The Instigator
JeremyPearl
Con (against)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
Nails
Pro (for)
Winning
43 Points

Santa Clause exists.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
Nails
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,065 times Debate No: 10360
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (9)

 

JeremyPearl

Con

I always thought that this would be fun to argue on.

I would define "Santa Clause" as the [fictional] man who has the power to deliver presents to everyone that believes in him and "existing" as having a tangible body. So fully explain what I am saying, show that the single person known as Santa Clause exists and that he has the capacity to deliver presents to the millions of people around the world that celebrate Christmas.

It is not physically possible for Santa to deliver presents to every child that believes in him--The relatively low estimate of 500.000.000 million people that celebrate Christmas each receiving 1 gift would mean that Santa would have to stop at, climb down the chimney of, and place presents under the tree of a house every 0.0001728 seconds. Prove that this can be done.
Nails

Pro

=======================
Contention: Bill Gates is Santa Claus
=======================

I will accept Con's definition of Santa Claus that he is: "the man who has the power to deliver presents to everyone that believes in him and 'existing' as having a tangible body."

Con notes that 500,000,000 people celebrate Christmas.
The cost to deliver a standard 10-lb package internationally is $78.50. [1]
$78.50 * 500,000,000 = $39,250,000,000
Bill Gates's net worth is $40,000,000,000. [2]
The world's 2nd richest man, Warren Buffet, has a net worth of $37,000,000,000. [2]
Bill Gates is the only person "who has the power to deliver presents to everyone that believes in him."
Thus, Bill Gates must be Santa Claus.

Bill Gates clearly has a tangible body: http://www.microsoft.com...
Thus, Santa Claus clearly exists.

[1] http://ircalc.usps.gov...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
JeremyPearl

Con

Pro stated that Bill Gates has the capacity to send presents to every person that believes in him. Sure.

However, the debate topic is "Santa Clause Exists", not "There is a possibility that Santa Clause exists." If Bill Gates were to have sent every present to every boy and girl that believes in him, by Pro's calculations his current net worth (if he had only delivered presents once) would be

40,000,000,000-39,250,000,000=750,000,000

Proven by the fact that Pro showed a source linking to Bill Gates net worth being $40,000,000,000; Bill Gates obviously hasn't spent the money to bring presents to every child that believes in him.

My opponent also stated that to ship a 10 lb package internationally would cost 78.50. From Fed-Ex the cost to ship a 10 lb package from CA to Vietnam is 168.25
http://www.fedex.com...

Please show me that Santa exists, not that it is possible that he exists.
Nails

Pro

This debate has absolutely nothing to do with whether Bill Gates delivers presents, only whether he can.

Con defined Santa Claus as:
"the man WHO HAS THE POWER TO deliver presents to everyone that believes in him and 'existing' as having a tangible body."

Thus, as long as Bill Gates has the power to deliver presents, he is Santa Claus.

Con concedes: "Bill Gates has the capacity to send presents to every person that believes in him. Sure."

Therefore, Con has effectively forfeited this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
JeremyPearl

Con

All right. I made a mistake in my definition of Santa Clause, and Pro caught me. And maybe next time I will go over my definitions more carefully. Good job, and I hope that you enjoyed this debate.

But no, this isn't a forfeit.

My opponent used the argument that 78.50*500,000,000=39,250,000,000
I checked his source and that is completely accurate. However, while PRO paid for the shipping of the presents, he didn't account for either paying for or paying to manufacture every single present. So if (using Pro's calculations) the total cost of shipping is 39,250,000,000 and bill gates worth is 40,000,000,000 then Santa would spend less than $1.50 on each present.

My neighbors daughter believes in Santa. She got a $300 bike from him. Therefore if Bill Gates gave each child a gift of that price, he could not afford to be Santa. And we can all obviously conclude that Bill Gates is not Santa.

Con Wins.

(By the way your Wikipedia link brings you to a page entitled Lis)
Nails

Pro

Well, my opponent has dropped all of his previous arguments and made a completely new one in the last rebuttal.
However, he again has answered his own rebuttal for me...

"Santa would spend less than $1.50 on each present."

Here's '15 Gift Ideas for One Dollar': http://www.associatedcontent.com...
As Pro says, Bill could send these to everyone and still have millions to spare.

Thus Bill Gates is Santa Claus.

His tangible body has been well-documented: http://www.microsoft.com...

Therefore, Santa Claus exists, and the resolution is affirmed. Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
@ KRFournier,
How do you prove 'Santa Claus exists' without semantics?

Also, as for the sources:
The Wikipedia article cites a reliable Forbes article. I posted Wikipedia because it is better layed out and easier to read/compare.

Thanks for the RFD.
Posted by KRFournier 7 years ago
KRFournier
Conduct - Con - Pro used semantics to win.

Spelling/Grammar - Tie.

Argument - Pro - Pro presented the better argument. While I think there were ways to defeat it, Con did not use them.

Sources - Con - Pro's sources were not completely reliable. He cited an unrelated wikipedia page and the USPS shipping rates were to one location, which does not completely support his argument that Bill Gates can afford ship to every place in the world.
Posted by JeremyPearl 7 years ago
JeremyPearl
I love it. This was a fun debate. And your comment before this is correct. But nothing I say in the comments applies to the debate, which I don't see how you can win.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
In response to Jeremy in response to me, you are incorrect that I am incorrect.

Your definition of Santa does not say that he has delivered presents, just that he can, thus Santa Claus exists if someone (namely, Bill Gates) can deliver said presents.
Posted by JeremyPearl 7 years ago
JeremyPearl
In response to Nails, you are incorrect.

To win the debate, you have to show that is has been done--The topic is "Santa Clause Exists"
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
"I never knew that bill gates was a fictional character named santa clause"
Con bracketed [fictional.] It's not a necessary part of the definition.
If so, I will simply write a short fiction about Bill Gates's comical misadventures. He will then be fictional.

"i didn't realize he would be able to deliver presents to 500 million people in one night, even *using* a postal service."
Con never once mentioned that it must be done in a single night. Gates could send these packages over a month, year, or decade.

Further, I don't have to show that he does this or will do it, just that:
"[he] has the power to"
"he has the capacity to"
"It is physically possible to"
"this can be done"
Posted by Alex 7 years ago
Alex
*in one night
Posted by Alex 7 years ago
Alex
I never knew that bill gates was a fictional character named santa clause, even ignoring that detail, i didn't realize he would be able to deliver presents to 500 million people, even *using* a postal service.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
If you wanted to play on harsh semantics, you could have argued for the existence of this: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Or, you could have argued for one of the many towns in the United States named after St. Nick.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
I have an idea...
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Vote Placed by Mixer 7 years ago
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