The Instigator
Dilara
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Thirstforknowledge
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

Sandy hoax. The actors got free houses before the shooting!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Thirstforknowledge
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/29/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,330 times Debate No: 58321
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (40)
Votes (4)

 

Dilara

Pro

Most of the people who live in the village of sandy hook including the people who "lost children in the sandy hook school shooting" got free houses on December 25 2009-3 years before the "shooting".
You can look at assessors online data base for your self or watch the video "sandy hook school shooting actors for FREe houses" by LogicBeforeAuthority.
Please don't be closes minded. Don't comment on how offensive and stupid you think this is. Actually look at the facts and try to debunk my claim.
Keep in mind the "shooting" happened on December 14 2012. The actors got free houses in December 25 2009. Don't tell me they got these houses as gifts because if their "loss". They got the free houses three years before the sandy hook event.
Thirstforknowledge

Con

In this debate Pro has the BOP ( burden of proving) the Sandy Hook Hoax and that the government provided free houses for the victims' parents, and the teachers. Throughout the debate I will give logical answers to the some of the arguments Pro makes. Now I will refute Pro's statement on the free houses. First the truth is that most Newtowners have $0 listed on their houses in 2009. Properties bought in the last few years show their values, those bought before the last reassessment are simply listed as $0. This is true for all towns in Connecticut, although they have different dates. Instead of just listing the property sales of the past years they list all properties regardless of a transaction or not. They then simply list the properties that have not been sold in the last 5-10 years as $0. Their reasoning behind this is to help them calculate the sales tax on the transaction because in Connecticut taxes are based on 70% of market value. As with the transaction being recorded on December 25th, one can blame this one harmless procrastination, because the reassessments are due at the end of the year on December 31th,2009. Source-https://www.metabunk.org.... I will now move on to some points as to how the hoax is fake.

1.There would be to many people involved in the conspiracy. In order for the conspiracy to be true the whole village of Sandy Hook would have to be onboard, that is roughly 5,000 people not including the people in the media and government that are included in most conspiracy theories. The government would in your senario have to pay off the whole town to keep them quiet, that would require a lot of money. Odds are someone goes public with the story. Lastly childrens' minds are completely unfiltered so odds are they say something while being interviewed that indicates that it was rehersed, but they didn't.
2. If this was a plan to introduce gun control laws then why were there so many inconsistenties in the stories presented by the media? If it was pre-planned the media would be prepared to present a clear and united story, not multiple theories on every network. Also the goal would be to ban semi-automatic guns as presented by conspiracy theorist, but then why would some media outlets report Lanza using a shotgun and handguns it takes away from the "assault rifles are bad" message. It is because it wasn't pre-planned because the media gave a very murky interrpation of what happened at the school.
3. If all of the victims are truely actors then why is there no photos of them after the shootings?
Now that I have debunked this conspiracy theory can we please give the families of the victims the respect they deserve.
Debate Round No. 1
Dilara

Pro

You make good points. I still don't buy it. I'm not saying the entire town is in on it. I'm saying that some of Newtowns people including Gene Rosen and the victims "families" are actors who are doing this to promote gun control and to make money. Each family has been given $281,000 by the state and some have even made more from their donation sites. They're still asking for more. That's how they're being payed. They did a bad job of it. Remember that interview with Robbie Parker? First he laughs and than gets into character and begins acting all sad. He didn't know he was being filmed--so we all got to see him laugh abut his "dead daughter". Than he have very specific instructions on how to donate to his family--your daughter was killed and your thinking about money?. People are even donating to Gene Rosen. He didn't loose anyone in this event. No years, laughter, smirks. I'm sorry these "parents" are actors.
Thirstforknowledge

Con

I will now refute my opponent's points.
1.Gene Rosen of Newtown,Connecticut is not an actor he is a retired physchologist. You are thinking of another Gene Rosen that is a member of the screen actor's guild and is 69. The helpful neighbor from Newtown is 62. Source-http://www.theblaze.com...
2.Yes the government gave the victim's families money but this is common of the government to give aid to those affected by natural disasters and other man-made distaste ds like the one at Sandy Hook.
3. Donation sites give money for therapy and community events to remember those lost in the shooting, they don't just straight-up hand the families a check.
4.First I will provide the link to the the Robbie Parker interview, http://youtu.be.... Sorry if their is an issue with the link( I'm not good with computers). Yes Robbie Parker can be seen smiling before the interview, but does one parent smirking before an interview prove that the massacre at Sandy Hook was a hoax. I think not, Robbie Parker may of just remembered that his daughter was in a better place. What you may see as getting into character is a man reviewing what he is about to say. Also he may have been a little shy, not everyone is as perfect as conspiracy theorist expect. If you watch the interview Robbie Parker doesn't give specific directions to donate to his daughter's donation site he simply states that his friends set up a Facebook page and that a large number of people have posted comments.
6. Yes he did a bad job acting because he is not an actor, a professional actor would of kept his eyes focused on the camera at all times and he did not do this.
7. I am asking Pro to provide evidence to support her claim that the victims and their parents are actors. Pro has not backed up any of her claims with sources.

Here are some further arguments of mine.
1. Here is a link to the photos from the second police report on Sandy Hook Source-http://photos.denverpost.com...
2. The police have discovered dozens of bullet holes, fingerprints, and other physical evidence that all leads to Adam Lanza. All of the bullets came from a gun bought by his mom. Source- http://m.livescience.com...
3. If this was a government plot to increase gun control it l sure didn't work. There have been about 100 laws regarding guns passed since Newtown, 2/3s of which have lessened restriction on gun rights. You would think that if this was a conspiracy the Feds would realize that a mass school shooting would create an outcry for introducing armed teachers and the philosophy that gun restrictions will take guns away from the good guys. Source-http://www.infowars.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Dilara

Pro

2. They're still asking for more. They have enough money why also they need so much from random people.
4 Robbie Parker is an actor. Keep in mind there are no tears from any of the "grieving" parents in their interviews. They all have a background in drama. Most of them moved to Newtown right before the event. The Greens were from Canada, the Parker's were from Utah, the Richmans were from California, the Wheelers were from NYC, the Hockleys were from England ect.
Also there were people just walking around the firehouse (where the surviving kids were supposed to have been sheltered) in circles. There were 26 Christmas trees behind the firehouse-for 26 people who died in the school--only hours after the shooting. They are said to have been donated from North Carolina. Why would they lie? There were tweets that went out before the event. The united way sandy hook victims fund was set up on the 11th and the sandy hook victims fund was set up on the 10th. There are no pictures on dead people in the school. The "dead kids" sang at the 2013 Super Bowl.
Thirstforknowledge

Con

Rebuttal:
1.Yes most of the donation sites have not been taken down, but I do see how this proves a conspiracy.
2.Yes Sandy Hook is a Upper-Middle class neighborhood, but still funerals and therapy can cost a lot.
3. Robbie Parker is assistant physician not an actor. Source-http://www.cnn.com...
4. Your definition of no tears is different then mine-http://youtu.be...
5.I never knew an assistant physician was considered a drama job?
6. So 6 of the 26 victim's families moved to this town in the last year, for one it isn't that rare for families to move from place to place. Also Newtown is growing economically and prior to the shooting There has only been one homicide so it is a good place to raise a family.
7. Yes it may seem weird that the relief fund was set up before the event but this is very common, if you start to make a Facebook page or website and then change all the content on it without making a new one the original date is kept. So if I was making a Facebook page about some news event but then got word of the Sandy Hook massacre and scrap my current work and start writing about Sandy Hook the date I started working on that other stuff is still kept. Source-http://m.huffpost.com...
8. These are some of the pictures from Sandy Hook. Source-http://www.opednews.com...
The voters must remember that Pro has the BOP.
Debate Round No. 3
Dilara

Pro

2. Funerals don't cost that much and people also donated to Gene Rosen who did not loose anyone in that event.
3. Parker works for a security camera company. If he's a physicians assistant that why was he wearing jeans I the day if the shooting. If he heard there was a shooting at his kids school he wouldn't change from his work clothes first. He's race to the school in his doctor clothes. None of the parents had work clothes-they all came to sandy hook wearing jeans ect when though Newtown in a commuter town. Weird?.
6. You don't find that weird? It's not the main reason that people think this but it's certainly a factor.
What about all the photoshopped pictures. In one picture Emilie Parker's sisters don't have legs. In another picture Emilie is clearly pasted in. There is a straw that becomes transparent once in front of her. A picture of a girl names lily gaubert from Georgia was taken from her moms Instagram and used as Allison Wyatt a victim from sandy hook
Thirstforknowledge

Con

Rebuttal:
1. The average funeral costs between 7,000 and 10,000 dollars also its a child's funeral so they may want to do something special. Source-http://funeral-tips.com...
2. Can you provide a source to back up your claim that Robbie Parker works for a security camera company, as I did that shows that he truly is a assistant physician.
3. Most doctors wear their casual clothes under a lab coat so he didn't have to stop home and change as you would say.
4. The shooting happened on a Friday, Fridays are usually set aside as causal days at work. Source-http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
5. Could you provide a source to these photos, otherwise they can't be used as evidence to back up your claim.
Debate Round No. 4
Dilara

Pro

2. Funerals don't cost that much and people also donated to Gene Rosen who did not loose anyone in that event.
3. Parker works for a security camera company. If he's a physicians assistant that why was he wearing jeans I the day if the shooting. If he heard there was a shooting at his kids school he wouldn't change from his work clothes first. He's race to the school in his doctor clothes. None of the parents had work clothes-they all came to sandy hook wearing jeans ect when though Newtown in a commuter town. Weird?.
6. You don't find that weird? It's not the main reason that people think this but it's certainly a factor.
What about all the photoshopped pictures. In one picture Emilie Parker's sisters don't have legs. In another picture Emilie is clearly pasted in. There is a straw that becomes transparent once in front of her. A picture of a girl names lily gaubert from Georgia was taken from her moms Instagram and used as Allison Wyatt a victim from sandy hook
Source fur Robbie Parker veterans today, Newtown database.
The photos set shown on all the sandy hook web sites, all the major news sites like cnn
Thirstforknowledge

Con

I already refutted my opponent's points from the round 4 and she simply copied and pasted those points and placed them on her round 5 arguments so it would be redonent to repost my rebuttal. As for the sources you had to provide a link and not just veterans today because that is a very large website and would be impossible to check every article and find were you got your data. Same with the supposed photoshopped photos, I have to see them to debunk them.
Throughout the debate I successfully refutted all of my opponent's main points and she never attempted to refute any of my points. This means she accepted my points as valid and therefore the sandy hook massacre. Also Pro never keeps with her same main points showing that she accepts that I have debunked them. Furthermore their were two parts to the debate that Pro had the burdening of proving, that the sandy hook massacre was a hoax and that the victim's families received free houses from the government, after debunking the latter theory Pro never attempts to provide further evidence to support her claim. She failed to meet her burden of proof on both issues meaning Con wins. I provided 12 links to back up my claims while Pro gave no link throughout the debate. I gave logical answers to all of the gaps in information and with this all vote Con.
Debate Round No. 5
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by YamaVonKarma 3 years ago
YamaVonKarma
@Hanspete She can think what she wants. If you think differently, you may be on the wrong site. How dare you claim what someone else can believe.
Posted by Hanspete 3 years ago
Hanspete
Even the thought that Sandy Hook was a Hoax is a disgusting, despicable, and intrepid claim how dare anyone say that how dare you.
Posted by YamaVonKarma 3 years ago
YamaVonKarma
*Hugs David* Thank you!
Posted by DavidM 3 years ago
DavidM
Sorry, the last link didn't post

https://www.youtube.com...

This makes us look stupid and is keeping people away from the real truth. Posting a video in 2014 about a failed 2013 "prediction" (copy and paste from forum) from a con man is obviously insane and extemely irresponsible.
Posted by DavidM 3 years ago
DavidM
The debates on Sandy Hook will continue. The media push disinfo intentionally to keep us distracted from what's going on behind the news stories...Sandy Hook has divided people in the conspiracy research comminity. . This latest generation of so called truthers have unfortunately infiltrated it and are making us all look crazy.

Videos like this also make us look crazy => https://www.youtube.com...

The scammer doesn't even mask his obvious salesman tactics in that video, makes me sick.

Please never use this con man as a "source" again. He can't be trusted. The man is uneducated, a terrible "researcher", and one of the worst scammers I've ever witness in the so called truth movement.

Here's an uneducated sheep posting an old video of a failed prediction from LogicBeforeAuthority just 6 days ago

He got this "info" from a forum that's full of disinfo which is godlikeproductions, he finds stories that are trending and he posts stupid videos about what he finds, often taking the credit for the disinfo. He does this to get more suckers to his channels to donate to him so he can stay on the run and refuse to give his own child a dollar in child support.

So in short, this makes us look bad, and I'm on your side if you're looking for the truth. Use your own research to make your arguments please, and stop listening to peoiple who don't know anything because you will do better without them.

Peace.
Posted by YamaVonKarma 3 years ago
YamaVonKarma
... I suppose he hasn't proved they weren't con men either.
Posted by Dilara 3 years ago
Dilara
I'm aware of what he did. I knew he was some type of con man I just didn't know exacting what he was doing. What about the actors who are draining are bank accounts with their donation sites?.
Posted by YamaVonKarma 3 years ago
YamaVonKarma
As much as I care for Dilara and want her to win... I couldn't call upon the Yama ever again, if I accepted him as a source. 'Course that still doesn't change what the records themselves say. You do still have to prove they made payments on the houses they are living in.
Posted by DavidM 3 years ago
DavidM
He didn't show the world anything, except that he is a con man who owes close to 14 million dollars and steals from people. That's all he showed. His nonsense has been debunked on his channel. He's the laughing stock of the internet, just type in his name.
Posted by DavidM 3 years ago
DavidM
Dilara, of course it matters who he is...he has a reputation for posting the most laughable material on the internet. He rivals Dallasgoldbug. If you're genuinely looking for the truth, your poor judgement will surely hinder you.

THIS is the guy you get your info from:

http://www.adasheriff.org...

That's a joke.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by SamStevens 3 years ago
SamStevens
DilaraThirstforknowledgeTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro copied and pasted her arguments in rounds 4 and 5. Con used sources to back up his claims. The bop was on Pro and was not met in the slightest.
Vote Placed by Phoenix61397 3 years ago
Phoenix61397
DilaraThirstforknowledgeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con basically said it all in their last argument. Con refuted everything said by pro, while pro refuted nothing. Pro's claims were fully unsupported.
Vote Placed by Splenic_Warrior 3 years ago
Splenic_Warrior
DilaraThirstforknowledgeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This was a way easier debate to judge than I thought it was going to be. Pro had the full bop, and Con rebutted every single point with solid sources. I award arguments and sources to Con.
Vote Placed by Mray56 3 years ago
Mray56
DilaraThirstforknowledgeTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: If you're going to debate a conspiracy theory you have to provide sources. Pro failed to provide any sources. Pros uncited arguments were not convincing. "You don't find that weird? It's not the main reason that people think this but it's certainly a factor." The burden of proof is on the pro. Con did a good job rebutting pros arguments, even rebutting the exact same argument twice as pro copied and pasted.