other"s emotional, spiritual, and sexual needs and desires.
and not just that God said plainly. He commanded his ancient people: "You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.""Leviticus 18:22.
this is something that God knew we human would get tangle in it, his command where very strait about it.
A lot of people who are against gay marriage go into the very fine details of the bible to find extracts from lots of sections (so sorry but I'm not a devoted Christian, I've never read or looked at any other parts of the bible that didn't include stories from my religion education syllabus!) to make sure that they can find one little sentence that will back up their point of view.
So we've established the point that Catholics are against same sex marriage because God forbids it. But doesn't God also forbid cheating on your spouse? And stealing from thy neighbour ? Why aren't Catholics condemning people who cheat on their husbands and wives ? We choose to ignore these simple, much more serious issues for the more relevant and controversial ones such as same sex marriage.
But lets look at it from your view: socially, politically, economically.
(I'm an Irish citizen so things may be different here than they are in other countries like the States and the UK. My arguments are from my country's perspective.)
The only way I can describe my next point is by using an anecdote. My good friend's father is a homosexual. He lives with his partner in central Dublin. They have two cats and share an apartment together, but the apartment is under his name even though they both pay the mortgage on it. A couple months ago, the man became very ill. Cancer had attacked. Now a gay person is no different to everyone else. They have eyes, ears, toes, arms. Cancer hits them the exact same way. He died a couple weeks after he was diagnosed. The problem then came about that his next of kin was his spouse, John. Now as I told you, John had shared this apartment with the man and he had left him a sum of money in his will. BUT. Because there are no laws in Ireland allowing same sex marriage, the state did not recognise their relationship. After 10 years of being together, John was left with nothing. Gay people have no rights in the eyes of the law without marriage. They cannot do simple things like everyone else for example making a will.
I do not think same-sex marriage hinders the law or the political status of Ireland. So how will same-sex marriage be a political issue? Because these people can now be treated equally to everyone, the politics of the world is going to go as the old Irish proverb says "bun os gcionn" ? The government isn't going to have a melt down if we pass same-sex marriage. The world won't end with same sex marriage. It baffles me how anyone thinks it could.
I did that because you specifically said "I don't understand why people are so against same sex marriage on the basis of religion, especially Catholics"
You also said "I have been researching into why people oppose gay marriage on the terms of religious beliefs and the majority of people have said that they don't want same- sex couples to be married purely because they believe that marriage is a ritual for child bearing"
I showed you the reason, and the view of Christian on that matter, keeping in mind that your debate was focus on "SAME-SEX MARRIAGE VS RELIGION"
You then stated "My argument against this isn't exactly an argument but more a question."
Question which I believe I answer using the Bible.
Why am I summarizing our previous talk? Because you started out by totally dismissing the The whole religious view of this, and I do believe that was what I'am standing for.
"so sorry but I'm not a devoted Christian, I've never read or looked at any other parts of the bible that didn't include stories from my religion education syllabus!."
I really do not care how devoted you are to your believes, the whole point of a debate is from my point of view is to learn and reject what you don't agree with.
If you do not have much knowledge of the Bible, how can you say people find little sentence that will back their point of view?" The bible is not written in chronological order, and it is not like any story book, it is written in chapters and verses, what is in a verse cannot be change, it's like a law book, once it is written, if someone take a little part of it to SUPORT their argument, you will know where they took that sentence from, and you go and view it yourself and correct them if needed.
"But doesn't God also forbid cheating on your spouse? And stealing from thy neighbour"
I'm sure you and I can com to an agreement that cheating on your spouse and stealing are not the same as marrying someone who is the same sex as you, even worse having sex with the same sex. Once again this is where knowledge of the Bible is needed. You need to understand the punishment and Gods view on these matter. You cannot compare them as if they are the same type of crime, you cannot compare a second degree murder to terrorism.
"But lets look at it from your view: socially, politically, economically".
I could have talk about it from these view, but I would be getting of your focus of this debate. Which is again "SAME-Sex VS RELIGION"
Ok let me enlighten you a bit, here is my version. When slavery was still around slave did not have any right at all, unless given by the slave owner, they are also human just everyone else. But they where just not recognize by society as a free human with free will. Them being free was not going to hinder the laws either, so how will treating someone equally be a political issue?
You see where we are going? Of track that is where we are going. However I am not dismissing your argument, to ask question like how will this effect everyone? And what does politic have to do with it. I don't know much about Irish, because I will need to know politics and how this matter is in effects, same as other field, I have no problem doing that, but this debate is just not in that field, yet, extended then sure why not.
and I also think you are overlooking the fact that this is the only generation that is trying to even allow conversation about this. This gay thing did not started today, and for the fact that it's been hidden for society for so many era, people back then new something was not nature about it, and by natural I mean, having a men having sex with another men. I truly give this generation credit, and those that are squeezing since into that whole pictures.
This is a major thing, and everything that is said about it should be thought of carefully, going into personal view, men have different quality, no mater what type of drugs they take, same for females, I truly believe that every child whether a girl or a boy need to be expose to each of these quality, from a men and a women. Maybe some might say men can also provide the same quality of love for a child as a female. I strongly disagree with that, I know how it feels like when I was a child, when my dad touch me just to put me to sleep, like rub my head, or pick me up, with my mother it felt different, even when I was not fully awake, I always knew who was picking me up and putting me to bed, yes today their are pills to change men voice into female, but if my dad sounded like my mom, and my mom sounding like a men, I'm not sure of the scientific effects of that, but it will have an effect on me.
Notice how your story was more focus on the finical benefit of gay people? Well what about their other issues we have to face, issue like will a mother allow her sun to have a gay teacher in school? Or should gay men be allow in the same watch room as non gay? What about laws for gay people and what kind of law will their be? Their are laws for male and female on just about everything? Is fair for athletes as well, will their be an Olympic for gay people? And how will you decide if a gay athlete is a men athlete or female athlete? I see a lot of confusion at certain corner here. So I guess it does have its effects on politician in some ways.
coldplayforlife forfeited this round.
im eating one right now.
to bad you cant have any, im truly sorry about that.
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