The Instigator
James.ticknor
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
pcmbrown
Con (against)
Losing
35 Points

Satanism is a good thing.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,788 times Debate No: 7974
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (12)

 

James.ticknor

Pro

Satanism is basically the worshipment of Satan, believed to want to become the ruler of heaven. Satanism is just like any other religion, except the view of Christianity is that he is bad. It is important to realize that this unites people like being Jewish or a Catholic or anything else.

(I apologize for the short arguement, I never did like going first!)

(P.S. I am a Christian, I just thought that this would be an interesting debate.)
pcmbrown

Con

Satanism is basically the worshipment of Satan, believed to want to become the ruler of heaven. Satanism is just like any other religion, except the view of Christianity is that he is bad. It is important to realize that this unites people like being Jewish or a Catholic or anything else.

I negate, "Resolved: Satanism is a good thing."

Definitions: "Resolved: [The concept and institution of Theistic Satanism] is [of positive societal benefit]"

Please note that the burden of proof lies with my opponent.

1. Organized religion does not benefit society. Organized religion relies upon set, dogmatic beliefs. These lead to holy wars and religious terrorism, leading to massive loss of life, applicable to citizens to a greater degree than other wars and acts of terrorism. They ultimately reduce cooperation between religious groups by increasing conflict and abrasiveness, leading to today's failure of U.S.-Middle East relations. Organized religion has also led to the halting of scientific progress, racist ideologies, and patriachal rule. Satanism is an organized religion, and therefore, of negative benefit to society.

2. Satanism has specific detriments. Theistic Satanism was created at direct odds with Christianity, and, in fact, any religion which espouses the concept of a Satan figure as an evil being. Therefore, the level of conflict with Judeo-Christian societies is far higher. Theistic Satanism has led to many offshoots which espouse a vengeant, hedonistic cult midset.

Pro case: I have already demonstrated that organized religion, specifically Satanism, divides society, rather than uniting it.

Thank you for the debate, and I await your response.
Debate Round No. 1
James.ticknor

Pro

My opponent presented a strong arguement, however there is one major flaw in his case. Religion does unify people.

Religion unites people with a common belief. Christianity unites people under the idea that we should live like Christ wants us to. In the time of Ceaser, the Catholic church was an important part of that era. It united all of Europe, however religious intolerance and murder are traits of mankind and are not commended in that religion, so killing should not be held accountable for any religion unless it directly promotes it.

Secondly, who is to say what is evil? Everyone has done something evil. Satanism just supports the idea that you are your own boss. It is not all about killing people and terrorism. My opponent said, "They ultimately reduce cooperation between religious groups by increasing conflict and abrasiveness" While Theistic Satanism may be at direct odds with Christianity, what religion doesn't conflict with each other? Not many. Like I also said, religious intolerance is a trait of man, not that religion.

To further support my case, let me inform you that Satanism is not all pentagrams. That is actually a misconception of the Wiccan religion, because everything bad in the world is associated with this religion. Rape, murder, death-it's not true.

Also, religion is not the sole cause of the war in Iraq and I doubt that Satanism is causing us to fail.

(I love you and your delicious pop tarts. Good luck and you're welcome)
pcmbrown

Con

1. People are naturally unified through the tendency toward civilization. Religion divides them and subdivides them. First, Christians turn against Muslims, then, it's Protestants versus Catholics and Shi'ites versus Sunnis. This creates conflict, rather than lessening it (the purpose of union). Militants use religion to justify their actions. Therefore, religion must be held accountable.

2. Theistic Satanism creates greater controversy than the average religion. I never called Satanism evil, I merely stated that other religions veiw it as such, hence, conflict. Religious intolerance is a result of organized religion. Therefore, organized religion is the cause of said conflict, and is of detriment to society.

3. I never stated that Satanism supports rape, merely that it espouses a cultish outlook. Cults are inherently anti-social. You entirely fail to adress this.

Religion is the sole cause of our current relations with the Middle East. I did not specify the Iraq War.

I await your defense.
Debate Round No. 2
James.ticknor

Pro

Cults are, indeed, anti-social. If they are bad as you state, then it is probably a good thing that they (and other cults) do not commune with society. However, not every form of Satanism is a cult.

I would like to point out that you are specifying on only Theistic Satanism. There are other forms of satanism that are not AS conflicting with society. You also stated that "Religious intolerance is a result of organized religion. Therefore, organized religion is the cause of said conflict" If any organized religion creates conflict, then you are saying that every religion ever created is bad.

You said that you didn't say it was evil. If it isn't evil, then what's wrong with it? Our government gives us freedom of religion, and they are duty bound to protect the public. If Satanism isn't evil and it does not cause harm to society why is it a bad thing?

People may be unifed through civilization, but religion gives people something in common, and just because Satanism isn't widely accepted, doesn't mean that it is bad. People are bad.
pcmbrown

Con

You have accepted my definition, Theistic Satanism. Therefore, it is this form that our debate concerns.

I am indeed saying that dogmatic, organized religion is generally detrimental to society, for the given reasons.

I have explained that Satanism harms society as an organized religion. You have not demonstrated its benefits, and the burden of proof lies with you.

You drop my points regarding both the harms of organized religion, and the specific harms of Satanism. Therefore, my impacts of war, terrorism, and the prevention of cooperation stand. Your only offensive point, "religion gives people something in common" is hugely outweighed.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
James.ticknor

Pro

There will always be conflicting idologies and beliefs, but that does not nessicarily mean that anything that causes conflict is bad. Fighting for what you believe is worth fighting for, or else we'd all be so submissive we couldn't stand up for ourselves. Like Isral for example, it's religion (Jewish) is causing major problems. It caused problems with Hitler too, but just because the religion is there, doesn't mean that it is bad, but we are both getting off the topic of specific Satanism.

Satanism is an organized religion, but it is more often practiced independently (Have you ever seen a Satanic...uh...church? That's not the word I'm looking for, but you get the point). But any organized religion causes problems, this can not be avoided, even if you don't have one, somone will dislike the fact that you don't have one.

The spefic harms of Satanism are basically what you said, except for war. We haven't went to war over Satainism. But look at other religions. Jewish, Christians, Musliums- they all have had much more harm than Satanism, in much larger doses, so your arguement is benign.

(Good luck, friend)
pcmbrown

Con

Organized religion is inherently bad, given the harms that I have presented, and my opponent has failed to refute. And yes, anything that causes conflict is bad, because it causes mass deaths. My opponent fails to provide how this is either positive, or at the least, neutral. Satanism is an organized religion. Therefore these harms apply.

Satanism, as I have said, causes problems. It creates greater conflict than agnostic beliefs, and is therefore of net harmful effect.

I am stating that all organized religions are bad. You have failed to provide the benefits of Satanism to society, which it is your responsibility to do. I have shown its harms. Even if other religions are worse, Satanism is of societal detriment.

Thank you
Debate Round No. 4
James.ticknor

Pro

Once again, you are stating that all religions are bad, but I am talking about specifically Satanism. We have never went to war over Satanism. You must understand the teachings of Satanism and the values of it, which I know. Allow me to explain in simple terms. Satanism (generally speaking) is the theory that you are your own boss. It does not go hand-in-hand with rape, murder, and molestation, because it does not commend it.

You said "Organized religion is inherantly bad, given the harms I have presented." and "It creates greater conflict than agnostic beliefs, and is therefore of net harmful effect." But you did not say how specifically Satanism creates conflict, you just stated the conflicts of all organized religions. I implore you not to generalize on all religions, like you are doing now, but to focus on specific Satanism. This is why most of your arguements to me do not deserve an answer, because they are going off the main topic of "Satanism is a good thing."

That is where you are wrong. In order for it to be a good thing, it doesn't nessicarly have to be of benifet or contribution to society. All it has to do (in order to be good) is to do something positive, whether for a community or for a single individual. This provides you with a belief on how you should live your life and instills ideals and values in a person, which we all need.

It's impossible to state it's benifet to society anyways, because society has different beliefs on religion. Besides, it is in the interest of self preservation, not community preservation, and actually allows you to take better care of yourself.
pcmbrown

Con

Although you are talking specificallly about Satanism, Satanism is an organized religion. I have shown that organized religion is inherently bad. Nowhere in my case do I mention rape and molestation, these are defensive arguements irrelevant to the round.

Once again, organized religion is harmful. Satanism, as an organized religion is harmful, because it creates conflict and reduces cooperation.

My opponent fails to provide any real case as to why Satanism is, indeed, good. His main point is that it promotes self-preservation, which is inherent within any person. Individuals do not require religion to act in their own intersts. In fact, self-preservation is often contradictory to societal good. In regards to this, my opponent states "It's impossible to state it's benifet to society anyways". Essentially, he provides no reasons as to why Satanism is actually "good". The Proposition has he burden of proof, and he has failed to prove the resolution true, whereas I have presented its harms.

I urge a Contradictory vote. Thank you for the debate, and thanks for reading.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by James.ticknor 7 years ago
James.ticknor
Now tied...
Posted by James.ticknor 8 years ago
James.ticknor
...it appears that I am losing...
Posted by James.ticknor 8 years ago
James.ticknor
Thanks for the debate man, it's been fun. I'll challenge you to another one later!
Posted by pcmbrown 8 years ago
pcmbrown
o my, thats a tad perverse
Posted by James.ticknor 8 years ago
James.ticknor
it looked better when I was typing. My pic messed it up. Hehe
Posted by James.ticknor 8 years ago
James.ticknor
Heh, lolcatz are incredably stupid...nah, I prefer Youporn.com. (That's a whooping stickfigure btw)
l /
\ / ___________
\O < HORRAY!!!!!l
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/ / \
Posted by pcmbrown 8 years ago
pcmbrown
lolcatz especially
Posted by pcmbrown 8 years ago
pcmbrown
o, sorry, didnt read the comments before accepting
Posted by James.ticknor 8 years ago
James.ticknor
(insert laughter here) Yes, I probably will lose, but I like the JandJ sandwhich commercial with the screaming thing on it that looks like a stamp. Besides, if I get too depressed, I can always look at some pictures of cats...I like cats....actually, I don't, I detest them, but they are so nice.....cats....pickled eggs....asdjf.....
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
I got beaten to it. Darn.
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Itsallovernow
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