The Instigator
squonk
Pro (for)
The Contender
hmikeshin
Con (against)

Satan Will Defeat God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 371 times Debate No: 105907
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

squonk

Pro

I am going to be arguing that Satan will defeat God in their upcoming battle which was foretold.
hmikeshin

Con


Before I go on, I just want to make sure that we both believe that God is real for this debate (in the Christianity point of view). If not, instead of debating if Satan will or will not defeat God, we're instead debating if God is real or not.

So for this debate, let's make it given that God is real and Christianity is real. (This will play a crucial role in my proof.)

So let's look at this proof, step by step, of why Satan will NOT defeat God.

1) God is real. (Given)

2) Becuase of step 1, we can know that the Bible is real.

3) Due to this, we can know that God is all-knowing, or knows everything, than any other being. (Omniscient)
- “Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-12)
- “Whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20)

4) We can also know that God is powerful than any other being, too. (Omnipotent)
- “The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.” (John 37:23)
- "For who is God except the Lord? Who but our God is a solid rock? God is my strong fortress, and he makes my way perfect.” (2 Samuel 22:33)
- “And Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD before the new court and said, “O LORD God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you.” (2 Chronicles 20:6)

5) If He is super omniscient and omnipotent, He wouldn't create a being that would be powerful and smarter than him.

6) If He did create a being that would be smarter and powerful than him, then He wouldn't be omniscient and omnipotent.

7) If He isn't omniscient and omnipotent, then the Bible is not real which contradicts step #2.

8) This would also mean that God isn't real, which contradicts step #1.

9) However, it was GIVEN that God was real. Due to this, this could only mean that there would be no being, even Satan, that could be powerful and smarter than God, if it was GIVEN that God was to be real, which it is.


And in the Bible, there are no verses that tells that Satan would defeat God. I would totally like some sources for that argument that you are making.

I can't wait to hear from you in the next round.

Best wishes,
Jason
Debate Round No. 1
squonk

Pro

I agree with Point #1: Yahweh exists.

Point #2 is vague. What does it mean that “the Bible is real”? Obviously, the Bible is a real book. However: it does not follow from Point #1 that the Bible is entirely correct. Indeed, the Bible is not 100% correct, as it was written by multiple authors with varying perspectives over a very long period of time. Frequently, these authors disagree with one another because theology and moral attitudes evolved over time. Let’s examine two verses from the Pentateuch:

Numbers 14:18 — “The LORD is slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children to the third and the fourth generation.”

Deuteronomy 5:9 — “You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me.”

Notice in this last verse how Yahweh is concerned about the Israelites worshipping a deity other than Himself. This is evidence of monolatry, or henotheism; the adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group. The early Israelites were monolatrous, and the Bible clearly acknowledges the existence of deities other than Yahweh. Lucifer was one of these other deities.

“Satan” simply means “adversary” in Hebrew. Yahweh wants Lucifer to be viewed this way; as an enemy. This is because Yahweh is intimidated by Lucifer's power. What needs to be understood here is that the Bible is anti-Satanic propaganda. Imagine if you came across a book that spoke of God as ‘The Enemy’! Would you believe everything it said about God? I should think not! Now, why is Lucifer depicted this way in the Bible? Appropriately, it is because Lucifer and Yahweh have always been arch-enemies. But make no mistake: Lucifer is not the enemy of mankind.

Look at the world around you: who is stronger? Yahweh and His Laws are being forgotten. Church attendance is dwindling. Abortions are on the rise. We have interracial, inter-religious, and same-sex marriages. Our music promotes Satanic values: promiscuity, drug-taking, alcohol, the freedom to do what we want rather than obey God. People would rather enjoy the fruits of Science (iPads, internet, Snapchat, Xbox, 4KTV) than church, prayer, reading the Bible, religious sacraments, etc.

Now let’s look at Ezekiel 18:20: “The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.” Remember the Bible verses I mentioned earlier? Like I said: the Bible was written by multiple authors, over hundreds upon hundreds of years. Theology changed over time. Moral attitudes changed over time, and they continue to change.

So let’s go ever my argument, point-by-point:

- The Bible is the truth according to pro-Yahweh, anti-Luciferian authors.
- If you sift through all the anti-Luciferian propaghanda, you discover the truth about Lucifer:
- Lucifer is a deity, with enough power to seriously intimidate God.
- Looking at the world around us, it’s evident that Lucifer has more power and influence than God.

BONUS ARGUMENTS:

1) God is not omniscient. In Exodus 12, God requires the Israelites to "take some of the [lamb's] blood and put it on the two doorposts" so that God knows which homes to pass over on His mission to "strike down every firstborn in the land of Egypt." An omniscient god would require no sign.

2) God's power is severely limited. He can't even guarantee the Israelites success in battle. See Judges 1:19: "The Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron." Chariots of iron: a little too much for God! The ancient Israelites were God's chosen people, and look what became of them! Due to Solomon's infidelity to God, their nation was split into two kingdoms: Israel and Judah. The Assyrians conquered and destroyed Israel in 722 BCE. The Babylonians conquered Judah and exiled everybody in 597 BCE, even though the people of Judah had faithful kings, like Josiah. Yahweh couldn't protect His people from destruction, and modern Christians will be illuminated by Lucifer. God cannot avoid this.
hmikeshin

Con

I do agree with your arguments. It's really good tobe honest.

However, I forgot to mention this in the first round.

According to the bible, it says that the result of the second coming of Christ will end with a promise from God.
God promises that Satan will be destroyed and that there would be no more sin, suffering, death, etc. in the future.

- "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (NIV, Revelation 20:10)

- "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (NIV, Matthew 13:40-43)

- "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." (NIV, Revelation 21:1-4)

Best wishes,
Jason

http://www.christianbiblereference.org...
Debate Round No. 2
squonk

Pro

Well, my opponent has stated that he agrees with my argument that Satan will defeat God. I guess that's it then.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Youngastronomer 5 months ago
Youngastronomer
But God will send Satan to hell and Satan already knows it, hence he's still committing evil right now.
Posted by hmikeshin 7 months ago
hmikeshin
Geez, your argument is really good.
Posted by squonk 7 months ago
squonk
You have to read the Bible carefully to get an honest sense of who God and Satan really are, as I think I've explained in my posted argument.
Posted by I_just_plant_the_seed 7 months ago
I_just_plant_the_seed
@Squonk

So are you essentially saying that the two beings described in the bible are described wrong?

I am now forced to ask the same question again: What are the origins for Satan and God?
Posted by Mz99 7 months ago
Mz99
if you refer the "god" or "satan" to some holy books like Bible or Qur'an or the talmud, God will always the winner. satan was created by god. why would a mortal defeat its god?
Posted by squonk 7 months ago
squonk
When I refer to "God" or "Satan" I am referring to the same beings that the Bible refers to. But, I don't believe everything the Bible says about Satan. And I don't believe that God is as powerful as the Bible makes him out to be.
Posted by I_just_plant_the_seed 7 months ago
I_just_plant_the_seed
What are your origins for God and Satan? Are you referring to the biblical understanding of the two, or something else?
Posted by squonk 7 months ago
squonk
Some recent experienced have caused me to change my position on the existence of the supernatural. But, I forgot to update my profile before setting forth on creating a new debate, upon which to be used to argue for God's defeat. My opponent will argue that God will defeat Satan, and provide evidence that God is stronger than Satan.
Posted by Chunkitron 7 months ago
Chunkitron
Yea, and how do you expect the other side to counter your position exactly?
Posted by Nasid 7 months ago
Nasid
How do you mean this, being an athiest?
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