The Instigator
varto11
Pro (for)
The Contender
KostasT.1526
Con (against)

School is there to brainwash people.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/4/2017 Category: Education
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 536 times Debate No: 104291
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

varto11

Pro

They teach you nothing but useless information that you will never use in the real world.There are kids with diffrent talents diffrent needs and interests and they treat everyone the same.If a kid wants to be singer or actor he dosent need to learn maths or physics but they force you to.They are pouring ussles infomation into the young minds of children and are crating mindless robots that will obey.You have to ask to go to toilet you cant speak you have to stay like machine for 7+ hrs.And its not only that they give you homework to control even outside of school.Why to create mindless robot who wont ask questions and will obey the system.And they have scuseeded in doing soo.
KostasT.1526

Con

Hello, and thank you for the debate.

My opponent is very unclear. Whom exactly does he define as "they"? I would like to have that explained.

Moreover, I believe that major mistakes are made in my opponent's syllogism. I will rephrase the points made, elaborating on them one by one, hoping to clarify some things that my opponent probably has misunderstood. It goes as follows:
"They teach you nothing but useless information that you will never use in the real world.There are kids with diffrent talents diffrent needs and interests and they treat everyone the same.If a kid wants to be singer or actor he dosent need to learn maths or physics but they force you to.They are pouring ussles infomation into the young minds of children"
My opponent forgets that there are reasons for children to be taught multiple subjects. Exactly because they may later become interested in one of the numerous subjects they are taught depending on their beliefs, talents or preferences, they have to get an insight into all of them. One cannot have an objective view on a field they have not studied (up to a degree, of course). If not given adequate information on all the available subjects, they are unable to make a proper choice, that will define their future. Students are able to make a mature decision on such matters usually after reaching a certain age (I would say probably around 16-17 years old). The multiple subjects system gives them the chance to get an idea of various fields of study, being quite a helping factor to their decision. It is not like, for example, a kid who is not aware the Newtonian laws would ever have an interest in physics, for they would not even know what physics is in the first place. I believe I have made my point clear.
Furthermore, the idea that subjects such as physics or maths would be unnecessary to a singer or an actor (using my opponent's example) is totally false. Why? It is really simple: Is it not astonishing that a high percentage of these singers, actors and so on are now, for instance, becoming flat earthers? This is the inevitable result of skipping physics and math classes because singing or acting have nothing to do with them. The point is, while one's job may not require knowledge of a variety of subjects, reality and everyday life do.

"and are crating mindless robots that will obey.You have to ask to go to toilet you cant speak you have to stay like machine for 7+ hrs.And its not only that they give you homework to control even outside of school.Why to create mindless robot who wont ask questions and will obey the system.And they have scuseeded in doing soo."
I disagree. My opponent claims that all the above happen in order to control children and turn them into, as they described it, mindless robots, but does not take the practical reasons into account. It is true that children at school have to obey certain sets of regulations and restrictions. But, to quote Sigmund Freud [1], every human civilisation needs such a set of rules, in order to succeed in the settlement of the relations among the people and the proper distribution of the available goods (I used this definition from another debate of mine, namely "Atheism is problematic"). School too is miniature of the society, and therefore such rules have to exist. To answer concerning the specific mentioned examples too, I should point out that:
1. If children were to go to the toilet without permission and anytime they felt like it, I doubt that more than half of the class would be present during the lesson. It is apparent that such freedom would not be wisely given to the students.
2. I ask the reader to imagine a class in which students are allowed to talk freely to each other. The situation would be chaotic. In fact, if I were the teacher, I would quit right away.
3. I proved the significance of being taught numerous subjects above. It is only natural for that many subjects to require the student in the class for seven or more hours.
4. Homework is not assigned to control students outside of the school, but rather to test their ability to memorise and to put the knowledge they have gained in practical use.

I also do not see how the sole purpose of schools, according to my opponent, is to brainwash students. How can one be so sure that "school is there to brainwash people"? School teaches children about a wide variety of subjects and prepares them for the society in which they will eventually have to fend for themselves. I do not understand what do these have to do with brainwashing.

Note that I do not completely support the current educational system (at least the one I experience, in Greece), for it does have issues that need to be fixed. But the idea that it is set in order to brainwash children is absurd.

As my opponent did not present any rules for the debate, I will instead:
1. New arguments will not be allowed in R4.
2. It is suggested that, except from further rebuttals, both sides present a conclusive summary of the debate in R4
3. No forfeit is allowed
If my opponent has any objections to the above, he should state them in R2

Sources:
1. http://firmitas.org...
Sigmund Freud on religion and human civilisation, "The future of an illusion"
Debate Round No. 1
varto11

Pro

Countries like Finland give their students freedom and no homeworks they value creativity and working with each other.And you know whats they their system outperforms all other in the world.School has stayed the same for over 300+ years while the world arround is changed school didnt.The system we have in school now was created 300 years ago to prepare students for mindless working in factories.Thats why they tell you when you can eat to raise you hand if you want to speak up.World has changed to wanting not people who work in factories and people who are told what they have to do but to people who are creative and think outside of the box.You stated that students wont go to class you give them too much freedom but why do you thinks is that students arent going to class because they find it prepetiive and borring if they make it interesting with information that students will have use when they get in the real world like how to vite pay taxes and stuff like that they wont run away from class.Countries likeFinland show that when you give students freedom and make them learn interesting things that will have some use outside of school students preform better than the whole world.
KostasT.1526

Con

Definitions:

Brainwashing [1]:
or brain-washing, brain washing
[breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing]
noun
1.a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, especially through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.
2.any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion:
brainwashing by TV commercials.
3.an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques:
efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences.

Indoctrination [2]:
[in-dok-truh-ney-shuh n]
noun
1.the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view:
religious indoctrination.

Doctrine [3]:
[dok-trin]
1.a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government:
Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine.
2.something that is taught; teachings collectively:
religious doctrine.
3.a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject:
the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My opponent did not answer my initial question, namely whom do they refer to as "they". I hope that I will receive a clarification on the next round concerning this matter.

According to my opponent's train of thought, the innovative school system used mainly in Finland is the most successful. I agree. Never did I deny that some methods used in the average today's school are flawed or retrogressive. In fact, I made sure I mentioned that " I do not completely support the current educational system (at least the one I experience, in Greece), for it does have issues that need to be fixed" (see R1).
Now, to get to the point, I would like to comment on my opponent's statement shown below:
"The system we have in school now was created 300 years ago to prepare students for mindless working in factories.Thats why they tell you when you can eat to raise you hand if you want to speak up.World has changed to wanting not people who work in factories and people who are told what they have to do but to people who are creative and think outside of the box."
My opponent claims that the education purpose is set up in order to brainwash children. Through the provided definitions in the beginning of this argument, one should be able to figure out that brainwashing happens only with an objective. To clarify any misunderstandings, I should point out that, by "objective", I refer to the belief, or the doctrine, into which the individual is being brainwashed. Therefore, the act of brainwashing requires an objective. The one my opponent proposed for this topic is the preparation of students to mindlessly work on factories and do what they are told. In order to confirm their initial claim, my opponent has to irrefutably prove this one. I, on the other hand, will have to prove the opposite. The burden of proof in this debate is henceforth shared.
I will now elaborate on my thesis on the remarked claim.
First of all, the educational system exists to provide the student with the knowledge necessary to their life in the society. When the individual finishes their education, they are required to seek for and seize the best job opportunities possible, the latter depending on their talents, liking or social and economic status preferences, ranging from sciences to politics and from literature study to sports, and with school being the stepping stone. One is usually unable to achieve their goal without proper education. Due to the progress of the human civilization and especially of the sciences, the information the student needs to learn is massive, making the process pressing if new and more successful systems such as Finland's are not used. It is worthy to point out, though, that the student is not obliged to go through the educational processes and is allowed to take them partially, if so they wish, depending on their plans for their future.
If one contends that the whole society is built in a way that promotes competing for job opportunities and thus capitalistic economy they may go ahead. But the educational system is not to blame, as the only thing it does is to contribute to the individual's learning. If, though, one accuses schools for turning children into mindless workers, their claim is downright wrong.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sources:
[1]. Dictionary.com, "brainwashing"
http://www.dictionary.com...
[2]. Dictionary.com, "indoctrination"
http://www.dictionary.com...
[3]. Dictionary.com, "doctrine"
http://www.dictionary.com...
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by KostasT.1526 9 months ago
KostasT.1526
@varto11
If you would like the debate to continue, please challenge me on another debate on the same topic so that we can post the same arguments and proceed with it.
Posted by KostasT.1526 9 months ago
KostasT.1526
@PowerPikachu21
No, neither learning nor rewarding is a form of brainwashing. Brainwashing may happen through these, as the same goes for countless other factors such as watching specific television programs (mainly on politics, e.t.c.) or even being stupid enough to believe anything that someone else says without doubting and researching it. The problem is, conspiracy theorists have made the use of the term "brainwashing" very unspecific and unclear, resulting in some people calling everything "brainwashing", take my opponent who claims that school is there to brainwash children for example.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 9 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Does learning technically count as a brainwashing? MatPat said that rewarding's a form of brainwashing, along with two other forms being the torture-like one, and hypnosis.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 9 months ago
FanboyMctroll
They are doing that on purpose to get the kids ready for the workforce, where you will sit there for 8+ hours doing redundant work for some rich guy who doesn't want to do it so he gets the employees to do it for slave wages, while he gets rich off of the profits.

Welcome to the real world where I live the dream!! The dream of being a slave for 50 years till you drop dead one day after you retire, and if you don't then you can be a Walmart greeter until you die.
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