The Instigator
Dejon
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
E.BurnumIII
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

School kill creativity in our children and cause them to be as dull as a Sheep!!

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
E.BurnumIII
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/21/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,428 times Debate No: 19408
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

Dejon

Pro

The common school with black board or white, restriction heavy books to carry, loads of repetitive homework, silence! stuck to your desk, groups of 40s and more, sitting in a classroom with one elderly person dictating to them what they should learn no matter how boring it gets, children keep staring outside the window if they are sitting near one, or playing with their pen and paper drawing funny monsters.

Then they are told to mug up some history or something irrelevant to life like what some guy said once upon the time, and they are dictated to how much they can remember.

Then they are threatened to finish their homework OR punishment, they have to even take that boredom with them home.

Tied for approx an hour to a chair being subjected to listen to crap by some teacher who cannot read their face expression saying We are getting bored.

No music dancing, art or games, No fun, but just authority and punishment, No creativity just listen and do as said.

We are told that study to get a job in future study and become a sheep to run after that carrot.

A research done on young children shows that children before school or early school were very creative and consequently lost their creativity as they continued school.

Amazingly most of the worlds great people were deemed academically weak, and did not like school.

School that teach idealism and the no 1....or every one should be a doctor or an engineer!! or who is the first and who is the best...

I think all these schools should be abolished and those teached retired, maybe do something else but not teaching, since they have thought this dull way for so long that its nearly impossible to believe in new education.
E.BurnumIII

Con

Burden of Proof: Pro

Pro makes the assumption that all schools are equal. I won't deny that some school some where may kill creativity because there are so many schools in the world but to say all school's kill creativity in children is just false. Pro did not site one source to back up his claims.

"The common school with black board or white, restriction heavy books to carry, loads of repetitive homework, silence! stuck to your desk, groups of 40s and more, sitting in a classroom with one elderly person dictating to them what they should learn no matter how boring it gets, children keep staring outside the window if they are sitting near one, or playing with their pen and paper drawing funny monsters."

This is a false stereotype of schools.

"Then they are told to mug up some history or something irrelevant to life like what some guy said once upon the time, and they are dictated to how much they can remember."

How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't know history. History is very important as it helps us make better decisions for the present and future.

"Then they are threatened to finish their homework OR punishment, they have to even take that boredom with them home."

Just because something is boring doesn't mean it kills creativity. Sometimes to fully understand a topic people need extra time that cannot be provided by the school. Also, boring is subjective. To one person it could be boring, to others it could be extremely interesting.

"Tied for approx an hour to a chair being subjected to listen to crap by some teacher who cannot read their face expression saying We are getting bored."

What Pro calls crap could be considered valuable information to others.

"No music dancing, art or games, No fun, but just authority and punishment, No creativity just listen and do as said."

Most U.S. schools offer music and art as an elective class. [1]

"We are told that study to get a job in future study and become a sheep to run after that carrot."

Schools cannot force you to get a job. They can only encourage it and try to help give you the tools necessary to start your own business or be successfully employed. What is wrong with working for what you get?

"A research done on young children shows that children before school or early school were very creative and consequently lost their creativity as they continued school."

Pro provided no evidence to support this claim; therefore, this information is invalid.

"Amazingly most of the worlds great people were deemed academically weak, and did not like school."

Pro provided no evidence to support this claim; therefore, this information is invalid.

"School that teach idealism and the no 1....or every one should be a doctor or an engineer!! or who is the first and who is the best."

This is false.

"I think all these schools should be abolished and those teached retired, maybe do something else but not teaching, since they have thought this dull way for so long that its nearly impossible to believe in new education."

Education is constantly changing.



[1]http://sitemaker.umich.edu....

Debate Round No. 1
Dejon

Pro

Now as you are asking for proofs there are millions, one of them is this video of the average American since you said schools in America.

This video is a clear proof how much people are zombified to live in a certain way that they lack general information of life and planet earth and simple knowledge.
Now the debate is not about America but since you said schools in America.
This is another proof about America from the world know physicist Michai Kaku

Which says America without the genius Visa is a catastrophe, with their educational system of Guess which one is the answer A B or C, one can make wild guesses and still pass.
That is why even India does not accept the American high school as equivalent to high school in India.

Research did prove that what is boring is boring even if its useful, and children tend to escape in their fantasies with their are presented with boring stuff, and this is impotent since they do not pay attention no matter how important that boring stuff is.

Many education professional I can name many like Ed Starchar which introduced a fun way to read and faster way to finish school, it was rejected WHY?? because the education minister said who is going to pay the salary for those teachers who lose their jobs so slower is better for them since its about money.

And you said you need proof about great people who were bad at the mule schooling system, one is Albert Einstein, another is Alexandar Graham Bell,more is Dominic o Brien, Thomas Edison and many more.

Our school in fact are getting duller because now there is a computer everything is moving fast, flipping videos, changing fast processing information, while they still slow the heck of our brains with a black board and bits and pieces of boring stuff, now a days you watch a mind map show like the video I gave you up is worth hours and hours of tedious crap of what we still get in our educational system.

History can be very interesting if the teacher knew how to influence the children and make it like a beautiful story, not with the common monotone make me sleep way that most teachers do, and YES no one watches them how bad and dull they are or tells them how and what to do, they kill the creativity of our children and we just let them do it.

Debates which we have for example, its not common too, although we had it in my school back then.

Education is like petroleum they push it on us while there are lots of electrical cars and cars that work on water, but since there is still lots of Petrol left they have to finish it on the petrol polluting cars before they introduce the other invention or maybe stop suppressing them.

We were beaten in our school abused told that we are stupid, tied to a desk for hours until they molded our brains and make us just like the Elephant that was tied to the ground with a rope with a little twig nailed to the ground in his childhood he tried and tried in that young age to break off he couldnt but when he became older and stronger he has learnt not to resist even though he can now break it but now his broken psychologically like most of our children.

How many inventions we have lately ??? why??? its all about the way we are brought up, why is it so that a village in Korea or Japan has more inventions that the whole of USA or middle east?? I'm not saying they are the best, but still we are way far behind claiming democracy and westernization we import their technology because we cannot make it we can play play station smoke marijuana, maybe try to live the American life be a thug listen to crap music dye our hair green tattoo our behind, and put a nose ring but last and least care a little about our brains.

Last and least go out once of this deadly routine.

This is why we should demolish this educational system and build something new to invest our youth, instead of them being lost in addiction and porn.

Instead of them being dull, and a small time employee somewhere that if they get a job after finishing that mule education.
E.BurnumIII

Con

I understand we are not debating U.S. schools alone but Pro claimed art and music were not taught in schools. To disprove this I only needed one example of this not being true so I used U.S. schools.

I agree that U.S. public schools do a poor job of educating but that is not what we are debating. Does saying an educational system is bad at educating prove that it kills creativity? No. They are separate issues.

Pro conceded this debate:

"Many education professional I can name many like Ed Starchar which introduced a fun way to read and faster way to finish school, it was rejected WHY?? because the education minister said who is going to pay the salary for those teachers who lose their jobs so slower is better for them since its about money."

For one thing, this statement makes no sense. Nobody would have to pay unemployed teachers' salaries because they would be unemployed. If they find another job, that employer would then pay the salary. Secondly, this is not proof against school itself but rather against people running the schools. Ed Starchar has plan that could possibly be better for schools which means you are still arguing for schools, just better ones.

"And you said you need proof about great people who were bad at the mule schooling system, one is Albert Einstein, another is Alexandar Graham Bell,more is Dominic o Brien, Thomas Edison and many more."

Pro listed people who attended school and still went on to do many creative things in their lives. Sure, they may not have been successful in school but their creativity was definitly not killed by school.

Rebuttal

"Now as you are asking for proofs there are millions, one of them is this video of the average American since you said schools in America."

All I said is that schools in the U.S. teach art and music because you claimed schools do not teach those subjects. The video is irrelevant to this debate as it only proves some people are in the U.S. are ignorant. This does not mean they are not creative. Also, those people do not represent average "Americans."

"Which says America without the genius Visa is a catastrophe, with their educational system of Guess which one is the answer A B or C, one can make wild guesses and still pass.
That is why even India does not accept the American high school as equivalent to high school in India."

Irrelevant

"Research did prove that what is boring is boring even if its useful, and children tend to escape in their fantasies with their are presented with boring stuff, and this is impotent since they do not pay attention no matter how important that boring stuff is."

I have already explained that boring is subjective. To one person something may be boring but to someone else it could be the most interesting thing. If someone like me, who enjoys learning about economics, takes an economics class, most likely they will enjoy it. If someone who is bored by economics takes an economics class, they will most likely be bored. This is not the fault of the school.

"Our school in fact are getting duller because now there is a computer everything is moving fast, flipping videos, changing fast processing information, while they still slow the heck of our brains with a black board and bits and pieces of boring stuff, now a days you watch a mind map show like the video I gave you up is worth hours and hours of tedious crap of what we still get in our educational system."

It is absurd to claim school is getting duller because of computers and videos.

"History can be very interesting if the teacher knew how to influence the children and make it like a beautiful story, not with the common monotone make me sleep way that most teachers do, and YES no one watches them how bad and dull they are or tells them how and what to do, they kill the creativity of our children and we just let them do it."

This is the fault of bad teachers; not schools.

"Debates which we have for example, its not common too, although we had it in my school back then."

Debates are common as most schools have debate teams.

"Education is like petroleum they push it on us while there are lots of electrical cars and cars that work on water, but since there is still lots of Petrol left they have to finish it on the petrol polluting cars before they introduce the other invention or maybe stop suppressing them."

This is a terrible analogy that makes no sense. Education is not like petroleum at all.

"We were beaten in our school abused told that we are stupid, tied to a desk for hours until they molded our brains and make us just like the Elephant that was tied to the ground with a rope with a little twig nailed to the ground in his childhood he tried and tried in that young age to break off he couldnt but when he became older and stronger he has learnt not to resist even though he can now break it but now his broken psychologically like most of our children."

It is sad that you went through this in school but that is a reflection of individuals and not the schools themselves. If this happened in a U.S. school, the teacher would be fired and likely punished by law. Again, I understand the debate is not only about the U.S. but it only takes one example to disprove your case against all schools.

How many inventions we have lately ??? why??? its all about the way we are brought up, why is it so that a village in Korea or Japan has more inventions that the whole of USA or middle east?? I'm not saying they are the best, but still we are way far behind claiming democracy and westernization we import their technology because we cannot make it we can play play station smoke marijuana, maybe try to live the American life be a thug listen to crap music dye our hair green tattoo our behind, and put a nose ring but last and least care a little about our brains.

There have been more inventions in the U.S. since 1950 than any other country.[2] I will not even respond to the rest of your statement because it is just ignorance.

"This is why we should demolish this educational system and build something new to invest our youth, instead of them being lost in addiction and porn."

More nonsense.

"Instead of them being dull, and a small time employee somewhere that if they get a job after finishing that mule education."

I have no clue what pro was trying to say here.







[2]http://www.krysstal.com...























Debate Round No. 2
Dejon

Pro

Ed stratchar gave that idea reading genius in US schools, which means a western country, which means if they were to compress for example a 3 years course or make high school less by 50% time, it means they do not need so many teachers as they needed for 100% of the time which was set before, this means teachers become unemployed and in a western country you know the rules, you cant just throw a person out, for example bring that new teaching system and implement it, yes you do not need so much work force like before you can get rid lets say of 50% of staff, but there is something called employment rights, which means if you fire them you still have to pay for them until they find a new job and get into court etc.

And for the part that says yes many people went to school still did creative things, Yes Einstine went to school but still did creative things. Most of educational psychologist if not all say that today teaching system and the yesterdays one which is quite the same, is futile, if you say no proof google it type why school kills creativity...
well check this video

The video about the US is true sadly, and yes ignorance and creativity support each other, how can you be creative at one thing if your hard disk is empty?? You mean think of nothing and bring about something creative??

You should see this video above it can tell you how much schools are wasting our time, maybe its a place where we keep children away to get time with our partner :-).

The Genius Visa is very relevant, this proves that in America the school are not good enough to bring about smart people as smart as the ones they get from India and China etc, this video also says that if you stop this Visa America will suffer, I can give you an example majority of Swedish doctors are not so good, if they do not get doctors from Poland Hungarian,India, etc, it would be a catastrophe Yes Swedish medicine universities are not as good as others in India or other, but still Education system is still useless it needs to be sharpened or replaced.

Picasso said all children are born artistic and creative but the most important if they can retain this creativity when they grow up.

We get educated our of creativity in today's schools, we are always told where we do wrong and not where we do right the testing system cause worry and depression in children, plus they bring about hate towards schools, children cry not wanting to go to school a place where your every action is watched and judged if you are stupid or a good sheep that follows.

Now what I said about boring I meant the way its represented economics can be very interesting if the teacher is a professional.

Boring is boring to most people, if 90% of the class is sleeping or day dreaming what is the use of the class?? imagine you go to a doctor and he says I have a medicine that can heal only ten % of your disease is that useful?

Public education is a money making machine, in the USA they begin saving for college from childhood, Degrees judge who you are, in many country you are seens as a certificate not as a human or your name Doctor engineer professor, you are tagged, in fact if you want to get married now adays partner parents always ask what are you tagged now who you are as a person you have a certificate WOW you dont you are an ignorant, I worked in places without education back then while people with big certificate needed my help in situation that schools did not teach them.

School are not actually getting duller its the world which is moving faster, its for example you meet a girl at party and you get interested and think she is good looking then you meet her friend who is smarter and better looking then you meet her other friend and see she is better at dance and better looking even much smarter and another and another,
it does not mean that the first girl is turning uglier but it the law of contrast, like two buckets of water one is hot and one is cold you put bot your feet in them and then put your leg in luke warm water, the one which was in cold fine the luke warn hot, etc...So schools not moving forward with the information technology it will look duller and duller and die which it is supposed to be.

You see one youtube video about some subject, in this video there is so much colours, fun, information 3d, etc sounds, and I'm sitting comfortably on my couch relaxed not being judged and shooshed SHHHHH all the time pinned on the desk, taking permission to express your views or the teacher must finish his book the way he wants lecture it monotone, just get it done makes a lot of difference right, makes a different if a teacher smacks your shoulder and makes negative remarks about you and if your dad punches your shoulder with greater force but says something positive about you jokingly, This means the atmosphere its self means a lot.

Now the part where you said where its the teachers fault not the school can sound right, but the school and the educational system if they cared enough they would hire the best teachers and find the best way that they understand.

That is good that in your schools there are debates, in mine there was, but that still does not change the fact that 8 hours tied into a desk looking at a black board or white, is not boring and kills creativity.

When I said education is like petroleum I did not mean it literally, I meant in a way that no matter how many ecological cars and energy saving machines are invented they are suppressed or kept aside until those who are in control milk the world of money selling Petrol.

same thing for education the education ministry knows very well there are new system more fun faster more effective makes the child understand much more and faster, but they want to keep their money making system yes 4 years Harvard or Oxford what ever the student takes a loan in Sweden like 200 grand USD to study something and end up paying all his life until retirement and even more, and of course dont forget the 4 LONG LONG years.

What is more funny they took us to a computer course for 3 months and paid money that in year 98, in Lebanon to study paint brush in installment and some word and excel basic windows, while my young brother sat on my computer and played for a weeks time or less and mastered those subject and even learnt more.

About abuse in school in some countries its physical and mental, but in western countries it can be more mental than physical and that hurts more, the school teaches idealism who is first on the list who is to be mobbed and who is the geek.
How understood or followed their way is smart who founded it boring and could not understand is stupid.

In the 1950s?? Who invented what?? in the USA?? and who are they where they come from?
have you seen the movie Ben Carson, or Patch Adams, you will change your mind about schooling, its creative individuals who are gifted who go against the system and improvise do great things not the sheep's that school bring about, for example like the University chief in Patch adams is one of those sheep's.

Demolish today's study system does not mean air strike it, but put it back and start being parallel with the world of information technology.

At the end where you have no Idea I think people with better schooling would have better idea, than those who study HARD not smart and end up being a product of some collage employed somewhere to pay the bills.

And maybe they would start to see wisdom in others and not just criticize.

;-)
E.BurnumIII

Con

Conclusion

To say that school kills creativity is equivalent to saying restaurants make people sick. Obviously this is not true. If someone gets sick it is because something is wrong with the food cooked inside the restaurant.

Pro has argued that we need to do away with schools. This is easily refuted by looking at the restaurant analogy. If someone got sick at a restaurant it would be absurd to do away with restaurants when the problem is with the individuals who work in the restaurant and not the restaurant itself.

Pro has also argued that schools need to improve. This only proves my point that schools are not inherently bad. Schools can be good depending on the individuals and the educational system within the school.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RandomName 5 years ago
RandomName
I don't know about you, but sheep are pretty awsome.
Posted by E.BurnumIII 5 years ago
E.BurnumIII
Dejon, you continue to miss the point. The point is that school only does what the people working within the school do. School is not inherently good or bad because it is an inanimate object. If a house is messy you wouldn't blame the house, you would blame the the people in the house.
Posted by Dejon 5 years ago
Dejon
I just hope you do not have multiple accounts!!
Second Yeah since we still have those schools running in the world they will win until the world realizes how useless they are and that takes time.
Posted by Dejon 5 years ago
Dejon
You might have learnt to read and write in School, when Britain colonized India for decades and stole all their money and killed them, Some Indians learnt how to read and write English too.
Does that mean the colonization was positive??

School is doing the same thing killing creativity taking lots of money and time, and Yes children do learn to read and write but at the end research shows the more schooling the less creativity the more the limitation, I do not need to provide you with proofs read more books, Browse the internet.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
If I had not gone to school and someone had asked me, "Hey, do you know how to write a formal essay in MLA format?", I probably would have said, "What the hell are you talking about?"
Posted by Dejon 5 years ago
Dejon
The restaurant things is not sensible, Schools are something that takes more than 10 years of your life, its not food.
Most schools take our time and money, and limit our mind.

Nearly all Educational psychologist agree that now adays schools are futile and are a money making machines.

So here I do not try to classify which is which if some is better than other.

There are new educational systems which are yet to be adopted and TRUST ME!! they are nothing like what schools we have or ever had.

And of course fruitful trees are flung with stones, new Ideas come like a poison on the ignorant mind,

If you remember this saying heavier than air flying machine?? are impossible, or Who wants to talk on a telephone it has many shortcomings and its worthless...These are some people who were supposed to be important in that time and rejected civilization like its a poison...Now Ibrunium.III is one of them who just wants to win a debate online without trying genuinely to see the truth.

People who do not understand and are zombified by schools and limited cannot see further than their nose tip.
Posted by Mr.Infidel 5 years ago
Mr.Infidel
==RFD==

The burden of proof was on PRO to prove two thinks: (1) school kills creativity in our children and (2) Schools causes hem to be as dull as sheep.

While this was an interesting debate, PRO simply did not deliver his burden of proof. I like the restaurant analogy that CON brought up: Just because a restraunt makes someone sick, does not mean we should do away with ALL restaurants. Moreover, PRO conceded that schools can (and should) be improved.

I would have loved to have seen more sources from PRO to back up his claim.

==To be continued.==
Posted by SquadSix 5 years ago
SquadSix
Well I am not a teacher but would like to be one... I agree with you saying today's schools are pretty bad but some are really good. I say the rural areas are better than big cities because you would know everyone and only have small quarrels with certain people. I go to a small school with 500 or less people. I hope burnum hasn't forgotten about this.
Posted by Dejon 5 years ago
Dejon
I just hope you guys are not school teachers and get very offended that you were subjected to go extra years to become teachers...Schools are important but not the ones we have now!!
Posted by SquadSix 5 years ago
SquadSix
LET'S GO E. BURNUMIII, show Dejon school is important, hopefully we share opinions. Take Dejon down.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
DejonE.BurnumIIITied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had more logic in his arguments and were more convincing than pro's
Vote Placed by Mr.Infidel 5 years ago
Mr.Infidel
DejonE.BurnumIIITied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO had the burden of proof, adnd did not deliver. I will analyse the debate in the comment section.