The Instigator
SamuelMarshall999
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Truth_seeker
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Satan does not exist as a conscious supernatural being.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 767 times Debate No: 53340
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

SamuelMarshall999

Pro

First round is for acceptance only.

My last debate on this topic didn't offer any challenge from the side of Con.
I wish to debate with someone who will provide some sort of challenge, and make arguments as to why there is a conscious supernatural "Satan" being.
Truth_seeker

Con

I will argue for why Satan does exist as a conscious supernatural being

I accept the challenge
Debate Round No. 1
SamuelMarshall999

Pro

I believe that you believe in life after death and thus you believe in the near death experiences, am I right?
Me too, but there is one thing about these - in all the near death experiences there was never any Satan.
There was hell, sure, but not the "Eternal flame" kind of hell. This "hell" actually isn't eternal at all, hell is just a cleaning period and could last very long depending on the deceased's wrongful actions. Persons in hell are not tormented by a Devil or Satan. They are tormenting themselves because they are their own worst enemies. I've read about a person who saw hell and he said that he would prefer good ol' Dante's Inferno over this kind of hell any time. I get why people believe there is a "tempter". They are not willing to take responsibility for their own wrongdoings, and would rather use Satan as a scapegoat. Each of us has some nasty thoughts every now and then, but these are not thoughts which are telepathically sent to us by Satan the tempter. These are our own thoughts, and they come from the very darkest parts of our own ego. So I claim that this Satan is our own inner force, not a supernatural external force. It is not right to claim that these nasty thoughts are coming from an external supernatural source, because then you do not take responsibility for them, again with the scapegoat. It is nice to think that there would be no evil if there is no Satan, but it's just plain silly. Each person is responsible for their own thoughts and their own deeds. I also believe there is no "sin", there are only mistakes. Mistakes we need to make to learn not to repeat them. Why would you want to blame your mistakes on supernatural beings when it is you who is making them. These mistakes are something all of us have to make, for we do not develop spiritually if we do not make them. People who keep making these mistakes on purpose are labeled as "evil" or "sinners", but there is no evil, it is only ignorance. You see my friend, Hitler was not an evil person, he was just so incredibly ignorant that he was practically retarded on a spiritual level. We should not hate such a person who is retarded. Hate, anger, greed etc. are all human flaws that come directly from inside each one of us. It comes from our own ego, not some supernatural being. Hate isn't love's opposite, it is the lack of it. Evil is not good's opposite, it is the lack of it. There are powerful high vibrations such as love, and there are weak low vibrations such as hate.
Truth_seeker

Con

While i do believe in life after death, i am a bit skeptical of near death experiences. But have you had a near-death experience? If not, it doesn't seem logical to cite that as evidence for him being non-existent because i can talk about cases in which people have seen him face to face.

I believe that ignorance is connected to evil, but also that knowledge of God leads you to know that the Devil exists just as you can distinguish light from darkness by the presence of light. We can't go by what these people experienced because their experiences might not be actual truth. Neither can i base my conclusions solely on experience. I also view sin as a mistake. You are right, people aren't willing to take responsibility for their own actions, using Satan as a scapegoat. However, we as individuals make our own choices controlling our destinies which is precisely why i think it's very plausible that he exists. God is more powerful than the Devil, thus you have the free-will to choose God's power to do good than any other power and are subject to his judgement of your actions. The tempter does not overpower you with evil, but rather he wants you to scapegoat him, so that you would excuse all the wrong you do. Satan sends false desires and thoughts, but unless someone carries them out, he has nothing.
Debate Round No. 2
SamuelMarshall999

Pro

Yes, I know stories about people on acid who claim to have seen him face to face, but does that prove anything? I didn't have any NDE's but I do have spontaneus OBE's , and sleep paralysis. I can tell you this, some darker/low-vibration spirits do exists, but these are too weak, and they are not Satan. Most of them aren't even conscious, but are a manifestation of your own thought, a thought-form. Have you heard of the Tulpa effect? You believe that something is real and thus it becomes real in your life. Thought-forms feed on your own thoughts, your own energy, but without you they cannot exist, for they will starve to death. If you believe there is an evil Satan being, you create an unconscious being that feeds on your emotions,thoughts etc.
If a parent tells his child a story about the boogeyman before bedtime,the boogeyman indeed becomes real for that child, and the child is frightened into good behaviour. But does it make the boogeyman real? Only for the child who believes in such stories. The boogeyman is a mythical creature in many cultures used by adults or older children to frighten bad children into good behavior. The same way priests use Satan to scare Christian people into good behavior. They point out to the Christian don't do that, this is bad, Satan is going to get you if you do that thing, you are going to hell if you do this thing, etc,etc. Nope, wouldn't say so. I believe you are going to hell only if you are really evil, and commit things such as murder. And even if you do go to hell, I believe there is always a way out. I mean, it's a little sick to think that you are going to be tormented for an eternity because of something you have done in only 80-90 years of your life. No matter how bad you were, there is no common sense or logic in believing someone is going to spend a whole ETERNITY of torment, because of practically milliseconds of their worthless existence in this universe. Is that how a righteous God would judge his people? That's like getting the death sentence for spitting on a side-walk!

I now let my opponent make his argument.
Truth_seeker

Con

There is a difference between believing in stories and actually having a first-hand experience. I created a fear within me for believing in the boogeyman, however i never saw the boogey-man. I have however met Satan face to face. I disagree with the notion that Satan was created to cause people to be good by fear tactics.In reality, Satan wants people to attribute all evil to him and fear him because they become his slaves and only let him win. On top of that, i have never met a Christian who has that mentality. In reality, it is God who judges all.

On the contrary, that's exactly what a righteous God would do. The judgement that a non-believer will face is the same judgement that a Christian will face. The difference? A Christian receives Christ, a perfect and sinless being, into their life to atone for their sins forever and that is how they enter heaven. It doesn't matter how many sins you have done, you can still make it to heaven through Jesus. A non-believer will go to hell not because of the sins he has committed, but the lack of faith in Jesus. To me, that's beyond fair!
Debate Round No. 3
SamuelMarshall999

Pro

First of all, that experience you had sounds very subjective, you do not have any proof of it.

Secondly, I was a Spiritual Satanist, and you could say that I too was deluding myself into believing that I am having a "first-hand experience". But it took such experiences to realize that Satan is only a part of me, not a separate being. Satan is an interior force, not an exterior force.

If you think that what you are talking about is an act of a righteous God, then I tell that God to go f**k himself. YHWH is an intolerant megalomaniac jealous bully who scares people into worshiping Him. He declares himself as the creator of the cosmos, but would a being who creates the cosmos be so mean? I thought the most powerful thing in the universe is love, yet YHWH is a God of WAR! Do some research on mythology, and you will find out that YHWH is only one of the original Canaanite gods. He was, and always will be - a God of war.

"In the oldest biblical literature (12th"11th centuries BCE), Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior" who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies; he and Israel are bound by a covenant (a feature unique in ancient Near Eastern religion) under which Yahweh will protect Israel and, in turn, Israel will not worship other gods. At a later period, Yahweh functioned as the dynastic cult (the god of the royal house), the royal courts promoting him as the supreme god over all others in the pantheon, notably Baal, El, and Asherah (the last of whom may have been his consort). Over time, Yahwism became increasingly intolerant of rivals, and the royal court and temple promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses. With the work of Second Isaiah (the theoretical author of the second part of the Book of Isaiah) towards the end of the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the true god of all the world."

How could you ever worship such a God?

So, only Christians go to heaven? It doesn't matter how good you were in this life, if you aren't Christian you go to hell? That's the exact kind of mentality I do not tolerate. People who speak such nonsense make me sick. So out of 6.9 billion people in the world, only 33% of them are going to heaven? The rest 67% are going to hell? To be tormented by Satan? Oh, what a wonderful mindset.

Please do go on about how Christianity is a beautiful religion.
Truth_seeker

Con

And what made you think that Satan did not exist?

People go to hell not because they are good, it's because they're not good enough, no one is. The Bible doesn't say that Satan will torment them, just pointing that out there.
Debate Round No. 4
SamuelMarshall999

Pro

No, you don't get what I'm saying. I'm saying that it exists in each one of us, not a separate being. The only nasty ol' Satan, is in you and I, my friend. That is why Satan does not exist as a "CONSCIOUS SUPERNATURAL BEING". Satan is a force, an energy. Each one of us has his own individual Satan.

Using your logic people go to hell because they're not Christians right? Because if you are not Christian, you are not good enough, am I right?

You know what bugs me? When people take the Bible literally.

One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.
Truth_seeker

Con

Well, you haven't explained specifically why Satan doesn't exist as a conscious being based on your experience mentioned in Round 4. My position is that he exists as a conscious being based on experience and knowledge of God.

Plus, you get off topic. We were discussing Satan, not God and the Bible.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I think you are in rebellion against God. It's futile.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
if you are being honest, which I doubt, you are not taking the Lord's name in vain when you start this comment by prayerfully saying "oh, my God". I think you are lying, and using the Lord's name in vain, not praying. God knows.........but my gut tells me you are lying.
Posted by SamuelMarshall999 3 years ago
SamuelMarshall999
Oh, my God.

Yes, you are completely right my friend. I am sorry, I am truly sorry that I have doubted the Christian religion.

Thank you for opening my eyes to the unconditional love of Jesus Christ, which I was to blind to see.

I shall repent and ask Jesus to save my sinful soul.

May God bless you.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
nice scare tacticts? seeing a person boldly and blindly falling down into the fire of hell and trying to tell them how to be saved is a scare tactic and not a mission of pity? You are a proud, brave, fool thinking you have the right to be spared from the fire prepared for the devil.........and willfully ignorant to say God does not care. You are running out of time, God will not be patient with you forever. You will not escape if yoiu finalize yiour death in trampling His bllood under your feet, thinking you can take care of yourself throughout eternity and you need no mercy from God. If you finalize your death this way, you can be sure you will not obtain mercy from God and you will get all the proof of hell fire and the reality of Satan that you are trying to convince yourself does not exist. I'm being kind to try to tell you. ".....knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon Him while He is near. He wants you to believe and trust Him today. He loves you and does not want you to be lost. God made man in His own image, by choice we have become like devils. Satan is the father of lies, you are like your father the devil. God wants you to be born again to be His child and enter his mercy and protection from sin, death, and hell. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Will you tire of the pleasures of sin before all pleasure in the world is lost? Take sides with God against your sin and thank Him for the blood He gave to pay for your sin, recieve the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour and eternal life will be yours. Go your own way and you have eternal death.......you are in stage 1 of death, stage 2 is the Lake of Fire............you will go on somewhere........heaven or hell..........it's on you to believe it or not now........you sure will believe it before too long.
Posted by SamuelMarshall999 3 years ago
SamuelMarshall999
Nice scare tactits, bro. ;)
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Yes, of course God who created you and loves you wants you to think He is real and that He cares about you. Yes, Satan wants you to think he does not exist. Satan wants to see you destroyed in the fire of hell. God Himself died in your place, He paid for your sin so you could be pardoned from the devil's punishment of hell fire. You must receive Him as your Saviour, accept His payment of His blood for your sin and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead. Satan wants you to believe that he and the fire of hell are not real. God has the right to cast you into the fire of hell if you reject His death which He took in your place. If you reject Him, He will reject you. He is giving you time to change your mind. Once your death is finalized, it's too late. There is only one way your sin can be fully paid for, God HImself paid so He can be just to cast into hell fire all who rebell against Him. He created you, He has the right to do whatever He pleases. Don't be a devil's fool. You talk like a devil but you don't know what you are saying, you don't see where you are going. Believe before it's too late and you are forced to see when you wake up in the fire of hell. The proof is there. It will be forced on you eventually if you insist on finalizing your death thnking you have the right to be spared from the fire of hell. This is reality, jesus Chrsit is God, He is reality, not religion. If you reject Him after He died to pay for your sins so you could be forgiven, you will not be forgiven and you will be rejected as you are rejectting Him while He is knocking on your door and you insist you can't hear Him.
I'm afraid I'm wasting my time with a proud, brave, fool trying to warn you of the danger you re in
Posted by SamuelMarshall999 3 years ago
SamuelMarshall999
So Satan wants me to think Satan doesn't exist? Then I guess God wants me to think that God exists! ;)

Why yes, Satan is indeed a person and he is whispering little voices into my head and leading me astray! Help me get saved, please!

How can a part of me be smarter then me?

Christianity has you blinded my friend.

So basically, except Jesus or BURN, right? Non-Christians will BURN, oh what a wonderful mindset! :)

And where is this proof of heaven and hell? There is NONE, 0, NOTHING!

Oh, but incredible suffering will be forced upon me if I do not accept your religion? Please, you're scaring me...
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
There is proof of heaven and the fire of hell. It will be forced upon you if you don't believe it and get saved before it's too late. You need to be bugged. Better to be bugged while you are breathing air than to be bugged by the fire of hell.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Satan is a person the same as you. He is a fallen angel, you are a fallen man or woman. He is smarter than you. He has you blinded. He wants to see you destroyed in the fire of hell which God created for the devil and the devil's angels. The only difference between you and the devil is you have a body that will burn in the fire. Satan will be confined in the fire only burning in anger. You will burn in body if you don't get saved. Jesus died in your place to pay for your sins so He could save you from the fire of Hell. receive Him by faith and be saved. God does not want you to be cast away into hell, but you leave Him no choice if you will not accept His payment for your sins by His own blood. Jesus will be your Judge if not your Saviour.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Satan wants you to think he does not exist and it looks like he is having his way with you.
No votes have been placed for this debate.