The Instigator
NickMasstas
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
Hound
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Santa Claus=God

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
NickMasstas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,605 times Debate No: 14076
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (3)

 

NickMasstas

Pro

Hello and welcome!

Pro's objective: State that any relation between God and Santa Claus are coincidence.

This debate may seem obvious but "what-the-heck" its Christmas. Well let us begin!
We all know who Santa Claus is right? An overweight, jolly man who gives toys to all the good children around the world. Pretty simple right? Well I listened to the "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" song and noticed something. I will now quote the song.
"He sees you when your sleeping"
"He knows when your awake"
"He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake"

Now if he can see you when your sleeping, know when your awake and know if you've been "bad or good" then this would mean that Santa is an "all knowing" being. Who else is an all knowing being? I assume this would be God.

I will save further arguments for the next round.
Hound

Con

(Season's) Greetings! I thank Pro for starting this jolly debate :).

Rebuttals and Contentions are all I'll state to finish Round 1.

As Con, I accept the burden of proof in which I must display, without a doubt, that Santa Claus has no relationship or similarity with God.

To assist with my rebuttal, I'd like to post a definition of my own.

God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
Source: http://www.dictionary.com...

As you can see, God is described and believed to be the creator of the universe and its sentient beings. Santa Claus is not.

I look forward to a holiday cheer-filled debate ;D.
Debate Round No. 1
NickMasstas

Pro

I give thanks to Con for accepting this debate. Let us start!

Santa Claus doesn't necessarily have to represent God as adults know Him, but rather "God-for-Children". A "less intimidating" way of setting children straight. To wait an entire lifetime to go to heaven would be a really long time for a 5-year-old to be "good". So in this case it's shredded down to 1 year in waiting time.

Lets look at the similarities here:

1. God has songs written in his praise called hymns, Santa has songs written in his praise called carols. The comparison here is both God and Santa have songs that praise them.

2. God demands tithing, by way of the church, Santa demands that you set out milk and cookies, by way of tradition. The comparison here is God and Santa Claus both demand something in return.

3. God has angels to do his will, Santa has elves to do his bidding. The comparison here is simply God and Santa both have workers to do their will. Elves make toys for the good little boys and girls who deserve them. Angels bring answers to prayers to people who deserve them.

4. God punishes by an eternity in hell, Santa punishes by a lump of coal in your stocking. The comparison here is simply not getting what you want because you've been "bad". You don't want to go to hell and you don't want to get a lump of coal that would ruin any child's Christmas.
Hound

Con

Thank you, Pro! It's a pleasure to debate with you!

.:;Rebuttals;:.
Pro states that Santa only resembles God when viewed through a child's eyes. However, in the opening round Pro stated forthwith that Santa Claus has similarities with God; no other specifications. In addition, an adult may not view God has being existent. What I mean is, Adults as you say may not "know God" as well as one child does. It's simply based on belief.

1. Actually, carols are songs of Christmas, and joy as well:
carol - a Christmas song or hymn; a song of joy
Source: http://www.dictionary.com.... Some carols do not necessarily even include Santa; Jesus is actually a frequent allusion target, moreso than Santa.

2. By "in return," I assume you mean for service. Santa Claus is given cookies by those whom wish to do so. Nowhere in tradition does it assert you must give milk and cookies in exchange for Santa's "services." The same could be said of God, but let's not turn this into a whole "Does God exist" tirade.

3. So, because Santa has workers, he's similar to God? I suppose Bill Gates is God (oh please nooooo)? I see what you mean, God and Santa have "workers." However, elves don't do "bidding." They make toys, as you said. Santa gets no personal gain from it.

4. Right, Santa does give the bad children coal. This cannot be used as an analogy for God's system of Hell. Coal is something you get for being bad. As a child, the most bad thing possible for one to do would be something along the lines of temper tantrums or sassy attitdes. Hell is where sinners go. Evil people. Just because Santa attempts to castigate children with coal does not put him on the plane of God's sending sinners to Hell.
Debate Round No. 2
NickMasstas

Pro

"Pro states that Santa only resembles God when viewed through a child's eyes. However, in the opening round Pro stated forthwith that Santa Claus has similarities with God; no other specifications."

This is false, I never said that Santa "only" resembles God through a child's eyes. Santa may resemble a wide variety of things in a child's eyes, since everyone thinks differently. What I stated in the first round was a comparison to a song and a figure. I never stated that Santa "has" similarities with God, I'm claiming that Santa Claus "does" resemble God.

"In addition, an adult may not view God has being existent. What I mean is, Adults as you say may not "know God" as well as one child does. It's simply based on belief."

It doesn't matter what religion you are, a vast majority of people in the world knows who God is one way or another. It wouldn't really make a difference if you believed or not because there are Atheists who celebrate Christmas too.

1. Sure, there a lots of carols that don't involve Santa, but the same could be said for Jesus as well.

2. The reason children set out milk and cookies is because they want a sign if Santa is real or not. Just like people pray for a good future, they want to a sign to see if he's listening (in retrospect: if he's real). Your right, lets not do that.

3. So, because God has workers, he's similar to Bill Gates? No, if that were the case then God could be compared to a lot individuals. You can't compare God to any normal individual because no "normal" individual can do what God does (like create a whole universe). That being said, Santa is obviously not a normal individual because he's magical. He has flying reindeer, lives in an uninhabitable region of the world, and knows every known child on the planet. Do you know of anyone who has and does all those things?

4. "Coal is something you get for being bad." Right, and Hell is a place you go for being bad as well. You must take both sides into consideration though. A life with Santa is a more simplified way of being good then it would than being in a life with God (which has many more temptations). So when comparing the two, throwing tantrums and sassy attitudes is an equivalent to adultery or speaking blasphemy. Also, children don't fully understand the many temptations and sins that await them when they find out that Santa doesn't exist. That he is merely a mask that was put in front of the face that is God's. This is when they find out who the "gift giver" really is. Parents do this so their children don't worry about as many things as older people do, they want them to be carefree before they come to an age where they need to be brought to reality. When they are old enough to understand the difference between right or wrong, adults see this as a time to bring them to a more a realistic truth (God).

With that being said, Santa is a simplified, child's figure for God.
Hound

Con

Thank you, Pro =).

-Rebuttals
"This is false, I never said that Santa "only" resembles God through a child's eyes."
My mistake, I must have misread.

"Santa may resemble a wide variety of things in a child's eyes, since everyone thinks differently. What I stated in the first round was a comparison to a song and a figure."

By "song" and "figure," do you mean the hymns and carols you spoke of in Round 2? If so, you stated that God and Santa resemble each other because they both have songs in praise for them. I've heard songs in praise of numerous people, does that mean they're God?

"I never stated that Santa "has" similarities with God, I'm claiming that Santa Claus "does" resemble God."

Resemble - to be like or similar to
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com...

If Santa Claus resembles God, he has similarities akin to him.

"It doesn't matter what religion you are, a vast majority of people in the world knows who God is one way or another. It wouldn't really make a difference if you believed or not because there are Atheists who celebrate Christmas too."

But not for religious reasons. Atheists would celebrate Christmas solely for merriment and such. The point is is that they don't celebrate it for religious purposes.

1. Sure, there a lots of carols that don't involve Santa, but the same could be said for Jesus as well.
Right. The point is that you said Santa has a resemblance with God because he has songs written about him. I've already shown that just because songs speak of him in praise, it does not prove he resembles God.

2. Yes, but not all children do this. Santa does not "demand" it as you said he did.

3. Point 3 basically recapitulates what this whole debate is about, so I think it's best to leave it at that. The point of this was that just because Santa has workers, he is not equivalent to God.

4. It's hardly the same. A punishment because you did something a bit bad and an eternity of cipher because of evil sins is hardly comparable. Santa is not similar to God because he dishes out coal to castigate. Parents would be comparable to God with this logic, as would police officers.

In conclusion, Santa does not hold similarities with God simply because whatever resemblances may appear similar, they're too vague and comparable with other factors to hold water.
Debate Round No. 3
NickMasstas

Pro

Thank you Con for participating in this debate and for the final arguments of this round. I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! :D

"By "song" and "figure," do you mean the hymns and carols you spoke of in Round 2? If so, you stated that God and Santa resemble each other because they both have songs in praise for them. I've heard songs in praise of numerous people, does that mean they're God?"

Yes Santa is a public figure. No it does not mean they are, I say this because we are not debating anybody else except Santa and God. Bringing anyone else into the arguments to justify one side is irrelevant, because they are not creators of the known universe or a gift giver to all the known children around the world.

public figure: a well-known or notable person;
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com...

Sorry for the misconception, "I'm claiming that Santa is a simpler form of God".

"But not for religious reasons. Atheists would celebrate Christmas solely for merriment and such. The point is is that they don't celebrate it for religious purposes."

Right, but you don't need to be religious to celebrate Christmas in any situation. That's what I was trying to get at in the first place.

1. Then you agree that the comparison here is correct then. I never claimed that piece of "evidence" was proof alone.

2. Perhaps "demand" is too strong of a word. The point is that the comparisons between setting out cookies and tithing are similar to each other. The fact that not all children set out cookies and milk or not is irrelevant to the debate.

3. Yes, but God can do things that no other being can do...except Santa. Points 3 and 4 justify this.

Justify: to show (an act, claim, statement, etc.) to be just or right
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com...

4. Con seems to neglect the whole bit on taking both sides into consideration. I wasn't speaking as if it was fact, I was comparing morals through a child's point of view and an adults point of view. Santa is similar to God because he punishes, God doesn't always punish by Hell either. Maybe God will take away your mother or your house, aka: giving you something you don't want (homelessness, foster child or being motherless), which is the opposite of what you want. You don't get what you want by getting coal. The comparison here is correct.

Hence, Santa is (once again) a simplified form of God.
Hound

Con

Thank you very much for a very thought-provoking debate, Pro! I shall make my final arguments and allow this to be plunged into the voting period. Happy holidays :).

"Yes Santa is a public figure. No it does not mean they are, I say this because we are not debating anybody else except Santa and God. Bringing anyone else into the arguments to justify one side is irrelevant, because they are not creators of the known universe or a gift giver to all the known children around the world."

Actually, it's quite relevant. If I make a song in praise of Michael Jackson, he would have one of the similarities you used Santa for, making him an effective substitute. Therefore, your statement that "Santa has carols, God has hymns" holds no water because this can be applied to anyone. There needs to be something distinctive about Santa that allows him to resemble God.

1. Of course the comparison is correct; it's such a vague one that can be applied to a multitudinous amount of people that it can't possibly hold any water.

2. Regardless, you claimed that God demands tithing from the church. That means it's required, according to you. Santa does not require anything, nor does he ask for anything in return. All we have is a tradition that some families do to fuel the idea of Santa.

3. So you agree on the workers thing; great. Secondly, Santa cannot do things that God can. Can Santa be ubiquitous? No, he must travel.

4. Alright. Again, this is a vague similarity. A police officer could bear this resemblance to God since he/she punishes. This has little to do with morals. Your original comparison was Hell and coal. The mother analogy is irrelevant. Hell is eternal suffrage of the soul for major sins. A lump of coal is a once-a-year thing that can be rectified by being a good little kid the next year. The coal serves as a reminder to be nice.

In conclusion, Santa Claus bears no resemblance to God because the similarities my opponent described were much too vague to be an adequate comparison. There is nothing distinctive that was posted here. Santa Claus bears no similarities with God.

Thank you and happy holidays everybody =).
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Hound 6 years ago
Hound
My bad, got this and another debate mixed up.
Posted by NickMasstas 6 years ago
NickMasstas
@Hound
"Funny, still lost when a lot of people said Santa Claus and God are not similar."

Who do you mean by "a lot of people"? If your referring to the comments then theres only one comment that's in your favor
Posted by Hound 6 years ago
Hound
Funny, still lost when a lot of people said Santa Claus and God are not similar.
Posted by Grape 6 years ago
Grape
Santa Claus - owned by Coca Cola

God - not owned by Coca Cola... yet
Posted by darkkermit 6 years ago
darkkermit
CON agrees with all of PROs statemen and fails to create his own arguments. Voted pro.

Santa Claus and god also have the similar mystical creatures made up. Once you start to think about how implausible each one is, you start to realize that both don't exist.
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
LOLZ. I very much enjoyed this and I had to give it to Pro bc he made some great parallels.
Posted by NickMasstas 6 years ago
NickMasstas
well i was referring to a song created by Christians.
Posted by Hound 6 years ago
Hound
I meant in the opening post :S.
Posted by annhasle 6 years ago
annhasle
@ Hound

What other God besides the Christian one has it's believers go to church, hymns sung at the church, angels to do His bidding and then the eternal damnation of Hell?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Christian God.
Posted by Hound 6 years ago
Hound
A Christian God was never specified.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Sitruk39 6 years ago
Sitruk39
NickMasstasHoundTied
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Vote Placed by darkkermit 6 years ago
darkkermit
NickMasstasHoundTied
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Vote Placed by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
NickMasstasHoundTied
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