The Instigator
Rockylightning
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
carman16
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points

Schools Should Have The Option To Use Corporal Punishment

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
Rockylightning
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2010 Category: Education
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,511 times Debate No: 11793
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (9)

 

Rockylightning

Con

I will let my opponent start out with arguments and definitions. Therefore my opponent is the affirmative and I am the negative. Please post.
carman16

Pro

I'd like to thank the people voting and rockylightning for making this debate possible. First i'd like to start out with a definition.

"Corporal punishment is the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming a wrongdoer, or to deter attitudes or behaviour deemed unacceptable. The term usually refers to methodically striking the offender with an implement, whether in judicial, domestic, or educational settings."

Next ill post a practical example. Lets say a teacher is teaching a class. A student in the class talks out of turn. He is given a WARNING, and then he does it again and is given another WARNING, now, he talks out of turn again, he is called up to the front (or after school, at the teachers discretion) and the teacher would use a ruler to hit the students palms. There, end of story! This is the only way to speak to children these days because if they were punished orally or given detention the student would be more likely to repeat that mistake again.

Now, i will bring some evidence to support my arguments. An editor from childdisciplinewithlove.com states "[Corporal Punishment] That's the only language children understand, and they understand it instantaneously.That's how you can prevent children from spoiling.
I'm good and successful today because my parents hit me when I did something wrong. That's why I'm doing well in life. I suffered no harm from my parents having beaten me.
It has deterrent effect as well. If you beat one child in front of other children, not only that child learns to behave, others also learn a lesson to behave.
Children try and test your limits. Show them some physical punishment so that they know it very clearly that each mistake of theirs will attract some physical punishment.
•It is only fear which restrains children from misbehaving. Show the something to be afraid of and they will behave.
Corporal punishment has instantaneous effect. Children obey and behave absolutely right when punished.
Pampering and talking to them lovingly spoils them.
There is no point in talking to them regarding solving any of their behavior problem because they are young and have no understanding of the worldly wisdom. So it's better not to waste time on taching them through talking. Just show them the fear of doing something wrong and they will do everything right.
History of corporal punishment suggests that it has taught children to behave over last so many ages."

If you look at his last points it states that not only the child being faced with the punishment will learn but other children in the classroom will learn.

Thank You.
Debate Round No. 1
Rockylightning

Con

Definition: No problems there.

\\\Next ill post a practical example. Lets say a teacher is teaching a class. A student in the class talks out of turn. He is given a WARNING, and then he does it again and is given another WARNING, now, he talks out of turn again, he is called up to the front (or after school, at the teachers discretion) and the teacher would use a ruler to hit the students palms. There, end of story! This is the only way to speak to children these days because if they were punished orally or given detention the student would be more likely to repeat that mistake again.///

You have not stated any evidence that this is the only way to speak to children. Because you have no evidence I will provide it. Wife beating is no longer acceptable, but in 23 states it is legal for school teachers and officials to spank and paddle kids, a form of corporal punishment. "When a girl is spanked by her father or paddled by a male school teacher, she is being trained to submit," says Jordan Riak, a retired school teacher and the executive director of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education, a California-based nonprofit group dedicated to getting corporal punishment banned in U.S. schools. "When a school district permits teachers to paddle girls, it is setting those girls up to be victims of future male authority figures, whether it be a boyfriend, husband or employer," Riak claims.

\\\That's the only language children understand, and they understand it instantaneously.That's how you can prevent children from spoiling.///
There is the assertion, now where is the reasoning and evidence?

\\\I'm good and successful today because my parents hit me when I did something wrong. That's why I'm doing well in life. I suffered no harm from my parents having beaten me.///

Good and successful is from a point of view, and you have no clear evidence that because your parents hit you it is why you are successful. You may have not suffered any harm but you dont know about other kids who have different minds, a personal experience in this case is irrelevant. Finally, this debate is about schools, not your family.

\\\It is only fear which restrains children from misbehaving. Show the something to be afraid of and they will behave.
Corporal punishment has instantaneous effect. Children obey and behave absolutely right when punished.///

It has been proven, even in government, that it is wrong to rule with an iron fist. You should rule with reasoning, such as "If you disrupt the class again you will be given after school detention on the minimum day" Or "You will have extra homework" definitely not saying "if you don't shut your trap you're gonna get a beatin'!" Because after a while, kids get immune to the pain.

\\\Pampering and talking to them lovingly spoils them.///
You don't pamper and spoil them if they did something wrong!

\\\History of corporal punishment suggests that it has taught children to behave over last so many ages///
I agree! Golden eras such as the Nazi rule of Germany, where the kids in the Hitler youth were shot with automatic rifles if they deserted, that kept them faithful to Hitler! But seriously it has not helped...

==Points==

I. Morally wrong
Now, in 2010, physical punishment is considered too severe for serial killers, murderers, criminals of all kinds and ages, including juvenile delinquents, too demeaning for soldiers, sailors, servants and spouses. But it remains legal and acceptable for children who are innocent of any crime!
There are laws preventing child abuse, therefore my opponent's case is not only immoral, but illegal too.

There are no reliable statistics on the extent of crime a hundred or a hundred and fifty years ago. From all reports, however, crime in the U.S. was extensive, especially violent crime and crimes among the young. The good citizens of 19th century America were also alarmed. They looked back to the good old days of simple rural life, before the growth of the cities. The crowded and crime-ridden Eastern cities were contrasted unfavorably with the "wide open spaces" of the West -- the West, that is, of Jesse James and Billy the Kid!
Discipline in the one room schoolhouses was violent. Often the teacher engaged in a bare knuckle fight with the biggest student as a warning to the others of what would happen to them if they provoked his wrath. Horace Mann, the Father of American education, fulminated against the number of floggings per day, sometimes more than the number of scholars. Most of our great grandparents were satisfied with a fourth grade education and eighth grade was the end for all but five percent. The lawless mountain men of the Old West were recruited from the 14-year olds who high tailed it after one thrashing too many. Bands of outlaws stole horses, and plagued the defenseless. Public hangings and Iynchings were commonplace while pickpockets worked the crowds. Only the militia and the sheriff's posse maintained any semblance of order. I do not call this productive.

II. Evidence Against
Adrenalin output increases sharply during fear, anger and physical punishment. When this is prolonged or often repeated, the endocrine balance fails to return to baseline. The victim becomes easily angered and prone to poor impulse control and spontaneous violent outbursts.
Car crashes caused by drunk driving are increased by a hidden factor. Bottled up anger, when combined with alcohol is the largest cause of the highway death toll which comes to 25,000 deaths every year, or one every 20 minutes. An investigation by Donald C. Pelz of the Institute for Social Research at the University of Michigan in 1973 led to his finding that: "For the young male, anger toward the adult world is likely to find vent in dangerous driving ... Hostility tends to multiply with their attitude toward the educational system ... Those who had rejected the school system ... are likely to reject the highway system. " In fact he concluded that abiding anger was even more dangerous than drinking per se, but that the combination was the most deadly. The insult to high school boys of an embarrassing paddling raises the adrenaline level, which if repeated often enough stays high all the time. They are the timebombs whose battlefield casualties litter the roads and intersections of our country. A survey of 3,900 people in Houston as to what effect school corporal punishment had on their lives found that 76 percent of them said the effects had been negative and that they continued to resent what happened to them. That leaves about a fourth of them who were able to shrug it off and a mere handful who felt grateful for the timely punishment that "saved me from a life of crime." Thus, the one who testifies that "I was paddled when I was a kid and I turned out okay," must be labelled a survivor and congratulated on the strength of character that enabled him to make a life in spite of early mistreatment.
carman16

Pro

First Of I would like to state a major flaw in my opponent(s) arguments, THEY ARE PLAGIARIZED.
75% of his points can be found here: http://www.naturalchild.org... This is poor sportsmanship but I would still like to continue. Repeatedly, my opponent has dressed his arguments by using slashes and back slashes. That is not the point of the matter right now but it just goes to show how he wants to "cover up" his "MISTAKE"
Now on to some refutes, my opponent has repeatedly stated that I have no evidence, if he had read my argument closely you would be able to see that I am quoting actual PEOPLE! He also made a ridiculous refute by comparing this to the age of Hitler? Look, Hitler was different, he was a crazy radical that trained kids to kill the Jews, but this doesn't count as corporal punishment, ITS REFERRED TO AS WAR!
Now my opponent states:

"It has been prove, even in government, that it is wrong to rule with an iron fist. You should rule with reasoning, such as "If you disrupt the class again you will be given after school detention on the minimum day" Or "You will have extra homework" definitely not saying "if you don't shut your trap you're gonna get a beatin'!" Because after a while, kids get immune to the pain."

Like I have stated before, if kids are given a punishment that they will probably forget within the week it is most likely they will repeat that mistake. Next, he also states "Kids become immune to pain" that is a completely blind statement, and is obviously very opinionated.
Lastly, I would like to have my opponent clarify the following:

\\\I'm good and successful today because my parents hit me when I did something wrong. That's why I'm doing well in life. I suffered no harm from my parents having beaten me.///

Refute: Good and successful is from a point of view, and you have no clear evidence that because your parents hit you it is why you are successful. You may have not suffered any harm but you don't know about other kids who have different minds, a personal experience in this case is irrelevant. Finally, this debate is about schools, not your family.

I would like to state, YET AGAIN, this is an editor from childdisciplinewithlove.org who is using his experiences IN SCHOOL to show how he became a better person. This is clear evidence supporting my arguments.

For my closing statement I will go back to my opponents introduction. I have not yet once stated paddling as a form of corporal punishment, OR a male teacher hitting a girl. Since the motion has the word, CHOOSE, they are at full discretion to modify and change their policies. A child will learn, that they will not face pain if they are good, therefore making them better people late on in life. I have some statistics to prove this statement:

One Kentucky study noted, "Out-of-school suspension and expulsion interrupt students' educational progress and remove students from school at a time when they may most need stability and guidance in their lives. Repeated out-of-school suspensions may make it impossible for students to keep up with the curriculum, complete class assignments, and advance from one grade to another." David Richart et al., "Unintended Consequences: The Impact of 'Zero Tolerance' and Other Exclusionary Policies on Kentucky Students", report prepared by the National Institute on Children, Youth & Families at Spalding University in Louisville, KY; the Children's Law Center in Covington, KY; and the Youth Law Center in Washington, D.C.

Thank You, I am carman16 on the motion that schools should have the option to use corporal punishment.
Debate Round No. 2
Rockylightning

Con

My opponent is a hypocrite, around the same amount of his arguments are PLAGARIZED also.

\\\First Of I would like to state a major flaw in my opponent(s) arguments, THEY ARE PLAGIARIZED.
75% of his points can be found here: http://www.naturalchild.org...... This is poor sportsmanship but I would still like to continue.///
They aren't plagiarized unless I do not state my source and I am going to state all my sources at the end of my rebuttal. I do not know if my opponent knows the definition of plagiarism but this is not what it is.

\\\Repeatedly, my opponent has dressed his arguments by using slashes and back slashes. That is not the point of the matter right now but it just goes to show how he wants to "cover up" his "MISTAKE"///

My god, you really are new... Those are pointing out what you said, and it helps organize my refutations, they stand out more than quotation marks, many debater on this site use them.

\\\Look, Hitler was different, he was a crazy radical that trained kids to kill the Jews, but this doesn't count as corporal punishment, ITS REFERRED TO AS WAR!///

You obviously did not read my argument carefully, I was using the Hitler Youth as an example, which there in the Hitler youth was, for a crime you were punished with bullets in your face. Crimes would include desertion, insubordination (back talk) and pretty much anything you can be given detention in school.

\\\Like I have stated before, if kids are given a punishment that they will probably forget within the week it is most likely they will repeat that mistake.///

If you have been beaten in your life by a parent you do not forget. It is a fearful memory that is full of pain, I am sure you would not forget this very quickly.

\\\Next, he also states "Kids become immune to pain" that is a completely blind statement, and is obviously very opinionated.///

Funny coming from someone who brought up personal experience as a point. This is not blind, if you are beaten repeatedly over the course of your childhood, you learn to take the punishment, as many kids have with other things.

\\\I would like to state, YET AGAIN, this is an editor from childdisciplinewithlove.org who is using his experiences IN SCHOOL to show how he became a better person.///

Ironic, an opinionated argument coming from the accuser of opinionated arguments. Personal experiences should not be used as evidence. Statistics should be used as evidence.

\\\Out-of-school suspension and expulsion interrupt students' educational progress and remove students from school at a time when they may most need stability and guidance in their lives. Repeated out-of-school suspensions may make it impossible for students to keep up with the curriculum, complete class assignments, and advance from one grade to another.///

Keyword "MAY" this MAY make it impossible to keep up with assignments? These are not statistics, this is an assertion, clearly my opponent cannot even follow the basic A.R.E. format and cannot identify statistics. I have refuted all of your assertions, now where is your reasoning and evidence?

\\\Thank You, I am carman16 on the motion that schools should have the option to use corporal punishment.///
yes you are

The motion is negated. My points still stand. This is why the Negative has won this debate

===VOTE-CON===
carman16

Pro

My arguments are not plagiarized, they are quoted BIG DIFFERENCE. I specifically quoted and gave sources while you simply copy pasted and didn't even give an immediate source or use quotes.

=Hitler=
I think that is unfair to compare Hitler to a teacher. Simple as that.

--If you have been beaten in your life by a parent you do not forget. It is a fearful memory that is full of pain, I am sure you would not forget this very quickly.--

Look, there are alot of things in life you don't, remember when you had to learn how to swim? If you get this memory, you will never repeat this mistake again and it will teach you a lesson to.

=Blind Statements=

I use an actual man that has grown up with corporal punishment, you state something completely out of the blue with nothing to support it with.

The site I state also has statistics as well as REAL people talking about their experiences if you looked closely.

=Suspensions=

Oh My Gosh, REASONING! Look, if your taken out of school will you learn? No. If your punished right there and right in the middle of class the learning environment only gets disrupted for a couple minutes at most!

=Refuting my closing statement=
Don't be stupid.

I have refuted all of CONS points and have supported my arguments accordingly.

====VOTE PRO====
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Interesting how Pro accuses Con of Plagiarizing and provides a dead link saying that Con's argument can be found there. The voting period is closed but I would give Con the Conduct points. All other categories would be tied.
Posted by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
Wow, I think Pro made an account just for himself, and then vote bombed. PATHETIC!
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
thats cause u lost epically.
Posted by carman16 6 years ago
carman16
YOU ALL ARE STUPID MOTHER FUC.KING VOTE BOMBERs
GO TO HELL BLIND PRICKS!
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
;D hehehe
Posted by carman16 6 years ago
carman16
were not in debate, you should see how he insults me when were not debating lol
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
-.- please note that my opponent committed an ad-hominem falacy...
Posted by carman16 6 years ago
carman16
your so stupid, if you actuall payed attention during that HTML class we took, you should add .HTML at the end of link..
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
If you wouldn't mind clicking on the link carman provided goes no where... thats what I call a bad source!
Posted by Kinesis 6 years ago
Kinesis
Incidentally --> http://www.debate.org...
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