Satan does not exist as a conscious supernatural being.
Debate Rounds (5)
My last debate on this topic didn't offer any challenge from the side of Con.
I wish to debate with someone who will provide some sort of challenge, and make arguments as to why there is a conscious supernatural "Satan" being.
I accept the challenge
Me too, but there is one thing about these - in all the near death experiences there was never any Satan.
There was hell, sure, but not the "Eternal flame" kind of hell. This "hell" actually isn't eternal at all, hell is just a cleaning period and could last very long depending on the deceased's wrongful actions. Persons in hell are not tormented by a Devil or Satan. They are tormenting themselves because they are their own worst enemies. I've read about a person who saw hell and he said that he would prefer good ol' Dante's Inferno over this kind of hell any time. I get why people believe there is a "tempter". They are not willing to take responsibility for their own wrongdoings, and would rather use Satan as a scapegoat. Each of us has some nasty thoughts every now and then, but these are not thoughts which are telepathically sent to us by Satan the tempter. These are our own thoughts, and they come from the very darkest parts of our own ego. So I claim that this Satan is our own inner force, not a supernatural external force. It is not right to claim that these nasty thoughts are coming from an external supernatural source, because then you do not take responsibility for them, again with the scapegoat. It is nice to think that there would be no evil if there is no Satan, but it's just plain silly. Each person is responsible for their own thoughts and their own deeds. I also believe there is no "sin", there are only mistakes. Mistakes we need to make to learn not to repeat them. Why would you want to blame your mistakes on supernatural beings when it is you who is making them. These mistakes are something all of us have to make, for we do not develop spiritually if we do not make them. People who keep making these mistakes on purpose are labeled as "evil" or "sinners", but there is no evil, it is only ignorance. You see my friend, Hitler was not an evil person, he was just so incredibly ignorant that he was practically retarded on a spiritual level. We should not hate such a person who is retarded. Hate, anger, greed etc. are all human flaws that come directly from inside each one of us. It comes from our own ego, not some supernatural being. Hate isn't love's opposite, it is the lack of it. Evil is not good's opposite, it is the lack of it. There are powerful high vibrations such as love, and there are weak low vibrations such as hate.
I believe that ignorance is connected to evil, but also that knowledge of God leads you to know that the Devil exists just as you can distinguish light from darkness by the presence of light. We can't go by what these people experienced because their experiences might not be actual truth. Neither can i base my conclusions solely on experience. I also view sin as a mistake. You are right, people aren't willing to take responsibility for their own actions, using Satan as a scapegoat. However, we as individuals make our own choices controlling our destinies which is precisely why i think it's very plausible that he exists. God is more powerful than the Devil, thus you have the free-will to choose God's power to do good than any other power and are subject to his judgement of your actions. The tempter does not overpower you with evil, but rather he wants you to scapegoat him, so that you would excuse all the wrong you do. Satan sends false desires and thoughts, but unless someone carries them out, he has nothing.
If a parent tells his child a story about the boogeyman before bedtime,the boogeyman indeed becomes real for that child, and the child is frightened into good behaviour. But does it make the boogeyman real? Only for the child who believes in such stories. The boogeyman is a mythical creature in many cultures used by adults or older children to frighten bad children into good behavior. The same way priests use Satan to scare Christian people into good behavior. They point out to the Christian don't do that, this is bad, Satan is going to get you if you do that thing, you are going to hell if you do this thing, etc,etc. Nope, wouldn't say so. I believe you are going to hell only if you are really evil, and commit things such as murder. And even if you do go to hell, I believe there is always a way out. I mean, it's a little sick to think that you are going to be tormented for an eternity because of something you have done in only 80-90 years of your life. No matter how bad you were, there is no common sense or logic in believing someone is going to spend a whole ETERNITY of torment, because of practically milliseconds of their worthless existence in this universe. Is that how a righteous God would judge his people? That's like getting the death sentence for spitting on a side-walk!
I now let my opponent make his argument.
On the contrary, that's exactly what a righteous God would do. The judgement that a non-believer will face is the same judgement that a Christian will face. The difference? A Christian receives Christ, a perfect and sinless being, into their life to atone for their sins forever and that is how they enter heaven. It doesn't matter how many sins you have done, you can still make it to heaven through Jesus. A non-believer will go to hell not because of the sins he has committed, but the lack of faith in Jesus. To me, that's beyond fair!
Secondly, I was a Spiritual Satanist, and you could say that I too was deluding myself into believing that I am having a "first-hand experience". But it took such experiences to realize that Satan is only a part of me, not a separate being. Satan is an interior force, not an exterior force.
If you think that what you are talking about is an act of a righteous God, then I tell that God to go f**k himself. YHWH is an intolerant megalomaniac jealous bully who scares people into worshiping Him. He declares himself as the creator of the cosmos, but would a being who creates the cosmos be so mean? I thought the most powerful thing in the universe is love, yet YHWH is a God of WAR! Do some research on mythology, and you will find out that YHWH is only one of the original Canaanite gods. He was, and always will be - a God of war.
"In the oldest biblical literature (12th"11th centuries BCE), Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior" who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies; he and Israel are bound by a covenant (a feature unique in ancient Near Eastern religion) under which Yahweh will protect Israel and, in turn, Israel will not worship other gods. At a later period, Yahweh functioned as the dynastic cult (the god of the royal house), the royal courts promoting him as the supreme god over all others in the pantheon, notably Baal, El, and Asherah (the last of whom may have been his consort). Over time, Yahwism became increasingly intolerant of rivals, and the royal court and temple promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses. With the work of Second Isaiah (the theoretical author of the second part of the Book of Isaiah) towards the end of the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the true god of all the world."
How could you ever worship such a God?
So, only Christians go to heaven? It doesn't matter how good you were in this life, if you aren't Christian you go to hell? That's the exact kind of mentality I do not tolerate. People who speak such nonsense make me sick. So out of 6.9 billion people in the world, only 33% of them are going to heaven? The rest 67% are going to hell? To be tormented by Satan? Oh, what a wonderful mindset.
Please do go on about how Christianity is a beautiful religion.
People go to hell not because they are good, it's because they're not good enough, no one is. The Bible doesn't say that Satan will torment them, just pointing that out there.
Using your logic people go to hell because they're not Christians right? Because if you are not Christian, you are not good enough, am I right?
You know what bugs me? When people take the Bible literally.
One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.
Plus, you get off topic. We were discussing Satan, not God and the Bible.
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