The Instigator
omar816
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

School text books are unneccassary and should be replaced with something more beneficial.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,320 times Debate No: 28711
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

omar816

Pro

Teachers are killing students witht the text book method, and they should be removed from student cirriculum.

Round 1 = agree
imabench

Con

I accept this debate and will argue that teachers are not killing students with text books, and that textbooks are necessary and should stay in the student curriculum.

First round was acceptance only, so you may state your case
Debate Round No. 1
omar816

Pro

Its a proven fact that students don't learn as comprehensivly from text books in this day and age as they use to. Keeping this in mind, textbooks leave only minimal examples of the learning material and they tell you to do the rest based on this knowledge.

More times than not, there is a twist. They give you some of the required basics and ask you questions that get much harder from then on. The textbook won't tell you how to expand this knowledge but only test you and you will get an answer to check if you were right.

What students really need is a more interactive and visual sense of education. Textbooks are not right for that.

What students need is a solutions manual to the hardest of questions where it explains all the neccassary steps to achieve your solution. Tutors everywhere know that textbooks over complicate things and actually, so do most teachers, which is why they don't rely soloely on textbooks. This means there is much room for improvment.

Let's conclude, Tutors don't like textbook, Teacher's aren't too fond of them and students would be better off learning in a more interactive visual way which has been proven many times to be more beneficial than texbooks.
imabench

Con

"Its a proven fact that students don't learn as comprehensivly from text books in this day and age as they use to."

I disagree. In fact there is a lot of evidence suggesting that textbooks are the best way to teach course material since they literally provide guidance of what to teach, how to teach it, and gives examples for students to help learn the concept. The books are written by the most experienced people in the field of work the book is geared towards as well so textbooks are still a great tool to learn new material from. Therefore, even if the pro's unsupported claim that learning is down from the past, it can still be concluded that the learning is still at pretty high levels.

http://www.coursecrafters.com...

"textbooks leave only minimal examples of the learning material and they tell you to do the rest based on this knowledge."

And if you still have problems, thats what the teacher is for. So whats the problem here?

"What students really need is a more interactive and visual sense of education. Textbooks are not right for that"

Those are just your own opinions though. There are studies that show that students still prefer textbooks over anything else
http://bevswiki.pbworks.com... (Jump to Conclusion)
http://dl.acm.org...

"Let's conclude, Tutors don't like textbook"

Unsubstantiated opinion

"Teacher's aren't too fond of them"

Thats just false, teachers who are just starting out teaching rely almost entirely on textbooks to teach a class.
http://www.teachervision.fen.com...

"students would be better off learning in a more interactive visual way"

You havent specified what a 'more visual way' even means....

"which has been proven many times to be more beneficial than texbooks."

Yet youve given no sources implying that such a bold claim is even remotely true......

1000 characters.



Debate Round No. 2
omar816

Pro

After revieweing the source you listed, turns out that they are the cerators of educational learning material and obviously they are going to make claims in the favor of their products.

I could provide similar souces from a variety of websites like:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu...

"Its a proven fact that students don't learn as comprehensivly from text books in this day and age as they use to."

You disagree? If you actually think that someone is going to learn much more efficiently with boring text in a book that only gives you a feel for what is expected for the test or assignments I can't say you know what you're saying. Technology has advanced far beyond what we expected it to and thaat has helped people in all different fields. If we could apply such drastic technologies over what problamatic procedures we have currently, productivity is guranteed to increase.

A more visual interactive teaching process instead of solving questions based on text information, we should instead be shown everything we'll be learning with computer software and everyone can have visual and interactive learning opportunities which has been proven to be more beneficial for students willing to learn.

I am currently in Gr.12 so I've experienced everything first hand and truth be told, my marks have been much better when its visual and interactive. Your given source is the supplier of our learning materials and we don't want them to be the ones who benefit from student education. Students should be the ones benefitting from student education.

Teachers don't have to help you if you understand better and thats why with computer software, you would learn more easy.

One more thing, you're link also states textbook weaknesses and ways to overcome them, instead overcoming the problem, you should find a mroe efficient way entirly. This is a way to cover up flaws and with a better system, we could remove those flaws entirly.
imabench

Con

"After revieweing the source you listed, turns out that they are the cerators of educational learning material and obviously they are going to make claims in the favor of their products."

These are all independent studies that arent in any way linked to those who cerate school textbooks, try again. Also it doesnt help to criticize my sources when the only sources you ever give are just people speaking their own opinion....

"If you actually think that someone is going to learn much more efficiently with boring text in a book.... I can't say you know what you're saying."

So just because I disagree with you, that must mean that I dont know what im talking about?

Spectacular conduct pro...

"we should instead be shown everything we'll be learning with computer software and everyone can have visual and interactive learning opportunities....."

So your alternative to reading boring text in cheap textbooks is to have students read the same kind of boring text on computers and expensive gadgets? Schools are already under a massive budget crunch and can barely afford to give students textbooks made 9 years ago, how the hell are they supposed to afford giving every student their own computer to do the exact same thing a textbook would give them?

"I am currently in Gr.12 so I've experienced everything first hand and truth be told, my marks have been much better when its visual and interactive"

Opinions =/= Definite facts pro....

"Your given source is the supplier of our learning materials and we don't want them to be the ones who benefit from student education"

Saying the same false statement over and over also doesnt make it true pro....

"you're link also states textbook weaknesses and ways to overcome them, instead overcoming the problem, you should find a mroe efficient way entirly"

And how exactly is it 'efficient' to spend money that schools dont have to avoid having a problem that can be easily fixed?

http://www.ehow.com...;
Debate Round No. 3
omar816

Pro

These are all independent studies that arent in any way linked to those who cerate school textbooks?

After reviewing your sources wesite which you said weren't in anyway related to the textbook franchise to give biased opinions. Turns out that one of their main goals is in the science textbook business and one of there top team meamers "Dr. Joanne C. Wachter" has extensive experience writing textbooks for 25 years.

http://www.coursecrafters.com...;

Sounds like textbook related to me?

...Sorry to sound repugnant, I didn't mean to say you didn't know what you were talking about.

I was trying to emphasize the fact that more visual and mental interaction involving simulations was more efficient than textbooks.

So your alternative to reading boring text in cheap textbooks is to have students read the same kind of boring text on computers and expensive gadgets?

No.
Instead of boring text. There are sets of tutorials and mathematic extraction methods that can be easily transferred on to USB sticks so everything learnt at school can be just as effective as home. For example, instead of the traditional textbook method where everything is taught in an out of date manner.

We have the technology to finally update that style into something more productive.

When I say extraction methods, I mean you get a sin or cos graph and you are told straight away of what you get if you find the deravitive, and then the second and also third deravitive. What happens when they equal zer, and finally what happens after they equal a real number. We could then apply this into many problem solving scenario in new ways we've never done before.

Having to take the textbook around everywhere will also be in the past.

Lastly, the same software can be used for the entire board which increases the budget for this software by a minimum of 8 times thereby increasing chances drastically. This rules out expense therefore everyone can enjoy the future together without worry.

Thanks Vote Pro!
imabench

Con

The link you gave that allegedly disproves just one of my sources doesnt even work.... And as far as I can see you only have issues with one of the five different sources ive provided....

"I was trying to emphasize the fact that more visual and mental interaction involving simulations was more efficient than textbooks."

Based on what evidence though? You havent provided a single citation or source that even suggests that the 'fact' that youre wonder-software is more efficient than textbooks, you just keep saying that its true over and over without giving any actual evidence...

"Instead of boring text. There are sets of tutorials and mathematic extraction methods that can be easily transferred on to USB sticks so everything learnt at school can be just as effective as home."

So on top of the ton of cash its going to take to even get these magical computers and programs into schools, now schools are going to give all students USB's to transfer whatever work they have done at school to take home, and im guessing now those families are also going to have to pay out of their own pocket for the same expensive as hell software.....

And this makes the whole thing easier how again?

"We have the technology to finally update that style into something more productive."

But we clearly dont have the funding, and you have yet to provide an argument for how we would get around that since schools can barely afford to have textbooks in the first place...

"Having to take the textbook around everywhere will also be in the past."

An easier solution would be to have a set for students to have at home and a class set for them to use at school... Not to spend a sh*tload of money that nobody has on a computer software system that has no evidence suggesting it would even be more efficient then textbooks to begin with.

Extend arguments about how beginning teachers still rely heavily on textbooks to teach classes.

Vote con
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
Omar, I agree with you that schools are not taking advantage of every possible opportunity to use technology to their advantage, but besides being convenient and cost-effective, the ability to learn information from textbooks is a helpful skill if you're aiming for a professional career.

Do you realize that you did not present any sources for your argument that the current system is broken besides your own opinion? Do you realize you provided very little in terms of specifics when discussion your proposed solution? To successfully argue for change, you need those.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
omar816imabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: hi guys i like pie
Vote Placed by FREEDO 4 years ago
FREEDO
omar816imabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro couldn't hold up on their facts. Pro was basically just naming off baseless opinions and not explaining or sufficiently sourcing any of them.
Vote Placed by Ike-Jin-Park 4 years ago
Ike-Jin-Park
omar816imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: I have to admit that this topic was a tough topic for Pro since school textbooks are already being so widely used. During the entire debate, I felt like alternatives that Pro suggested were either the same thing as textbooks or something that is not mutually exclusive with textbooks. Students can always learn with textbooks and if they want more visual aids, they can always go on internet and do exercises after school or ask a teacher like Pro suggested. So that does not explain why textbooks should be replaced. In this debate, I think Pro also had to show what textbooks would be replaced with and that was failed. Pro also failed his primary BOP which is to show textbooks are unncessary. There are visual aids on paper textbooks as well. And as Pro said, textbook companies like Holt, Winston and Rinehart is in fact improving by making online textbooks with more visual aids. We also need to keep in mind there are different types of learners. I'm prefer words. I learn better with words.