The Instigator
OberHerr
Pro (for)
Tied
3 Points
The Contender
vmpire321
Con (against)
Tied
3 Points

Sangheili Vs. Vampires

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,314 times Debate No: 19795
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (147)
Votes (1)

 

OberHerr

Pro

For those of you who don't know the Sangheili are Halo's Elites.

This debate will follow a simple format

Round 1: Acceptance, State Powers/Weapons
Round 2-4: Debate

Rules
  • The fight will take place in a city, so that the Vampires will not be killed immediately be the Sun, and the Sangheili will still have the advantage of being able to go places Vampires cannot. Neither side can leave the city. There will be NO LIVING THING in this city besides the two opposiong forces. The city will be like modern day London. The city will be fully functional, and be will be as though it had recently undergone a rushed, mass evacuation.

  • There will be no allies, of any sort.

  • There will be no vehicles, or ships of any sort.

If we both feel we are not done with this debate by round 4, there may be a part II.

The Sangheili

The Sangheili are the Elite of the Covenant, as shown by their nickname given to them by UNSC soldiers. They stand on average an imposing 7.2 feet (220 cm) - 8.6 feet (260 cm), and weigh on average 720 lb. (325 Kilograms). They are expert swordsmen, and marksmen. When they were fighting the UNSC they were among the most feared Covenant a soldier could face, surpassed only by the Mgalekgolo (Hunters) in how they were feared on the battlefield. For this debate I will let my opponent decide whether this will be a massive conflict of armies, a squad, or one on one.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...


Weaponry

Energy Sword:
"The Type-1 Energy Weapon is an extremely powerful and effective melee weapon in close quarters combat. A single strike can penetrate through the energy shield systems and into the armor and flesh of a Spartan or a Sangheili. This is due to the design of the weapon which utilizes magnetically sealed, partially ionized, free moving electron based gas rather than traditional shaped, solid matter. Because of this, the Type-1 Energy Weapon's edge is extremely sharp, being able to slice through the toughest metals with ease."

Source:
http://halo.wikia.com...

Dual-Wielded Plasma Rifles: The Plasma Rifle is a close to medium range weapon, and as such can inflict very high damage at range. The Plasma Rifle can also be used at long range if the user fires slowly and aims carefully by leading the target. The rifle is extremely efficient at killing "soft" targets, while doing lethal amounts of damage to a heavily armored target. Enough infantry equipped with Type-25 Rifles can halt enemy infantry advance with its ability to deliver harassing suppressive fire; this tactic is also reflected in the Covenant's combat doctrine: destroy enemy morale with harassing fire from distant or hidden snipers and intimate exposure to the alien-ness of their infantry. SPARTAN-IIs and Elites have the ability to dual-wield plasma rifles, doubling their efficiency in close to medium range combat situations. The plasma rifle's high velocity bolt coupled with its kinetic impact to a target can temporarily stun a target like a SPARTAN-II.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Concussion Rifle: The T50 DER/H fires explosive bolts of superheated plasma. When the plasma bolt hits a surface, it produces area-of-effect damage and a small "kick" to its users and objects. This kick is not, however strong enough to knock away those under the effect of Armor Lock. The plasma projectiles also have a great downward arc to its shots, much like the fuel rod cannon from Halo:CE and Halo 2. The weapon has only seen limited use, its most notable combat deployment being the Fall of Reach. Because of its relative rarity, the UNSC has theorized that its use is restricted either by branch or unit.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Fuel Rod: The Fuel Rod Gun is an extremely devastating weapon in the hands of a skilled player. The destructive power of the Fuel Rod Gun is so effective that human forces often focus all of their attention on infantry wielding the weapon. One strike from a fuel rod will instantly kill any light organic target. Infantry and light vehicles immediately outside of the kill radius are swatted away by the concussive force of the blast. The Fuel Rod Gun is highly effective against lightly armored vehicles as well, able to destroy them with only a few hits. The weapon takes less time to reload than the rocket launcher, holds more ammo in its magazine, has a slight tracking ability, and a higher rate of fire, though it lacks the sheer damage capability and blast radius of its human counterpart.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Beam Rifle: A Particle Beam Rifle is a battery-powered directed-energy weapon that fires ionized particles at its targets, instead of accelerating small projectiles. The weapon is nearly silent, negligible muzzle signature, weighs considerably less than its UNSC analog and inflicts wounds akin to the 14.5mm SRS 99 AM — and is considered by all assessments to be a force multiplication. The use of Particle Acceleration offers two distinct advantages, the first is its damaging properties over the UNSC's sniper rifles, as the ionized particles can pass through material easily, making it effective against targets behind cover. The Type-50 SRS also excels at target penetration, maximizing its lethality, as the beam will always pass through a target completely. Although the size of the wounds inflicted on a target are small, the damage done is similar to most directed energy weapons used by the Covenant.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Needle Rifle: The Type-31 Rifle fires unconventional, long and sharp projectiles similar to the Needler. The projectiles detonate several seconds after impacting on soft tissue.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Support

Plasma Grenades: The description was too long so I will just give a link: http://halo.wikia.com...

Active Camo: To be brief, it makes the user almost entirely invisible when they stand still, and makes it hard to track/spot them when on the move. The slower the user moves, the harder it is to see them.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

Shielding: Energy shields, which are generated by projectors integrated to several different armor systems such as the MJOLNIR or the Sangheili armor, provide the user with an extra layer of protection. However, the shields will collapse after taking multiple shots. It will protect the user's health from damage until it is depleted, and it will regenerate after a rest period. Although the shield protects health, it will collapse after enough continuous fire.

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...


I await my opponents acceptance and his statement of the vampires powers/weapons.
vmpire321

Con

Hmm. Hopefully this will be a fun debate :D...and hopefully I don't fail my brethern


Vampire Abilities:



House of Night, a series of vampire-based fantasy novels by American author P. C. Cast and her daughter Kristin Cast. Some vampires are blessed by the goddess Nyx with special powers, such as an affinity for one or all of the five elements: Fire, Water, Spirit, Air, Earth; or talking to animals; or never being able to miss your target, etc. In this series, vampires aren’t destroyed by sunlight, similar to other vampire novels.



http://www.vampirology.bizhosting.com...
The biggest difference is the fact a vampire gains extreme strength, and has much agility and reflexes. Furthermore, a person’s strength before being turned into a vampire is added to the gained power from becoming vamped. Other benefits include things like smell and hearing. Vampires also have heightened eyesight.
Vampires do not age, and their bodies remain the same forever through supernatural means. Due to this, vampires can suffer terrible injuries yet still recover. Gunshots, swords, and any injuries that are caused by weapons (that aren't wood) can't kill a vampire, but rather only cause pain. Similarly, illnesses do not affect vampires.

Other advantage of the invincible body is that vampires don't need oxygen to survive. However, they can force gases in and out of their lungs.
One more ability is that over time, a vampire's powers will increase, and it might even result in new powers.

====
http://extraordinary.wikia.com...


Adoptive Muscle Memory--
The ability to replicate/copy/mimic/remember any physical action after seeing it performed once.
This may allow the following abilities:

Eidetic Memory-- memorize all kinds of physical action while perceiving it.
Super Stamina--Can preform physical action for intensive periods of time before experiencing tiredness.
Super Vision-- Can perceive physical actions in different degrees, measurements, along with precise detailing.
Tactical Probability--Can foresee the "outcome" of events tactically.
Gravity Manipulation--Can alter the gravity of oneself to perfect a memorized physical action.
Immunity--Has resistance to probability methods, knowledge theft, and attempted pain.


Aerokinesis--
The ability to control, create, or absorb wind/air.
This may allow the following abilities:

Air/Wind Absorption-- Can absorb various types of air to gain access to greater energies).
Air/Wind Projection--Can manipulate and push air from body in different angles and forces.
Air/Wind Formation--Can transform into mist substance.
Sonokinesis-- Can mentally/physically control, generate, and/or absorb sound.
Super Speed--Can move or react at the speed of sound.
Flight-- Can levitate and move in mid-air.
Telekinesis--Can move objects at a distance (with wind).
Atmokinesis-- Can mentally manipulate weather.
Cryokinesis-- Can control, create, and/or absorb ice/cold.
Gravity Manipulation--Can manipulate the gravity of objects with the wind.
Immunity--Has resistance to air/wind, fire/heat, water, and poison.


Force Field Generation--
The ability to produce protective force-field and control them.
This may allow the following abilities:

Energy Absorption--Can absorb all types of energy to fuel or heal oneself, along with others.
Energy Projection--Can exert kinetic energy from your hands or your force-field in different angles and degrees of force.
Energy Formation-- Can generate force-fields in almost any shapes and size.
Levitation--Can kinetically move objects and/or yourself into the air.
Invisibility-- Can remain unseen in plain sight or view.
Mental Manipulation--Can manipulate an individual’s (or group’s)memories, abilities and other brain functions.
Pyrokinesis--Can control fire/heat).
Cryokinesis--Can control ice/cold.
Power Mimicry--Can mimic another person’s ability.
Immunity--Has resistance to time, illnesses, poison, mental attacks, etc.

Summary:
Vampires have a broad range of abilities. These abilities can be combined to form new abilities. For example, super stamina, super speed, and the fact that they do not require air can result in the ability to dig underground to great lengths. Similar abilities can be combined in the same way to result in an new interesting ability.

Debate Round No. 1
OberHerr

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate, and wish him good luck.

Before I begin, I would like to add two things I forgot to put in the weaponry, and support of the Sangheili.

Energy Dagger: The design bears resemblance to the Energy Sword. Unlike the Energy Sword, however, it ends in a single point rather than in dual prongs. The Energy Dagger looks like a miniature Energy sword with a single blade. It is mounted to a device worn on the wrists of the user. It is about half the size of the Energy Sword.

This weapon is mounted on both a Sangheili's wrists and is used much like the Energy Sword, but for closer range.

Source:http://halo.wikia.com...

Regeneration: Though it is something of a mystery, the Sangheili have the ability to regenerate over time, though if they are currently being attacked, they will not regenerate until the fight is over.

Rebuttal

"In this series, vampires aren't destroyed by sunlight, similar to other vampire novels."

I think for this fight we can assume they will be killed by sunlight, as that being one of the most commonly accepted myths on Vampires. Also, it would not hinder them as much, as the fight will take place in a city, so there will be plenty of cover from the sun during the day.

"Gunshots, swords, and any injuries that are caused by weapons (that aren't wood) can't kill a vampire, but rather only cause pain. Similarly, illnesses do not affect vampires."

This I will have to ask my opponent to completely remove, as it essentially makes them invincible from any attack the Sangheili could throw at them.

"Energy Absorption--Can absorb all types of energy to fuel or heal oneself, along with others."

I'm not to sure on the source for a lot of these abilities, and it would be helpful if you could find a source of Vampires actually using them. However I don't have a problem with most of them except this one. I would only ask that it be reduced in power a little, so that 1) It does not heal or fuel the Vampire and 2) It wears out eventually.

Argument

For this debate, since it is squad-based and both sides are armed so powerfully I have decided to use the Field Marshal elite class, which are the most powerful non-named elites you can find on the battlefield.

The Field Marshall rank falls under the Zealot-class, but appears to outrank regular Zealots. Besides leading large-scale ground operations, Field Marshals are known to lead small strike teams comprised of Zealot officers for operations that require both skill and precision to take out key targets to turn the tide of the war/make a key difference.[2]

Source: http://halo.wikia.com...

They are the most powerful and experienced of all the ground fighting Sangheili, having killed thousands of enemies to get their rank. Their shields are strong enough to take a direct hit from a Spartan Laser and not go down(the Spartan Laser destroys most vehicles in the game in one hit).

As you can see the Field Marshal is an very deadly foe, and are not t be underestimated.

Intimidation: I think we can assume that the Sangheili wins out in intimidation. As shown by the images below, they are big, and terrifying enemies. Also, note that since they are among the highest ranking Sangheili, they are most likely among the biggest, and strongest.

This means you could be facing a 8'+ 720lbs.+ alien, roaring at you, with a massive sword made of plasma, that wants to kill you. I would ask you to look at the links below for some pictures.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net...


Weaponry

I will go more in-depth next round on weaponry, since we do have several more rounds, but essentially, the Sangheili's available weaponry would make him an even more dangerous opponent on the battlefield, allowing him to wreck havoc with the Fuel Rod, snipe with the Beam Rifle, fight in CQC with the Energy Sword/Dagger, or just blast away with the Dual-Wielded Plasma Rifles.

Support

Shielding: As I have already stated, his shielding would be a enormous advantage on the battlefield, allowing the Sangheili to be battered by enemy attacks, and not even take a scratch. It also would allow him to have less fear of enemy retaliation, since if he gets attacked, he can take a few hits, retreat, and sneak up on the enemy later.

Active Camo: The AC would also be a big advantage on the battlefield, as even if the enemy can see the haze it makes, it still makes combat much more difficult, as the AC will make it difficult to keep track of the Sangheili.

Regeneration: This is perhaps one of the most useful abilities of the Sangheili. Though it is unknown how, the Sangheili have the ability to regenerate, allowing them to be wounded in combat(after their shields go out), leave, and come back fully healed.

I will focus more on weaponry next round, but for now I think that is enough.
vmpire321

Con

vmpire321 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
OberHerr

Pro

I ask you to re-read my argument, and I await my opponents rebuttal.

Merry Christmas to all!
vmpire321

Con

I am sorry for the forfeit - I loss track of time. ( -.-')

==Arguments==

--
Tactics--
Vampires as a whole have many different tactics that they can deploy. However, for this debate, I shall only introduce the ones I think will be critical against Elites.

1) Digging Underground
As I've stated in Round 1, vampires can combine different abilities to produce new, interesting abilities. Super stamina, super speed, and the fact that vampires do not require air allows them to dig to great lengths and for long times. Now, what use is the ability to dig quickly and far?
-->Negating the Elites' weapons. Needless to say, I doubt that an elite gun has the power to penetrate up to miles underground. Neither do they have the ability to aim at underground targets - you cannot find the vampires.
-->Attacking the Enemy. Since the Elites can no longer find the vampires, the vampires now have the element of surprise. A vampire could choose to dig their way back up into an area behind the Sangheili, or perhaps even drag elites down underground with them. Popping out of the ground, then escaping right after the ambush, will cripple the Sangheili, yet at the same time, protect the vampires.

2)Air Support
Vampires have the ability to manipulate wind/air, which allows them to fly. Furthermore, they have super stamina, can levitate objects into air, and manipulate the gravity of objects. But what does this all mean? Vampires can fly and move objects of great size with them. Since the battleground is London, there are plenty of large objects to drop from great heights, such as cars, buildings, etc.
-->Negating the Elites' Weapons. Not only are they thousands of feet into the air, they also have large objects protecting them. Without a doubt, the Sangheili will not be able to reach these vampires.
-->Demolishing the Elites. Although this has never actually been tested out, hypothetically speaking, an Elite will not be able to survive thousands of pounds being dropped on him/her from a great height.

3) General Protection
Vampires also have a few abilities that give them protection overall, no matter what they are doing.
-->Tactical Probability -- Vampires have the ability to predict the outcome of events tactically. This gives them key advantages in the area of intelligence. I haven't seen my opponent mention one thing about the intelligence level of the Field Marshals (Correct me If I'm wrong).
-->Mist -- Vampires also have the ability to transform into a 'mist' substance. Without a doubt, none of the Sangheili's weapons can kill a gas, as all of their weapons can only damage physical objects. What does this mean? The second a vampire realizes he/she is in danger (See Above), they can escape via mist.
-->Shields -- Vampires also can generate and create force-fields in almost any shape or size. This can protect them from the Elite's weapons.
--> Mental Manipulation-- Vampires can change and alter the memories of an individual or group. This is critical, because what use can the Sangheili be, if they can't even remember how to communicate? Or perhaps they will forget their purpose in this battle, or who's their enemy.
-->Invisibility -- Vampires can remain unseen in plain sight or view. This gives them the element of surprise.
-->Energy Absorption - My opponent mentioned this in his 'rebuttal', and I will expand on it later. But for now, vampires have the ability to absorb energy and regenerate themselves.
-->Endurance. A vampire has somewhat of a resistance towards pain, which allows them to endure more.

4) General Combat
--> Fire, Ice, and Sound. Vampires can control and manipulate all of these. I'm going to assume that the Sangheili have ears, and if they don't, then PRO can correct me in the next round. The vampires have the power to create something along the lines of a 'flash bang', and disorientate the Elites through sound. By disturbing the fluid in a ear, an Elite will be out of the game. This allows a vampire to follow up with a heat or cold attack, which will kill the Elite.

5) Gas Attacks
To tell the truth, the name of this section made me laugh. But moving on, the British police are equiped with tear gas. Vampires can use this to their advantage, as they can deploy the tear gas agaisnt the Elites. Vampires have the abilities to force gases in and out of their lungs, to absorb gases, and can use force fields to transport the tear gas.
-->Vampires can let this tear gas out during their dying moment, wounding or perhaps killing any foe that engaged in close combat.
-->Vampires can emit this from the Elite's feet. (See Section #1)
-->Vampires can drop this onto the Sangheili (See Section #2)

==Defense==

PRO says that vampires will be killed by sunlight.
1) Vampires evolve over time, since they are simply an imagination. They change to what humans want them to be. But I don't really care about this one fact.
2) This won't hinder the vampires, as the will simply be able to hide until the daylight. As I've stated before, they can dig underground and lie there through the day and fight under the cover of darkness (Vampires can see better).

PRO asks me to remove the fact that gunshots, swords, and any injuries that are cause by weapons (that aren't wood) can't kill vampires but only cause pain.
1) I concede to this. It would result in the vampires completely winning. *XD*

PRO asks that 'Energy Absorption' be reduced to -->1. It does not heal or fuel the Vampire and -->2. It wears out eventually.
1) This, however, I do not agree to. I believe that both sides have this ability - the Elites can regenerate and the Vampires can regenerate. If PRO wants me to reduce the power of this, he must also reduce the power of the Elites similarly.

PRO asks for a source for the abilities I've posted.
1) I'm sorry for being so confusing - I posted my source in front of the list of abilities. You will find everything from Adoptive Muscle Memory to Force Fields at this website: http://extraordinary.wikia.com...
It has a lot of links to different sections of the website, so I posted the general 'home'.


==Rebuttals==
Hmm. I've just noticed that I've gone completely backwards with the ordering of this round. I usually go..
1) Rebuttals
2) Defense
3) Arguments
But, I suppose it does not matter. I digress once again...

PRO uses the Field Marshal Elite Class as his squad
1) I concede - it doesn't really matter.

PRO claims that the Field Marshalls can win just through intimidation.
1) Sure, a normal human would get scared, but would vampires really get scared? You have to keep in mind that vampires are an intelligent species and they have full knowledge of their capabilities. I've shown you through tactics that they cannot be harmed by the Sangheili, yet they can slaughter the Sangheili.
2) Vampires can intimidate Field Marshalls. Imagine your opponent going up in smoke, and then somehow appearing behind you? Or perhaps imagine a foe that moves so fast you can barely see him/her? Needless to say, the wide variety of vampire abilities will surprise and scare even the most battle-hardenned foes. The Sangheili have not ever seen anything this powerful.

PRO explains how the Sangheili will use 'shielding'.
1) The shield will eventually become useless and destroyed - it cannot last forever.
2) An elite cannot simply 'retreat'. My opponent doesn't realize that vampires can move quicker, have better vision, and have abilities that can wreak havok at a level that makes it useless to hide.

PRO also talks about the Active Camo.
1) PRO said in Round 1 that the Active Camo is only useful when an Elite is standing completely still or moving at a extremely slow rate.
-->The vampires have many different methods on making Elites move. Such as increasing wind, exerting kinetic energy from their hands, etc.
2) Vampires also have similar abilities.

PRO also mentions Regeneration.
1) As I've explained before, an elite will have a hard time at retreating, so this is useless.
Debate Round No. 3
OberHerr

Pro

Sorry if this seems a little rushed, but I have less than a half hour, so bear with me.


First I would like to wish my opponent luck, and hope that the next rounds will be fun and interesting.


(What I do not rebut, I simply did not have time)

Rebuttal

My opponents statements will be italicized, while mine will be normal.

1) Digging Underground
As I've stated in Round 1, vampires can combine different abilities to produce new, interesting abilities. Super stamina, super speed, and the fact that vampires do not require air allows them to dig to great lengths and for long times. Now, what use is the ability to dig quickly and far?
-->Negating the Elites' weapons. Needless to say, I doubt that an elite gun has the power to penetrate up to miles underground. Neither do they have the ability to aim at underground targets - you cannot find the vampires.

First, the Vampires couldn't go "miles underground", the pressure and heat would kill them very quikly. Second, not all of their weapons, but some do have the ability to penetrate underground(though how far cannot be said as there is no information on it)

-->Attacking the Enemy. Since the Elites can no longer find the vampires, the vampires now have the element of surprise. A vampire could choose to dig their way back up into an area behind the Sangheili, or perhaps even drag elites down underground with them. Popping out of the ground, then escaping right after the ambush, will cripple the Sangheili, yet at the same time, protect the vampires.

The assumption here is that the Elites will be unable to attack back, and that the Vampires will somehow be able to do all this without any retaliation. The fact is, the Elites would simply have to stab a Vampire through with his Energy Sword/Dagger, and even if the Elite dies in the process, he will still take a Vampire with him.

Also, something you seem to overlook is that this is London. There little open dirt in London, and all the Elites would have to do to avoid these attack from the ground, would be to simply go up on a building, or up a story.

2)Air Support
Vampires have the ability to manipulate wind/air, which allows them to fly. Furthermore, they have super stamina, can levitate objects into air, and manipulate the gravity of objects. But what does this all mean? Vampires can fly and move objects of great size with them. Since the battleground is London, there are plenty of large objects to drop from great heights, such as cars, buildings, etc.
-->Negating the Elites' Weapons. Not only are they thousands of feet into the air, they also have large objects protecting them. Without a doubt, the Sangheili will not be able to reach these vampires.

Once again, if they were thousands of feet up, I doubt they could see those tiny specks down there, let alone hit them accurately. Also, what makes you think the Sangheili wouldn't just shot the objects out of the sky, or cut them in two? And if that fails, then they merely have to dodge to the side. Also, the Elites Beam Rifle could much more accurately, and efficiently shoot the Vampires down, and if that didn't kill them, a barrage of Plasma will.

-->Demolishing the Elites. Although this has never actually been tested out, hypothetically speaking, an Elite will not be able to survive thousands of pounds being dropped on him/her from a great height.

True, but I foresee a problem: that requires the Elite to be hit. These Elites are Field Marshals, the best of the best among Elites. They have killed thousands upon thousands of enemies to reach that rank, and they have shown they are able to lead planet-taking forces. I think they would be able to figure out "dodge", and shortly after, "sniper".

3) General Protection
Vampires also have a few abilities that give them protection overall, no matter what they are doing.
-->Tactical Probability -- Vampires have the ability to predict the outcome of events tactically. This gives them key advantages in the area of intelligence. I haven't seen my opponent mention one thing about the intelligence level of the Field Marshals (Correct me If I'm wrong).

You are correct. As my statement above says, they are the best of the best. They have reached their rank b defeating thousands of enemies, showing they can lead massive forces. If fact, they are rarely, if ever, seen on the same planet the Covenant is attacking, simply because there is only on Field Marshall that is required. To say the least, they would most certainly be a match for the Vampires probability.

-->Mist -- Vampires also have the ability to transform into a 'mist' substance. Without a doubt, none of the Sangheili's weapons can kill a gas, as all of their weapons can only damage physical objects. What does this mean? The second a vampire realizes he/she is in danger (See Above), they can escape via mist.

It could melt it. The Plasma from their weapons could quite literally, annialte the Mist. Mist is water, and water can be destroyed by heat, or in this case Plasma. While it might not totally kill the Vampire, it should od more than tickle.

I will have to ask my opponent to look to the comments for my remaining rebuttal, as I literally have seconds left, and I hope he will accep my arguments I place there.
vmpire321

Con

Hmm. The voters can choose whether or not they want to consider PRO's arguments that he posted in the comments section.

==Defense==
I shall first start with defending my arguments.

My opponent claims that vampires won't be able to go miles underground.
1) Heat -- Vampires have an immunity towards heat.
2) Pressure --They can generate force fields that help lower pressure.
3) My opponent does not provide a distance for how far their guns penetrate into the earth. However, I don't see how it's possible for the guns to reach great depths or if the Elites can even aim - they have no idea where the vampires are.

My opponent also claims that the Elites will be able to retaliate and attack the underground vampires.
1) He completely ignores the element of surprise. The Elites have absolutely no idea where the attack is going to come from.
2) The Vampires also have the choice to surround enemies. So not only do the vampires have the element of surprise, but they can also surround the Elites.
3) Surprise attacks can quickly disorganize and confuse the Elites.

My opponent claims that the Elites would only have to go on top of a building or up a story.
1) Hypothetically speaking, vampires could also dig through cement.
2) Case 1: Only a few elites hide out in a building.
-->The Vampires can group up and take them out one by one.
3) Case 2: All of the elites hide out inside of a building.
--> The Vampires only have to destroy the foundation of that building and collapse it.
--> The Vampires can go to the police station, grab grenades, and destroy that building.
--> The Vampires can choose to levitate large objects can crash them into the building at a great force.

My opponent questions the vampire's accuracy thousands of feet up into the air and claims that Elites could shoot them down.
1) Vampires have heightened eyesight. Furthermore, some vampires have the ability of 'never being able to miss your target'.
2) There isn't much need for accuracy. Especially when your dropping several story buildings, perhaps even skyscrapers, onto an Elite.
3) Mass x Acceleration = Force. Dropping something from a great height means a very fast speed. Furthermore, we are talking buildings. The amount of force should be able to create a crater, and several bombards will demolish London.

My opponent claims that Elites are able to 'dodge'.
1) While they are concentrated on the sky, my underground vampires would be able to grab their ankles, pull them into the ground, trapping the Elite.
2) Once again, a barrage of building falling from the sky will likely kill the Elites. Coordinated dropping will make it so that the Elites have no where to run.
3) The dust that will be caused by the collisions will render any Elite from being able to spot the vampires.

My opponent claims that the Field Marshals have high intelligence and be a match for the Vampire's 'tactical probability' ability.
1) In this case, the vampires intelligence will better suit this sort of combat. From what I can tell, the Field Marshals only have the ability to lead large groups of people. More specifically several armies. The tactics required for this is different than actual combat on the front line.

My opponent claims that an Elite can 'harm' a vampire in mist form.
1) He concedes that vampires probably won't die in mist form.
2) How can one 'melt' water? The vampire is already in a liquid form. Enough heat turns a person into a liquid. The Elites are simply heating up the vampires even more. I don't see how this is going to do anything at all.
3) Let's back up for a second. An Elite is aiming his gun into some mist, thinking that it is a vampire. What if it isn't? A vampire can materialize behind the unsuspecting Elite. Another case in which the vampires will have the element of surprise.

--Comments--
These rebuttals will be for his arguments in the comments section. I shall be going from his oldest posts to his most recent posts.

My opponent claims that the Elites will be able to wait the Vampires shields out or weaken them.
1) During the time that the vampires are in a 'shield' mode, they can continuously attack the Sangheili with no fear of retaliation.
2) The vampires also have the choice to cycle through several defensive modes. As soon as the shields start getting weakened, they can easily switch to mist, dig underground, or perhaps fly away. Furthermore, vampires can travel up to the speed of sound - they'll be gone before the Sangheili have a chance.

My opponent claims that vampires won't be able to manipulate memories.
1) Sure, if all of the vampires are trying to change the memories of the Elites, it wouldn't work. But my opponent isn't realizing that the Elites simply cannot concentrate on every single tactic that the vampires are deploying. The Elites probably won't even realize someone is attempting to change their memories.

My opponent believes that vampires using the invisibility ability will be cut to shreds by the Sangheili.
1) Once again, the element of surprise. More than likely the vampires will come out successful in these circumstances.

PRO says that the elites are immune to sound attacks.
1) PRO says himself that the anatomy of an Elite is unknown.
2) The Active Camo would quickly be dispersed through the vampires using their abilities to force the Sangheili to move at great speeds.

PRO claims that the Sangheili can activate all of their plasma grenades at their death similar to the vampire's gas attacks.
1) The Sangheili cannot do the same thing as the vampires. Why?
-->1. Breathing out is quicker than going through all of your grenades and activating them. The vampires have a better chance of actually doing it.
-->2. The vampires have higher endurance.
Furthermore....
-->1. The gas can actually save the vampire from dying, by killing the Elites and giving him/her time to recover. The Plasma grenades simply ensure that the Sangheili will be finished off.
-->2. The Vampires won't be affected by the gas, so friendly fire is impossible. On the other hand, the plasma grenades could also harm/kill other Elites in the area.
-->3. Gas stays and has a long-term effect on the area, but grenades don't.

My opponent claims that the Elites don't need oxygen.
1) My opponent himself isn't sure about this.
2) A vampire would only have to push or force an Elite to move quickly and the Elite would die.
3) How do Elites carry out cellular respiration?

My opponent asks that shields be limited and regeneration normal.
1) Agreed.
2) I'd like to point out that vampires can alternate and take turns at putting up shields.

My opponent claims that a Elite would only have to drag a vampire out into daylight or camp out in daylight.
1) Digging underground completely negates this.
2) Vampire can lift large objects and shroud London in darkness.

My opponent claims that vampires will still be scared.
1) Vampires can do the same thing to Elites. A vampire could, theoretically speaking, rip off a Elite's head with their teeth.
2) He doesn't say anything about the fact that vampires are intelligent and aware of their position.

My opponent claims that the Elites won't be scared by vampires.
1) The Vampire's speed makes it so that the Elite's probably won't even have a chance to see their faces. When you have no idea what your opponent looks like, your imagination tends to run wild.
2) I'd like to point out that the vampires have abilities never seen by Elites before. Such as turning into mist.

I am out of room so I shall continue in the comments.
Seeing that my rebuttals now are against his arguments in the comments, I determined that posting them in the comments won't harm anything.
1) If you decide to ignore the comments, both my and his arguments will be ignored. No Loss.
2) If you decide to acknowledge those arguments, our arguments will not be ignored. No Loss.
Debate Round No. 4
OberHerr

Pro

I can only ask the voters to look in the comments, if they want the entire debate.

Rebuttal

My opponents arguments will be in italics.

My opponent claims that vampires won't be able to go miles underground.
1) Heat -- Vampires have an immunity towards heat.

I fail to see how fire can kill them, but they are immune to heat. That just makes no sense whatsoever.

2) Pressure --They can generate force fields that help lower pressure.

Note: LOWER , not get rid of. So, basically, they would still get killed by it eventually, so they couldn't possibly go that far underground.

Also, something has occurred to me that would make this going underground thousands of feet business somewhat useless: Rule number 1: Neither side can leave the city. And I think we can agreed London is not several thousand feet underground.

3) My opponent does not provide a distance for how far their guns penetrate into the earth. However, I don't see how it's possible for the guns to reach great depths or if the Elites can even aim - they have no idea where the vampires are.

Simple, they just shoot at a Vampire as he enters the ground. It might not work, but it sure is worth a try.

My opponent also claims that the Elites will be able to retaliate and attack the underground vampires.
1) He completely ignores the element of surprise. The Elites have absolutely no idea where the attack is going to come from.

I understand they could drag an Elite underground perhaps, but that does not mean the Elite could not decapitate the Vampire with his Energy Sword/Dagger, wither while underground or right when the Vampire breaks the surface, not to mention they could just unload their plasma weapons on them underground, or above. The fact is, if a Vampire drags an Elite underground, they could simply stick with a Plasma Grenade, which cannot be removed. To simplify it, they could take the Vampire down with them.

2) The Vampires also have the choice to surround enemies. So not only do the vampires have the element of surprise, but they can also surround the Elites.

And the Elites could still quite easily kill them using the tactics described above.

My opponent claims that the Elites would only have to go on top of a building or up a story.
1) Hypothetically speaking, vampires could also dig through cement.
2) Case 1: Only a few elites hide out in a building.
-->The Vampires can group up and take them out one by one.

And why in God's name would the Elites be alone? And who says the Elites would be killed by the Vampires. You seem to be VERY confident that the Elites would just cower and be killed by the Vampires.

3) Case 2: All of the elites hide out inside of a building.
--> The Vampires only have to destroy the foundation of that building and collapse it.

I doubt that would kill the Elites. Like I said, their shields have been known to take several rockets, and grenades repeatedly, and still stand. I doubt some cement walls falling on them are gonna do much.

--> The Vampires can go to the police station, grab grenades, and destroy that building.

Police station in London have grenades? I'm sorta doubting that. Anyways, do you know how many grenades it would take to destroy and building? A LOT. And that's assuming a station even has any.

--> The Vampires can choose to levitate large objects can crash them into the building at a great force.

Once again, their shields would hold up, and second, do you know how many buildings there are in London? Called, just move from building to building.

My opponent questions the vampire's accuracy thousands of feet up into the air and claims that Elites could shoot them down.
1) Vampires have heightened eyesight. Furthermore, some vampires have the ability of 'never being able to miss your target'.

Well, I'm sorry to say that these Vampires would be saddened to known that Elites rarely miss as well, especially since they are firing shots that move at the speed on light. And even if the Vampires can throw whatever it is they are throwing at the Elites, the Elites could just blow it up using Fuel Rods, and Sticky Grenades, or just slice it using Energy Swords/Daggers.

2) There isn't much need for accuracy. Especially when your dropping several story buildings, perhaps even skyscrapers, onto an Elite.

Ok, I think we can draw the line at what the Vampires can throw at cars. Skyscrapers? If that was the case, why don't the Vampires just collapse the whole city on the Elites?

3) Mass x Acceleration = Force. Dropping something from a great height means a very fast speed. Furthermore, we are talking buildings. The amount of force should be able to create a crater, and several bombards will demolish London.

But, you see, in order for that to work, Vampires would have to launch those buildings from several thousand feet, which would have them leaving the city, breaking rule number 1. I really don't see the point in continuing this debate, if the Vampires are going to be essentially omnipotent. My opponent has failed to say what the limits of his Vampires power are, and I would like him to do so.

My opponent claims that an Elite can 'harm' a vampire in mist form.
1) He concedes that vampires probably won't die in mist form.

I still think they can die.

2) How can one 'melt' water? The vampire is already in a liquid form. Enough heat turns a person into a liquid. The Elites are simply heating up the vampires even more. I don't see how this is going to do anything at all.

Because heat kills Vampires. Therefore, heating up water, would kill the Vampire, turn it to steam.

3) Let's back up for a second. An Elite is aiming his gun into some mist, thinking that it is a vampire. What if it isn't? A vampire can materialize behind the unsuspecting Elite. Another case in which the vampires will have the element of surprise.

Wait, what? So what if its not a Vampire? I could say the Elites could do the same thing using Active Camo.

My opponent claims that the Elites will be able to wait the Vampires shields out or weaken them.
1) During the time that the vampires are in a 'shield' mode, they can continuously attack the Sangheili with no fear of retaliation.

As will, the Elites with their shields. The difference is that Elites weaponry, has the ability to "sap" shields, making them drain much faster than say, hitting them.

2) The vampires also have the choice to cycle through several defensive modes. As soon as the shields start getting weakened, they can easily switch to mist, dig underground, or perhaps fly away. Furthermore, vampires can travel up to the speed of sound - they'll be gone before the Sangheili have a chance.

Sadly, Elites weaponry moves at the speed of light, and last time I checked Speed of Light > Speed of Sound.

My opponent believes that vampires using the invisibility ability will be cut to shreds by the Sangheili.
1) Once again, the element of surprise. More than likely the vampires will come out successful in these circumstances.

You seem to assume that the Vampires will get the element of surprise quite a bit, but never back it up. Whose to say the Elites won't?

PRO says that the elites are immune to sound attacks.
1) PRO says himself that the anatomy of an Elite is unknown.

What I do know is that the Active Camo would effectively block out the sound.

2) The Active Camo would quickly be dispersed through the vampires using their abilities to force the Sangheili to move at great speeds.

That only makes the actual "invisibility" go away, not the sound proof effect.

I am running VERY low on space, so I must ask my readers, and opponent to move to the comments for the remainder of my argument.

I would also like to thank my opponent for this fun and interesting debate, and I would challenge him to a part 2, if he accepts, since I think we still have not quite finished. If he does accept part 2 DO NOT VOTE. That is all.
vmpire321

Con

vmpire321 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
147 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by THEVIRUS 3 years ago
THEVIRUS
Elites would miss at long range, but up close they are expert swordmen.
Posted by vmpire321 4 years ago
vmpire321
...lol
Posted by Multi_Pyrocytophage 4 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
bump
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
*whispers* He knows to much! *pulls out shotgun*
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
*sshhh*
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
So basically never, right?
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
Maybe later....when we feel like it. :P
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
xD...We never got to it.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Where's part two?
Posted by flam21 5 years ago
flam21
I'll only vote if someone makes it not be a tie.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
OberHerrvmpire321Tied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: request for a tie