The Instigator
AngilCorey
Pro (for)
Winning
23 Points
The Contender
kenito001
Con (against)
Losing
22 Points

School Vouchers are a way to end Social Program dependancy.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/8/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,006 times Debate No: 1532
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (13)

 

AngilCorey

Pro

School choice is the first step in drastically lowering and eventually ending social reliance on federally funded programs. By allowing all children, regardless of social standing, to obtain the best education available, we enable them to end the cycle of poverty by way of ending the cycle of ignorance. Offering our poor, handicapped, and non-conventional learners the opportunity explore and obtain educational opportunities that will allow them to advance through life in an upwardly mobile manor is the best social assistance that we as a people can offer. Just because a family cannot afford to live in the best neighborhood doesn't not/should not mean that money should be diverted from those neighborhoods to be distributed in lower income communities. Allowing families choice will do much more create a balance in inequalities in education.

Competition between schools and systems will also provide a better system as seen though the capitalistic system of America. Competition fosters the best in our abilities and enables us to weed out and terminate institutions that are not providing at an acceptable level. This too balances the quality of education between the rich and poor.

Finally, giving teachers the choice to work in a private sector school without union representation forced upon them or the choice to maintain status quo within a governmental school, will provide two completely different sets of thought in education - the traditional or contemporary. This too gives teachers the chance to compete for higher wages, better benefits and the ability to teach in manor's that would not be possible within public schools.

Overall, if one is to support social programs it is foolish and self defeating to deny the overall benefits of school choice via vouchers.
kenito001

Con

kenito001 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
AngilCorey

Pro

A way to prevent inflation due to vouchers, is to limit those eligible households to those at or below 200% of the poverty rate. Thus, only those children who are truly in need of an alternative will garner assistance. Also, in lieu of monetary value - vouchers should simply be no more than a place holder - a ticket, for a student's attendance at a school of choice. Both federal and state moneys should follow the voucher to the institution that the family chooses - otherwise money need not be a factor in this program. Virtually, if not exactly, like the Charter School alternative.
kenito001

Con

To end Social Program dependency on the level of secondary education, the US must make all students have access to a proper education. School vouchers merely award a select few students to transfer from failing schools to better ones. Ending social program dependency would require saving all of the students that attend the failing school, not just a select few. If any major result is seen, taking away the best students would further deteriorate the credibility and status of the public institution. School vouchers are a band-aid that slows the bleeding, but does not solve the problem.
Debate Round No. 2
AngilCorey

Pro

When failing schools loose students, and enrollment falls to such levels that keeping these schools open does no more than provided employment rather than education, these schools would be shut down, restructured or possible put under the management of a Charter School firm. Many options would remain for these schools to bounce back and achieve success if those within the school and community wish it to.

Money would not be a factor for student choice with voucher's. Grades would not be a factor. Students would apply and be accepted on a first come, first serve basis - thus ensuring a mix of differing cultures, abilities and the opportunity for many issues to be resolved.

As a child who personally went from an inner-city school to a more affluent community and school system, I have seen what can result thanks to change of environment and increased mentorship of our peers via example of the life that is possible for all of us. Although once on welfare as a child, medicaid and government housing - these subsidies were never an option for me due to the fact that in the new environment they were not the norm. Knowing that there is more available to me in life via example has altered my entire destiny.

Give families the choice to do better for their children in education by allowing families to determine and rally behind the systems, community, policy and results they find in a school regardless of the community in which they live. This will drastically diminished the welfare rolls in the future - for so many blame education and the discrepancy thereof for these full rolls today.
kenito001

Con

" When failing schools loose students, and enrollment falls to such levels that keeping these schools open does no more than provided employment rather than education, these schools would be shut down, restructured or possible put under the management of a Charter School firm. Many options would remain for these schools to bounce back and achieve success if those within the school and community wish it to."
1) Your system abandons the students lost in the transitional period between institution of vouchers and rebuilding of poorer schools. It rewards a select group of students, not the entire society under social programs.
2) Your system is flawed. The end result of a failing school that loses its money is that the school closes and the students are transferred to other underdeveloped public schools, making these other schools that are on the brink of failing even worse off.
3) The supply of Charter School firms does not meet the demand of schools.

"Money would not be a factor for student choice with voucher's. Grades would not be a factor. Students would apply and be accepted on a first come, first serve basis - thus ensuring a mix of differing cultures, abilities and the opportunity for many issues to be resolved."
This makes a lottery for selecting students for school vouchers. Assuming that there are no such criteria, then your selected students may be under-qualified or waste this opportunity and not even lift themselves out of dependency.

"As a child who personally went from an inner-city school to a more affluent community and school system, I have seen what can result thanks to change of environment and increased mentorship of our peers via example of the life that is possible for all of us. Although once on welfare as a child, medicaid and government housing - these subsidies were never an option for me due to the fact that in the new environment they were not the norm. Knowing that there is more available to me in life via example has altered my entire destiny."
Knowing what is available is quite different from one being readily able to take an opportunity or advantage. Integral in ending social program dependency is providing the same opportunity or advantage for all. You take this issue semi-correctly on a much more Micro scale, however it must be observed as a Macro one.

"This will drastically diminished the welfare rolls in the future "
It will diminish welfare rolls, but not drastically. Because education is a rivalrous good these students must contend with one another and the students at their new school for elevated opportunities. Past secondary education, these students are dependent on need-based scholarships that their grades and college applications must allow them to qualify for. For every group of students that are given school vouchers, only a few of them will succeed in the manner which you propose.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Parents can deny that CHOICE because they wouldn't have enough information to make a good decision. Private schools are not required to take the same tests as public schools, and thats assuming standardized tests are even accurate enough to give a fair assessment of a school. Voucher programs have to be voluntary for private schools because wealthy parents at those schools wouldn't want "those" people in their schools without a say in it. There would be huge political backlash if you made it mandatory. Let me guess, that would all be taken care of in your plan as well?

I did a report for my policy analysis class on voucher programs in the country, including those in Ohio. A researcher named Kim Metcalf was hired by your state legislature to look into the voucher programs in Cleveland and evaluate their performance. She found, along with an analysis done regarding Milwaukee's voucher programs, that students did not perform any better than they did in their failing public schools.

Meanwhile, egregious lapses of oversight allowed many instances of corruption. In fact, the Akron Beacon Journal said "rather than bring about a shift from public to private schools, the voucher program merely slowed an exodus from Cleveland's Catholic schools to the city's public schools", illustrating even further that vouchers are much more about funneling money to private and religious schools than about reforming education in your state.

No evidence that the GAO would consider objective and scientific supports the idea that vouchers work. Instead, they sap money from already impoverished schools and fatten private school's budgets. Vouchers make the problem worse, not better.
Posted by AngilCorey 9 years ago
AngilCorey
Consider this - under my plan private schools would not be able to deny these programs or they would not receive a charter to operate. Little choice for the private schools.

In Ohio, where I live, many programs are popping up from voucher programs to Charter Schools. Local schools are listening and reforming. It is working. However, not all have these options. Again, if we expect to compete with the world, how is it to be if we cannot compete within ourselves to bring out the best in us?

Under my plan, with my rules and guidelines, all would benefit. If you, as a parent, did not want to participate, you would have that right. However, how could one who believes in CHOICE in all manor of other areas deny this to those who are seaking is so passionately? Again, those with over 200% of the poverty level income would not be eligible - and schools would be mandated, private or not, to work within these guidelines.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
After looking at it, you find that vouchers are just another means for private companies and churches to get their hands on public money. Vouchers don't help anyone. Voucher students perform at the same level as they did before they got a voucher. This is because their parents are more involved in their child's education than most other parents. These students were the top performers at their failing school, but they didn't do any better at their new school.

And you can't ensure that vouchers lead to school choice since it is the private schools that do the picking, not the parents or students. Most private schools would not accept vouchers if it came with such government regulation, as evidenced by the now unconstitutional voucher program in Florida. Over 90% of eligible private schools refused to take voucher money because they didn't want to have to give up their ability to selectively choose who would get in.

There is no evidence to show that competition helps schools. In fact, the evidence from every voucher program shows the opposite. Yet, conservatives hold onto free-market principles for everything like they're following a religion. At some point, all sane people must stop and recognize when their ideas keep failing in the face of evidence.
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Vote Placed by U.n 11 months ago
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Vote Placed by kenito001 7 years ago
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