The Instigator
Dishoungh
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Defro
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Sasuke will be the Hokage?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Defro
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/18/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,890 times Debate No: 49368
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

Dishoungh

Con

It's just a stupid belief that Sasuke will become the Hokage. That's like saying Justin Bieber will become the president of the United States if he wanted to. That will never happen. Here's some reasons why:

Reason #1: Hokages are chosen.
Every fan should know that by now. Hokages are chosen by the people like a democracy. Not when they pop out of no where and say, "Hey, I'm back. I'm good again." You can't just say you want to be Hokage. You have to earn it. Sasuke doesn't deserve this title. Another thing, the villagers have to trust the Hokage. Nobody will trust Sasuke if he comes back. To become Hokage, the villagers must accept you and look up to you as a leader. Naruto has done this already by defending the village (Well, what was left of it) from Pain. Everyone has accepted him as their defender and are willing to look up to him. Sasuke is nothing, but a criminal to the villagers. They'll probably won't even allow him into the village.

Reason #2: Hokages cares for his/her villagers.
Sasuke shows little or no care for other people at all. The only reason why he wanted to be the Hokage in the first place was because of his brother. That's the only person Sasuke cares about. Not the villagers, not his other friends. He's Itachi's little puppet. Whatever he thinks and does, Sasuke will do the same thing.

Reason #3: Sasuke is a criminal.
This is a really big factor and reason why Sasuke will never become Hokage. Yeah, he's good now. But, does that mean that will people not remember what Sasuke has done? People will still remember that attack at the Kage summit. When Sasuke even tries to nominate for the title, he will be nothing but a laughing stock. It's the same in real life. If you try to get a job in the police force, CIA, FBI, etc., they will look at your criminal records from you AND YOUR FAMILY. Sasuke can't just decide to be Hokage and say, "Hey, I'm good again. So, forget about that time where I attacked the Kage Summit. Forget that time where I wanted to destroy the Leaf village. It's all good."
Defro

Pro

I accept. Before I begin to present my case, I will clarify as to what both Con and I are arguing for.

________________________________________________________________________________


"It's just a stupid belief that Sasuke will become the Hokage."


-Con is arguing that Sasuke essentially has no chance of becoming Hokage.

-I will be arguing that Sasuke certainly has almost as much chance of becoming Hokage as Naruto.

_______________________________________________________________________


Reason 1 Rebuttal:



"Hokages are chosen by the people like a democracy"

-Con is clearly misinformed. Hokages are not chosen by the people like a democracy. Hokages are selected by the current Hokage upon their retirement. If the previous Hokage is dead or is unable to choose someone to be the next Hokage, the Fire Daimyo selects the candidate for the position of Hokage. [1]


"You can't just say you want to be Hokage. You have to earn it. Sasuke doesn't deserve this title."

-I'd say so far Sasuke is doing a beautiful job of earning it so far in the story and if he continues, he will have certainly earned it. For example, he's gotten rid of Orochimaru, who was a threat to the village. He's also made it aided in the revival of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Hokages to help in the war! Furthermore, he's discovered the truth of the village's past from them and even sort of befriended all the previous Hokages!




And now he is joining arms with the world against the evil known as Madara. And he seems to be one of the few people in the war that is actually making a difference. So far, it appears that without him, the war would have been lost, because he's actually contributing alot to the war.


"Another thing, the villagers have to trust the Hokage. Nobody will trust Sasuke if he comes back. To become Hokage, the villagers must accept you and look up to you as a leader. Naruto has done this already by defending the village (Well, what was left of it) from Pain."

-If Sasuke comes back, Naruto and Sakura would trust him. A lot of their friends would trust him too, so basically all the main characters. Sasuke is currently battling Madara with Naruto, isn't that a deed that would build up trust for him within the community. Oh, and one more thing, THE FIRST HOKAGE TRUSTS HIM.





Reason 2 Rebuttal:

"Sasuke shows little or no care for other people at all. The only reason why he wanted to be the Hokage in the first place was because of his brother."

-This is clearly wrong. His brother is his inspiration. And because his brother cared for his village so much, it inspired Sasuke to care for his village just as much in the end. He now realizes that there are things and people in this world in which he values and that he desires to protect them.




"He's Itachi's little puppet. Whatever he thinks and does, Sasuke will do the same thing."

-Con has contradicted himself. Con concedes that Itachi cares and protects his village. Therefore, if Sasuke will do the same, that means Sauske will also care and protect his village.


"Sasuke is a criminal"

-Is he really though? The biggest thing he did to defy the village was to run away from the village. On top of that, he hasn't really done anything to be deemed a criminal, which is why a few times after he left, Naruto and his friends would try to find and retrieve him not as a crminal, but as a lost citizen of the village. Furthermore, he hasn't really directly killed anyone. Orochimaru's death was seemingly due to Itachi. Itachi wanted Sasuke to kill him. Deidara killed himself (plus he was a criminal, so Sasuke should be honored for this deed). He didn't kill any of the Kages. Danzo also sort of killed himself, but he was also a bad guy. So basically the only people Sasuke killed were criminals, and he didn't even directly kill them.


"But, does that mean that will people not remember what Sasuke has done?"

-Con fails to realize what is going on in the story right now! There is a war going on that could determine the fate of the world, and Sasuke has sided with the good guys! And he has helped a great deal! You're right! If they win the war, people will never forget the fact that without Sasuke, they might have lost the war!
_____________________________________________________________________

Addendum:


1. Sasuke is strong enough to be Hokage.

-Sasuke's skill certainly makes him a Kage-leveled shinobi, therefore there is a chance he can be Hokage.


2. Sasuke needs to be Hokage in order to maintain balance

-The village itself was founded by both the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan, yet all of the Hokages are Senju. This is in a way discriminating against the Uchiha clan. This is because Madara was offered the position but declined. But now that there is actually an Uchiha who's strong enough to be Hokage and is willing to be Hokage, shouldn't he be allowed to have a chance to be Hokage?

_____________________________________________________________________


Sources:

1. http://naruto.wikia.com...
2. Manga Strips




Debate Round No. 1
Dishoungh

Con

Before I start my second argument, I want to apologize for my refusal to participate and the misleading statements yet again. DAMMIT! I don't know how to make my arguments look nice like Pro's.

Anyway, here I go.

"Hokages are not chosen by the people like a democracy. Hokages are selected by the current Hokage upon their retirement. If the previous Hokage is dead or is unable to choose someone to be the next Hokage, the Fire Daimyo selects the candidate for the position of Hokage.

Yeah, Hokages may not be chosen by the villagers themselves, but they are chosen by someone by vote. After the Fire Daimyo has chosen somebody, the Leaf Jonin have to approve that decision. Like I said it's similar to a Democracy. Jonins have acknowledged Naruto and they see that Naruto has more capabilities of being a greater Hokage than Sasuke. Also, what you're missing is Lady Tsunade isn't dead. She's still alive and if she survives the entire war, she can choose Naruto because she has a stronger relationship with Naruto than Sasuke. Tsunade has met Naruto way before Sasuke and she was able to relate to him better. Also, she has acknowledged him to become a better Hokage than Sasuke as well.

"I'd say so far Sasuke is doing a beautiful job of earning it so far in the story and if he continues, he will have certainly earned it. For example, he's gotten rid of Orochimaru, who was a threat to the village. He's also made it aided in the revival of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Hokages to help in the war! Furthermore, he's discovered the truth of the village's past from them and even sort of befriended all the previous Hokages!

And?
- Naruto, again, saved the village from Pain.
- He went out and helped more of the war by defeating the White Zetsu minions.
- He defeated Gaara in his One-Tail transformation
- Naruto has befriended all the previous AND current Hokages.
- Naruto fought Sora and assisted to defend the village from the Grave Robbers.
Those are 5 points right there. Naruto has contributed more to the Shinobi world than anyone else.

Okay, you won on my 3rd counterstatement.

"This is clearly wrong. His brother is his inspiration. And because his brother cared for his village so much, it inspired Sasuke to care for his village just as much in the end. He now realizes that there are things and people in this world in which he values and that he desires to protect them."

In the anime, he completely said he doesn't care what other people think. The only person he ever cares about is his brother. He doesn't really want to protect the people. The only reason why he made that decision was because of his brother like I said. Sasuke can easily change just like that. Naruto cared for others right from the very beginning regardless of what other people told him. Sasuke is like a piece of clay. He can be molded into a any shape.

I won't even debate back on the criminal part because I know that was a weak argument statement and I'm sorry for that. I should have known this counterstatement was going to be irrelevant.

Addendum:
1. Naruto is strong enough as well. A lot of my friends and people I asked even openly said that Naruto is a bit stronger than Sasuke. Go to my Poll called Naruto vs Sasuke I think. The majority of votes were Naruto.

2. Naruto is a Kage level shinobi too.

"The village itself was founded by both the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan, yet all of the Hokages are Senju. This is in a way discriminating against the Uchiha clan. This is because Madara was offered the position but declined. But now that there is actually an Uchiha who's strong enough to be Hokage and is willing to be Hokage, shouldn't he be allowed to have a chance to be Hokage?"

What does that have to do with anything? There weren't any Uzumaki members that became Hokage either.

The biggest point I'm trying to make is Naruto deserves more of the title than anyone else.
- He has done more good than Sasuke.
- Everyone pretty much knows who he is (This is probably going to be insignificant. But, still, everyone has acknowledged Naruto and that should say something.)
- Tobirama even said he has the potential of being a greater Hokage than Hashirama.

Now, if, all of a sudden, they can allow 2 Hokages, then that would be fine. But, I doubt that will happen. Still, Kishimoto can probably turn around and write some crazy stuff. You're saying that just because Sasuke helped in the war and he killed a couple of bad guys, he can just turn around become Hokage just like that. Naruto has helped the war too and killed some bad guys too. He killed Pain which is more powerful than Danzo and Orochimaru combined almost. Pretty much, everyone did help in the war. Not in the scale of what Naruto and Sasuke did, but they did general help though. So, you're saying that everyone has the potential of being Hokage just because they helped in the war?

PS: I'm still not even taking this debate seriously and I still don't care.
Defro

Pro




_____________________________________________________________________________

Counter-Rebuttal:



"Yeah, Hokages may not be chosen by the villagers themselves, but they are chosen by someone by vote. After the Fire Daimyo has chosen somebody, the Leaf Jonin have to approve that decision. Like I said it's similar to a Democracy."


-Con clearly does not know what democracy is. In a democracy, people govern themselves. [1] [2] That means everyone votes for the leader of the nation. However the Leaf Village does not run like that, and Con has conceded to this by saying that only the Jonin have the right to approve a leader. Jonin are the highest class of Ninja below the Hokage. [3] Therefore, in the Leaf Village, only the higher classed can determine the Hokage. This is more close to oligarchy than it is democracy. In oligarchy, only a small number of people have the right to determine the leader. [4] [5]


"Tsunade has met Naruto way before Sasuke and she was able to relate to him better. Also, she has acknowledged him to become a better Hokage than Sasuke as well."


-Con fails to realize that this debate deals with the chances of Sasuke becoming Hokage and confuses it with the chances of Sasuke becoming the 6th Hokage. While I agree, Naruto has a higher chance of becoming the next Hokage, there is a significant possibility that Naruto will choose Sasuke to be the 7th Hokage.

-Con is trying to twist and confuse this debate by bringing up the character Naruto. This debate holds no relevance with Naruto at all. Con is to argue that Sasuke does not have a high chance of becoming Hokage, and I am to argue that indeed Sasuke has a significant possibilty. The debate is not "Who has a higher chance of becoming Hokage, Naruto or Sasuke?" but "Does Sasuke have a good chance of becoming Hokage or not?"


"And?
- Naruto, again, saved the village from Pain.
- He went out and helped more of the war by defeating the White Zetsu minions.
- He defeated Gaara in his One-Tail transformation
- Naruto has befriended all the previous AND current Hokages.
- Naruto fought Sora and assisted to defend the village from the Grave Robbers.
Those are 5 points right there. Naruto has contributed more to the Shinobi world than anyone else."


-Again, Con is trying to twist the resolution of the debate by comparing Naruto to Sasuke. No where in Round 1 had I said "Sasuke has a higher chance of becoming Hokage than Naruto." All I am arguing is that Sasuke indeed has a chance of becoming Hokage. Furthermore, some of these points are slightly flawed.

-Sasuke helped Naruto fight Gaara in his One-Tail transformation.

-And while Naruto has befriended all the Hokages, Sasuke earned the trust of the First Hokage. In an image I posted and will repost in this round, it showed that the First Hokage entrusts and predicts Sasuke to defeat Madara. The First Hokage did not entrust the defeat of Madara with naruto, but with Sasuke. And if Sasuke defeats Madara, that would outweigh Naruto's defeating of Pain, because Madara is more villianous.





"
Okay, you won on my 3rd counterstatement."

-Con has conceded.


"In the anime, he completely said he doesn't care what other people think. The only person he ever cares about is his brother. He doesn't really want to protect the people. The only reason why he made that decision was because of his brother like I said. Sasuke can easily change just like that. Naruto cared for others right from the very beginning regardless of what other people told him. Sasuke is like a piece of clay. He can be molded into a any shape."


-First of all, I would like to point out that in this debate, both Pro and Con share an equal burden of proof. I have met with this burden of proof by providing several sources and images from the Manga. In an image that I have posted and will repost again, it shows that Sasuke does care to protect people. What evidence does Con have that supports his argument??

-And now, he wants to protect the village because he wants to continue his brother's resolve. I don't think this resolve is easy to change as Con suggests. And nevertheless of whether or not he wants to protect the village because of his brother, he is still protecting the village, which is all that matters.

-I will present another picture in which Sasuke appears to have caring feelings.





__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Addendum Rebuttal:


"Naruto is strong enough as well. A lot of my friends and people I asked even openly said that Naruto is a bit stronger than Sasuke. Go to my Poll called Naruto vs Sasuke I think. The majority of votes were Naruto."

-Currently, Naruto is stronger than Tsunade, and that doesn' change the fact that Tsunade is Hokage. Also, note that your "friends and people" and your poll is not a reliable source.

-Again, this is not a "Naruto vs Sasuke" debate. This debate only concerns with Sasuke and not Naruto.


"Naruto is a Kage level shinobi too."

-Ok good for him. Your point?


"What does that have to do with anything? There weren't any Uzumaki members that became Hokage either."

-The Uzumaki clan are not part of the original founders of the Leaf Village. The Senzu and the Uchiha were. [6] [7] The Uzumaki are distant blood relatives of the Senzu, but they did not directly found the village.

-If the village was founded by both the Senzu and the Uchiha, would you not agree that in order for the village to be balanced and fair, that leaders of the village would include both Senzu and Uchiha? Yet all of the Hokages so far are Senzu. Therefore, to balance out the roles of both clans, an Uchiha Hokage must be brought to.


"The biggest point I'm trying to make is Naruto deserves more of the title than anyone else."

-This point is invalid to the debate. The debate is not "Naruto should be Hokage", but "Will Sasuke be Hokage". Therefore the debate is over the possibility of Sasuke becoming Hokage, and not whether or not that possibility is higher than Naruto's.


"Now, if, all of a sudden, they can allow 2 Hokages, then that would be fine."

-They have allowed 2 Hokages before. This is the case with the 1st and 2nd Hokages. They were Hokage at the same time. [8]

____________________________________________________________________________


Addendum:

-This has been mentioned by Mikal in the comments section (Thanks). The writer of Naruto said himself that he has seriously considered from the start to make Sasuke Hokage. [9] [10] Due to the fact that the author said this, there is a huge possibility that Sasuke will become Hokage.

___________________________________________________________________________________


*Disclaimer
-Con has committed a propositional fallacy by affirming a disjunct. [11]
Just because Naruto becomes Hokage does not mean Sasuke cannot become Hokage. If Naruto is the 6th, then Sasuke can be the 7th.

-->Furthermore, Con's use of the comparison between Naruto and Sasuke is completely invalid towards the purpose of this debate.

___________________________________________________________________________


Sources:


1. http://www.whatisdemocracy.net...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://naruto.wikia.com...
4. http://en.wikipedia.org...
5. http://global.britannica.com...
6. http://naruto.wikia.com...
7. http://naruto.wikia.com...
8. http://naruto.wikia.com...
9. http://www.shonengamez.com...
10. Mikal's Comment
11. http://en.wikipedia.org...
12. Manga Strips




Debate Round No. 2
Dishoungh

Con

In general, will Sasuke become the Hokage? Maybe after Naruto. There you won? Are you happy now? Can you stop insulting me now? This topic was still pointless. I'm out of here. Nobody is going to care anyway.
Defro

Pro

Response:


"In general, will Sasuke become the Hokage? Maybe after Naruto."

-Con has conceded that Sasuke can maybe become Hokage.


"There you won?"

-Con has conceded that I won.


"Are you happy now?"

-I guess so. I'm quite a happy guy, so nevertheless I'd be happy anyway.


"Can you stop insulting me now?"

-Not once have I insulted you. That would be committing Ad Hominen, which is a logical fallacy.


"This topic was still pointless."

-I don't feel like this topic was pointless at all! I love discussing the future possibilities of a story!

-If Con feels like this topic was pointless, Con should not have instigated this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Defro 12 months ago
Defro
BOOM B*TCH I CALLED IT.

Naruto just finished and Sasuke DID become hokage.
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
@diz
Actually Naruto is not the second sage of six paths. The sage of six paths only gave Naruto half of his power. He gave Sasuke the other half.
Posted by diz 2 years ago
diz
Dishoungh

sasuke should be hokage and naruto is the second sage of six path so he belongs to the whole world
Posted by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
I'm still not taking it seriously. LOL
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
Ok then!
Posted by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
Fine then. We should debate on why Sasuke SHOULDN'T be Hokage. NEW CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
I agree, we are not debating whether or not Sasuke will be Hokage, because we are not fortune tellers.

However, it is completely valid to debate the possibility, which is what we are doing here.
Posted by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
But, still, there's no point of it anyway at all. We don't know what's going to happen. If you say that Sasuke will become Hokage, you don't know what's going to happen. Why do you think I went back in the first place? You were predicting. " If Naruto becomes the 6th Hokage, that doesn't necessarily mean Sasuke won't be the 7th or 8th Hokage." So, you're saying that's not predicting right there? Really? That is kind of predicting. Plus, even if there was some point of debating, nobody is going to care. I don't care and nobody cares.
Posted by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
@Dishoungh
It's really not empty words (and you will see why when I post my arguments). I'm not trying to predict at all! As a matter of fact, YOU WERE! How can we debate about this when it's happened? Let's say Sasuke does become Hokage. Do you really expect to have a debate on whether or not he becomes Hokage when he's already become Hokage?
Posted by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
@Defro
You can argue in this debate until the cows come. I don't care. All you're doing is saying empty words. Kishimoto can just turn the whole thing around and do something the complete opposite of what you just said. That's what I'm trying to get you to understand. What the writer decides to do will determine everything. Quit trying to predict and WAIT! Just wait until he makes his mind up THEN DEBATE! Hey, that rhymes xD. Don't just throw empty words at each other. That's just a pointless debate right there. We don't know what's going to happen in the future yet.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by The_Scapegoat_bleats 2 years ago
The_Scapegoat_bleats
DishounghDefroTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Was tied until the final round, when Con accused Pro of insulting him, which he clearly didn't. Points go to Pro. Arguments: Pro has effectively countered every point by Con, pointing out that Sasuke can be Hokage AFTER or even PARALLEL TO Naruto. Sources: Pro very effectively used bits of the source material to aid his perspective. I think this was a great topic that deserved more attention.