The Instigator
Shrek_sDrecKid
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BobbyPandaram
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points

Satan Is An Evil Entity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
BobbyPandaram
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,198 times Debate No: 68917
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (2)

 

Shrek_sDrecKid

Con

I am arguing that Satan is a good guy and not a bad guy as Christians, Muslims, and Jews claim him to be. The first round is for acceptance, the second for arguments, and the third round is finally for rebuttals. Any person belonging to those three religions should be warned to not join this debate unless they are religion neutral with such topics. If this is too offensive for you, then please leave now! If you are religion neutral, not heated by such debates, and have the skill level, then come debate...
BobbyPandaram

Pro

I accept the challenge in which I will be arguing that Satan is an evil entity. I am arguing that Satan is evil from the basis of the Bible account as I find no other source that can be used as a meaningful source for reference.

I am a Christian and I will be arguing from that pre-supposition. However, my position, will not result in me not engaging in a meaningful debate.

My opponent in challenging me is conceding some of the restrictions originally placed on the debate and also the restrictions as mentioned in his/ her acceptance statement.

I have also requested an addition of another round so that the format could follow:

Round 1 = acceptance
Round 2 = opening statements
Round 3 = rebuttals
round 4 = closing statements

Whilst my acceptance is not dependant on this request, I believe that it would allow for a more meaningful engagement.
Debate Round No. 1
Shrek_sDrecKid

Con

Satan is not bad as people make it seem that he is. According to the well-known myth of Satan [1], he was once one of the best angels in heaven with God. In fact, he was second to none in terms of obedience, authority, and power to God. There are many interpretations on how Satan became evil, but the universally accepted myth is that Satan became jealous of Adam and wanted to be more powerful than God. Refusing to obey God and seeing Adam as an equal, God sent him and other angels that followed him straight from heaven to hell, where he became the devil and would spend all of eternity to deceive mankind into sinning so that they will not enter into heaven.

However, I would like to point out that while he may be evil, he is not truly evil. As he is not truly evil, he is technically not an evil deity or entity, and therefore prevents Satan from being the devil. Just like how a person is corrupted is not considered to be evil, this innocent being is also not evil just because others assume he is. To first know what true evil is, we must find out the definition of evil, which is pasted below [2]:

e"vil (ēvəl/adjective)
profoundly immoral and malevolent.

Note how the definition is profoundly immoral, and not simply immoral, so that means in order for someone or an entity to be truly evil, they must be immoral to the absolute extreme. That is not what Satan is. As all can agree on, Satan started out as an angel of God [1] - he started out as innocent and as a pure and good being. But then, he became jealous with envy and developed hatred towards God and arrogance towards Adam. Then the rest is history. What I'm trying to state is that Satan is currently an evil being, but never started out as one. He also only became evil because of envy, arrogance, pride, and ignorance.

Yes, I just said that; his ignorance was his main tragic flaw besides his envy and pride. It was still extremely early in the Biblical timeline, and Satan - like the early humans and creatures - were ignorant and did not know any better. After misinterpreting God and Adam, he felt betrayed and began to became jealous. It wasn't entirely his fault as he didn't know any better as humans have never existed before. This is similar to siblings and parents - an older sibling discovers the parent loves the younger sibling more. He becomes jealous and hates the parent and the sibling. But is it really the sibling's fault or the parent's?

No, rather it is ignorance that was the cause of it all. Just like the sibling metaphor, Satan is simply angry and confused like a small child and does not understand nor accept why God "rejected" him and favored Adam over him. Honestly speaking, Satan is just jealous and is doing all of these acts to get attention and have God favor him over Adam more. He is innocent and not truly evil.

[1] http://www.apologeticspress.org...
[2] https://www.google.ca...
BobbyPandaram

Pro

I thank my opponent for this challenge and also for dropping the initial the restrictions so that I could be eligible to participate in this debate.
On the outset, I must say that this debate has been one of the most unusual debates that I have ever observed and even been part of. Let me explain why:
1.I am debating with an atheist on the moral standards of an entity that atheists lack belief in.
2.Secondly I am going to almost echo everything my opponent has said and show how that will affirm the thesis of this debate.
3.My opponent has already handed the debate to me.
So on point 1, I am glad that my opponent is not contesting whether an entity known as Satan exists or not. Therefore we can establish that Satan exists. The next non-issue for both my opponent and I is that we both are referring to Satan as revealed in the Bible.
On the second point, let"s look at the key points that my opponent raised.
1.Satan was originally good and was one of the most beautiful angels created by GOD " I agree with my opponent.
2.A universally accepted myth was that Satan became jealous of Adam and wanted to become more powerful than GOD " well I do disagree that Satan"s attempt to be like GOD if not greater was a myth but this very act was his downfall. Pride entered him and this resulted in him falling from grace and being banished from heaven. Hence the saying " pride comes before a fall. This pride led to Satan attempting a coup but his defeat was a no-brainer in that, he took on the omnipotence of GOD. If we follow the bible example carefully, we will see that this fall happened to prior to Adam being created.
3.Evil = profoundly immoral " I agree with this definition but where I disagree is that this does not imply an absolute extreme level of immoral. Profound, while it does signify an extremity, is most definitely not an absolute. However I do accept that Satan is absolutely evil.
4.My opponent argues that while Satan may be evil, he is not really evil. This confuses me in that we need to establish as to whether he is evil or not evil. If my opponent just went a little further and found the definitions for "profound" and "immoral" then my opponent would have no objection to note that corruption is an immoral act. The definition of "morals" is principles of right and wrong. I suggest to my opponent that being right or wrong is decided upon how we are aligned to GOD"s nature and instruction. The reason I offer this suggestion is that we have already established the Bible to be the source/ reference in which we can come to know anything about Satan. It is the Bible that accuses and demonstrates that Satan is evil in that he went against GOD. So therefore, establishing whether Satan is good or evil can only be established by the Bible. My opponent may object and make reference to the Jewish Scriptures. I will accept that too as the point of reference.
5.My opponent"s key focus is that Satan"s downfall was that he was jealous of Adam. I do not think that this is true since Satan"s downfall happened prior to the creation of Adam. Therefore by already being an adversary of GOD, he deceived Adam and Eve.
6.Finally the one admittance from my opponent that Satan is currently evil is exactly what were are debating. Notice the topic "Satan is an evil entity" is stated in the present tense and my opponent concurs with this. Therefore that concludes the debate in my favor.
I once again thank my opponent for this unusual debate in which my opponent won the debate for me.
Debate Round No. 2
Shrek_sDrecKid

Con

Shrek_sDrecKid forfeited this round.
BobbyPandaram

Pro

Again my gratitude goes out to my opponent for initiating this debate. However, I must express my disappointment in that my opponent has not responded chosen to not respond to as per the rounds stipulated by him/ her.

My disappointment is based on the fact that this debate touches on a key aspect of my faith and that of many others. Engaging and challenging each others worldview is healthy if it can be done on the basis of tolerance and a genuine need to test the truth of that worldview.

The real issue is not whether Satan is good or evil but whether we can safely know what is good or what is evil and what the sources thereof are. Now when we look at it carefully - the moment we say that Satan is good, the implications are that there is no evil. If there is no evil, then anything and everything goes. Pride becomes good. Rebellion becomes good, adultery becomes good, theft becomes good, murder becomes good, abortion becomes good (sounds like we're here already) and sexual orientation that goes against natural design becomes good. Everything breaks down and nothing will ever mean anything anymore. This is why I consider this topic important.

I expected this debate to do the latter in that we test the credibility and validity of a worldview. It was on this basis I actually requested that we increase the rounds so that we could do justice to the topic at hand. To me it was not about winning or losing - it was about learning and going where the truth leads.

without labouring too much on my disappointment, let's see what we can salvage from this experience.

1. Satan (adversary) as per the very sources that makes him known to us, is evil in that he is an adversary to GOD who is the very standard of good. As an adversary, Satan becomes the very standard of evil in that his role is to undermine and eliminate goodness from the world.
2. Satan was once a very highly esteemed angel in the kingdom of GOD but his pride and his ego led to his downfall.
3. Good and evil exists in the world and therefore that demonstrates that GOD and Satan does exist.

I know appeal to my opponent to actually set up another debate with the same topic or to start a forum on the topic and let's discuss this. I also would have liked my opponent to actually start with GOD. I suggest the topic "GOD is necessarily good"

As a conclusion, I must re-affirm that my opponent has conceded the debate by admitting that Satan is evil.

I thank you
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BobbyPandaram 2 years ago
BobbyPandaram
i agree with valkrin - this is a unusal debate
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
Even if the resolution was "Satan WAS an evil entity", the Bible still shows record of Satan's temptation in the past, even trying to tempt Jesus himself. https://www.biblegateway.com...
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
is: third person singular present of be.

Singular present
Opponent is arguing that Satan WAS a pure being, but now he is evil. As the resolution states "Satan IS an evil entity" this implies third person present, and thus as Con agrees Satan is evil now, he has conceded.
*slow clap*
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Only 300 vies so not really click bait.
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
I knew that this would become a click bait...
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
I'm surprised people are taking this so seriously. I didn't realize christians actually believed in satan. Does pro even believe in satan?
Posted by BobbyPandaram 2 years ago
BobbyPandaram
thank you for lifting the restrictions. Can I request that you add in another round as i think that 3 rounds will be inadequate to do justice to the topic.

Round 1 = acceptance
Round 2 = Opening Statements
Round 3 = Rebuttals
Round 4 = Closing statements.

Can we agree that the definition/ Identity of Satan is as per that in the Bible and no other. The reason for that is that that is the original source for Satan.

If this is acceptable then we are good to go.

GOD bless you
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
I thought Lucifer = Satan in terms of the Bible. What's the definition of "Satan" you propose?
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
@ Gwydion777: Actually, you're mistaking that mythical story for Lucifer's story. That is not Satan...
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
@TimothyLight: I am an atheist - to me, all of this is utter crap (no offense). Even if Satan were to appear before my sense and scientifically and rationally prove his existence, I would still deny his existence as a deity - I would only at most admit he is a Nazi LOL. Then I would proceed to Chuck Norris and Shrek him up and then Freddy Fazzbear him into Pedo Bear, if you know what I'm saying...
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
Shrek_sDrecKidBobbyPandaramTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Uncontested args, FF by Con
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
Shrek_sDrecKidBobbyPandaramTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit by Con