The Instigator
icebeartheawesome
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
JordanCJKM
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Schools Should Segregate by Race

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
JordanCJKM
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/1/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 703 times Debate No: 105255
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

icebeartheawesome

Pro

Hello. I am here to state my opinion that schools ought to segregate based on gender and race. Don't you see a difference between races, intelectually and physically, as well as how boys and girls have too much romantic drama between them. That is why we need to segregate by race and gender. However, n alternative is to segregate by IQ and whatever gender you currently identify as. If your sexual identification or IQ drops/increases, you will be moved to work in a different class environment and intelectual stimulation level.
JordanCJKM

Con

Before I begin talking about my views on this issue, I would like to say that this topic you brought up is an issue debated throughout decades until today. I am lucky enough to take this humble opportunity to show my understanding and opinions regarding this topic, as well as to give viewers and the general audience more in-depth insights.

According to the Oxford dictionary, there are 5 main definitions of Education :

  1. The process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.
  2. The theory and practice of teaching.
  3. A body of knowledge acquired while being educated.
  4. Information about or training on a particular subject.
  5. An enlightening experience.
(Reference: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com...)

In general and in context of this topic, the education we are talking about in school (assuming you are talking about any type of school in general) is about how teachers impart their knowledge through the school platform to the students so as to enlighten them. This can be achieved through an array of approaches and systems, such as having group discussions, teamwork, projects, experiments. However, in your opinion, schools should teach according to the races, genders and IQs of students by separating them into groups. I would like to take this opportunity to explain why your explanation might differ from mine.

Firstly, perhaps you didn't explain why the intellectual and physical difference between races is an issue in education. I read an article recently entitled "Students of all races and ethnicities benefit from ethnically diverse middle schools" issued on 20th June this year. Jaana Juvonen, a professor of psychology at the UCLA, conducted a research. It gives information about ethnic diversity in schools and surprisingly, it shows a wide range of personal and social benefits for students of all races and ethnicities from attending ethnically diverse schools, such as students feeling less vulnerable, reported better attitudes across ethnic groups and believed teachers treated all students more fairly and equally in more diverse schools. Also, when multiple ethnic groups are of relatively equal size, there may be more of a balance of power, with one or more large ethnic groups less likely to exert their influence over one or more small ethnic groups. This shows a more harmonious and colourful environment for studying.

(Reference: https://phys.org...)

Secondly, in regards to your opinion on the setbacks of gender diversity in schools such as the "romantic drama" between male and female students. I would argue that although what you said about romance in school is something considered as a problem in some way that is happening currently, and although dating in adolescence is still common, the "problem" is actually fading gradually every year. According to statistics provided by the childtrends.com, students in the eighth, tenth, and twelfth grades in 2013 were less likely to date than they were in 1991. The change in the behaviour of twelfth-graders was more surprising, where the proportion of youth who did not date was more than doubled, from 14% in 1991 to 38% in 2013. Meanwhile, the proportion of tenth-graders who never date rose from 28% to 44%, and the proportion of eighth-graders increased from 48% to 60%. Overall, we are seeing a downturn in the number of people in schools dating. If your concern is about the disadvantages brought about by students dating from a rather young age such as distractions while studying, perhaps that will be uncommon in the foreseeable future. Besides, having gender balance in schools help students prepare for their future, social and people skills, as they will work in companies where gender diversity is common in the workplace. One of the many uses of schools is to simulate such a situation.

(Reference : https://www.childtrends.org...)

Lastly, separating students by IQ might undermine the quality of education in classrooms as a whole. Firstly I would like to say that it is rather difficult to quantify IQ. Sure you can give students tests and check their scores, but there is a phenomenon where some student may be naturally intelligent, but they do not perform well in tests, and vice versa. However, I will still explain my point. Allow me to first talk about what will happen if schools were to separate students according to their IQs. Obviously, students of higher scores will be assigned to one class and those that have rather low scores will be assigned to low-level groups. You may argue that teachers can teach students better this way, as teachers can teach specifically and teaching materials can be tailor-made according to students' abilities. However, a problem emerges, where the smarter students will get even smarter, but the weaker students getting weaker. You may ask why is that? As Chinese sayings have stood the test of time, allow me to explain what I mean by using a simple Chinese saying. It goes, "People live on mountain when they are near the mountain; and live on water when near water.". The message conveyed is that since humans have to take resources from nature for survival, thus different environments influence people's way of life. In this context, as the smarter students have their successful way of studying and also they are placed in a more academic environment, by putting them together, it is easier for them to achieve more in such a setting. On the other hand, unfortunately, since weaker students might not have a consistent way or system of studying, by putting them together in the same group, the environment might not be as academic as that of the smarter students, hence they might fail to achieve more together. Instead, students with different abilities should come together as a group in the same environment. You might ask what is the good of it? Taking Hong Kong, where I currently live in, as an example. in Hong Kong's Diploma of Education (HKDSE) system, the lowest grade a student can ever get is level U, the highest is level 5** (which is equivalent to 7). When the reporters interviewed the students who got 5** in the public exam, one of the students actually thought that they learnt from weaker students. Before the examination, when the students were still studying in school, the weaker students always ask 5** students questions. Not only can weaker students imitate those smarter students and learn from them, but also allowing the 5** students to benefit from teaching weaker students as it reminds them of specific concepts taught in class. This shows that having the students with different IQs and abilities sharing the same environment can be such an ideal situation!

(Reference: https://books.google.com.hk...)

To be honest, I have thought of an education system where schools are segregating students into different groups, as it is easier for teachers to teach according to the needs of each student. However, it is evident that the advantages of keeping different students of different races, genders and abilities together simply outweighs its disadvantages.

Thank you for taking time to read my opinions. Please correct me if I made any mistakes or misunderstanding.
Debate Round No. 1
icebeartheawesome

Pro

Schools, as you can see, are against racism and bullying in general. We see how Caucasians and Africans have been in conflict since the beginning of time. It's true that we all descend from one person, scientifically and religiously, but over time, humans have evolved to be so different, externally and internally. Thus, intelligence levels have changed dramatically throughout human history.

Asian and European people were smart, inventing government, math, science, and medicine, and even technology. For example, the Chinese invented paper and the Greeks invented the first computer.

On the other hand, African people have been causing nothing but chaos. They invented pornography, if you go examine the Bible. Furthermore, they have been rioting the whole time in American, and their IQ's are statistically the lowest, as a whole.

Therefore, it only makes since to segregate by race and gender. Black culture is slipping further and further down into immorality. They need social and moral and intellectual reform.

So I believe schools must segregate by race and gender. It is the only way for all students to reach their max. Just like how some high schools and colleges give Junior/Senior special assignments, schools should give extra assignments to all students with an IQ of 130 or above.
JordanCJKM

Con

I somehow fail to respond to your ideas in the context of our discussion topic "Schools Should Segregate By Race" for several reasons. However, I will try my best to respond solely to what you have said in round 2, regardless of its general relevance to the topic.

You insisted to state the internal and external (physical and mental) differences between races (and gender?). What you said may be true. In fact, I would say that on a more fundamental level of comparison, no two people are the same even if they are born and brought in the same family. However, I fail to see why, to you, such differences in races is a problem and that schools should segregate their teaching by races? It would be nice to have a brief and direct elaboration from you!

Also, you have also mentioned the contributions of Asians and Europeans to show their intelligence. However, I fail to see why this can be linked to our topic.

Furthermore, you have talked about the contributions of Africa. Although I disagree with what you said about Africans have been causing nothing but chaos. I decide not to respond to this as this is rather irrelevant to our topic. In case you are interested, please check out an article I found online while I was doing research on this topic earlier. You may find this useful in some ways: https://www.theguardian.com...)

Finally, in regards to your statement "Black culture is slipping further and further down into immorality", statistics of macrotrends.net actually show an overall steady decrease in the unemployment rate of "Black or African American" as well as "Hispanic or Latino". This means that black people actually have more open to job opportunities.

(Reference : http://www.macrotrends.net...)

For the last point of yours, which is about special assignments in accordance with students' IQs. This is relevant to our discussion topic. I agree that students who are rather ahead of the rest of the class should be given additional study notes and materials. This is a prevalent way of how teachers teach specific students in class all around the world. It indeed, these brighter students can then excel at their own pace ahead of the class. However, I do not see why such doing should be a reason to segregate by IQ (if not by races if you may). Also, you said that schools should give extra assignments to all students with an IQ of 130 or above, which is quite unfeasible, only a few schools have students with IQs even near 130. So are you saying that students who are considered to be above average in the class, but has an IQ score of less than 130, should not be given additional study materials? How do you know where to even draw the line of threshold? I strongly believe that the teacher in every class is capable of knowing the abilities of students just by daily observation and test scores, and is thus able to teach specific students according to their individual abilities and that we don't really need a specific number or even any numerical representation of one's intelligence.

Thank you for reading my ideas and please respond to my ideas pointed out in round 1 in order for a more academic discussion!
Debate Round No. 2
icebeartheawesome

Pro

If you go examine today's public schools, you'll see that it's natural and human tendency for students of a race or religion to stick together and hang out, generally. Also, races are all intellectually and physically different. Furthermore, they have not been getting along since the beginning of time, with so much ethnic wars. For example, Chinese and Indian people have been in conflict for quite a war, and so have whites and blacks in America.

East Asians and whites are the smartest, as a whole. Blacks lag behind academically. Blacks are society's troublemakers. I'm not being racist, just pointing out the facts.
JordanCJKM

Con

Thank you for your response.

Firstly, however, you still have not pointed out what problems are brought about by the difference in race and intelligence.

To elaborate on my opinions regarding this topic of "Schools Should Segregate By Race", I would like to talk about the trends that show the diversity of students in schools currently as well as what it is expected to be in the coming future.

To begin with, according to the report and research conducted by the American Association of University Professors (AAUP), it is said that the around the early 1960s, with exception of the students attending historically black colleges and universities, only a relative handful of Americans of colour went to college in the US; today, upwards of 1 in 5 undergraduates at four-year schools is a minority. Also, under the intensification of civil rights movements and activities such as President Lyndon B. Johnson's War on Poverty in the mid-1960s prompted the nation to respond to the reality that Americans of colour did not have equal access to education, jobs, housing, or other valued resources. That was when the nation realised and decided to turn over a new leaf. Many traditionally white colleges and universities, prodded by the concerns of the students, began to recognize their failure to extend educational opportunities to black Americans in particular. This multicultural revolution, which arose in large measure alongside college and university efforts to recruit minority students, played a major role not only in the social and economic advancement of millions of Americans of colour, but also in the contributions these individuals have made to the social, cultural, and economic well-being of the nation. "Today, hundreds of colleges and universities recognize the educational value of diversity and view student and faculty diversity as an essential resource for optimizing teaching and learning. " stated in the report. Furthermore, as shown in the "Effects of Diversity on Teaching" part of the report, responses may well be viewed as positive since they suggest that faculty members do not lower their standards or change their grading patterns in the face of a more diverse student population. It is said that "Black minority issues, pressures, or considerations, had altered their role as faculty members 'very little'", which means that it is starting to become rare for situations such as students being treated unproperly due to cultural differences to happen. All of this shows an upward trend of diversification when it comes to students with different racial and cultural backgrounds as schools and even societies as a whole are striving to move towards a more harmonious state and all of this is starting in schools.

(Reference: https://www.aaup.org...)

Secondly, schools in colleges and universities are definitely becoming more racially and culturally diverse, serving kids who come from Hispanic, Asian or mixed-race backgrounds. In an article written by the Huffington Post entitled "In 10 Years, America’s Classrooms Are Going To Be Much More Diverse Than They Are Now" dated on 8th May 2015, it is predicted that by 2025, America's population will be 58% white, compared with 62% white in 2015. By 2060, the latest year for which the U.S. Census Bureau has projections, the population will be just 44% white. This shows that more children of different races will be born in the America. If cultural diversification in classrooms is such a big issue, why don't these people from different backgrounds return to their motherland and be educated there instead given that they have a choice? It is because universities are becoming better at handling and nurturing students of different races and can still maintain a harmonious study environment. This is exactly what gives parents the confidence to send their children to study abroad. It has become a social norm nowadays. All of these also prove my first point as well.

Thank you for taking time to read my opinions!
Debate Round No. 3
icebeartheawesome

Pro

I don't care. Black people are annoying
JordanCJKM

Con

To be honest, I totally understand that different people have different views on different things. I tried to contact you through a private message but it didn't allow me to. I just wanted to state out a few things.

First of all, thank you for bringing up this topic. For all the years I have been using this website, I have never stumbled upon such a revelating topic. I have never thought of such a topic could be such a huge of an issue until I was doing my research on this debate topic. It has been a pleasure having this wonderful debate with you in a friendly manner.

Secondly, again, I understand people hold firm to their belief. I totally understand that. That's part of psychology. I'm not saying it's a detrimental thing, but I do wish you can open up yourself to the real world. Taking Hong Kong, where I'm living currently, as an example, about a great majority of us dislike motherland, China, as well as the citizens in China as a lot of us think that China is an extremely primitive and vile place to live in, and people in the country have poor conduct. This WAS true 2 decades ago. What most of us Hong Kongers don't know, is that China has improved considerably in terms of her economy and society. The Chinese are also becoming more humble and friendly. But since most of us Hong Kongers still see the Chinese today as we saw them 2 decades ago, which we are holding firm to our belief, and so a lot of us still dislike the country and the people. I would say that this is a pity, as we have been fooled by ourselves because we didn't open ourselves to what is actually happening in the real world. The fundamental world is not what you perceive, but what scientific tools and methods reveal, such as statistics. Besides, having 100 years of our lives is just too short, not to mention the possibility of not living until 100 years old. That is why we should fool ourselves, we should lie to ourselves about reality. I know you are not a racist or anything like that, but I do hope you can give yourself a chance to learn more about the world today.

Again, it has been a pleasure having this revelating debate with you all along. We ought to finish the debate in the next round. Whoever wins or loses, I don't think it even matters :) Thank you!
Debate Round No. 4
icebeartheawesome

Pro

Thank you for debating with me. I believe schools should segregate by race. Vote pro.

Merry Christmas.
JordanCJKM

Con

It is my pleasure to be the last speaker in the closing remarks of this debate. Before I wrap things up, I would like to firstly thank my "opponent", although I do consider him as a friend of mine after this friendly debate.

This debate "Schools Should Segregate By Race" has come to an end. Not only did my friend here talk about why he thinks schools should segregate by race but also by gender and intelligence as well! After doing some research on my own, it is still evident that the advantages of having an environment that is more diverse in terms of gender, race and intelligence simply prevail over the disadvantages. Research and surveys directly show that students benefit from studying in a more diverse environment. It is also better-off if students with different abilities can study together in the same classroom. Moreover, schools, in general, are on a path to becoming more diversified than before. Having black people as an example, black parents have enough financial resources to choose where their kids should study at. If studying in a racially diverse environment is such a bad move, why are more parents still sending their lovely kids to schools where others are from different backgrounds? Certainly, I agree that there may still exist cultural conflicts now and then, but the statistics do show that these situations are becoming rare. it is indeed improving.

Thank you once again for my friend's time, as well as the readers' time. I hope this debate has given all of us some insights into the topic. It is indeed an interesting one.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Debating.starfish 5 months ago
Debating.starfish
Seriously? I find it hard to believe pro even has an IQ. Is this a joke or a social experiment?
Posted by Ragnar 6 months ago
Ragnar
---RFD---
Conduct leans toward con as pro did not show any signs of having read the majority of the counter case, and in essence skipped 2 of the five rounds, but at least he did not outright forfeit...

Arguments could be based on the raw number of points pro dropped, but for emphasis I'll point to con catching pro having not proven the needed connection to DNA his case is based upon.

Sources are a landslide. Pro backed up his points with research, even showing us that Africa gave us coffee (I'm biased on this, as I'm an addict). Not to mention, ways that statistically blacks outperform whites in the job market (I'd interpret the data a little different than con did, but they went unchallenged).
Posted by lookingfordebate.exe 7 months ago
lookingfordebate.exe
This is a pretty good debate.'
Posted by ignoranus 7 months ago
ignoranus
I don't think con's link for their IQ stance is working.

Also, if a student began excelling in their current environment and moved to another which was more in accordance to their skills, then would this remove the issue of weaker students failing to improve? Which to my understanding, seems to be the salient point as to why segregating based on IQ would be detrimental.
Posted by Debating_Horse 7 months ago
Debating_Horse
Here we go with another 1960s-style segregation advocate!
Posted by breakingamber 7 months ago
breakingamber
I could make a somewhat convincing argument for race segregation.
Even though I don't agree with it.
Posted by Leaning 7 months ago
Leaning
You might get a few people to agree with that based on gender, but it's only going to be radicals who agree with that on race... I think.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by avan6 3 months ago
avan6
icebeartheawesomeJordanCJKMTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was just having a conversation with himself.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 6 months ago
Ragnar
icebeartheawesomeJordanCJKMTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.