The Instigator
Death23
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
PlagueDoctor
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Sea lions are seals

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Death23
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 764 times Debate No: 76908
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (1)

 

Death23

Pro


The topic should be self explanatory.


Rules:


First round: Acceptance only.


Final round: Rebuttals only. No new arguments.


You flake, you lose.


You troll, you lose.


PlagueDoctor

Con

I accept the challenge and I look forward to debating the topic with you.
Debate Round No. 1
Death23

Pro

Argument:*

P1 - Any organism of the taxonomic family Phocidae or Otariidae is a seal.
P2 - All sea lions are organisms of the taxonomic family Otariidae.
C1 - Therefore, all sea lions are seals.

This argument is valid. If the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.

* "P" is an abbreviation for "premise" and "C" is an abbreviation for "conclusion".

Support for P1 -

Support for P1 comes in the form of encyclopedic and dictionary entries for the word "seal". These references are reputable, sufficiently numerous, and are inclusive of the taxonomic families mentioned in P1. The family names have been emphasized.
  • Encyclopedia Britannica [1]
    • any of 32 species of web-footed aquatic mammals that live chiefly in cold seas and whose body shape, round at the middle and tapered at the ends, is adapted to swift and graceful swimming. There are two types of seals: the earless, or true, seals (family Phocidae); and the eared seals (family Otariidae), which comprise the sea lions and fur seals.
  • Oxford Dictionary [2]
    • A fish-eating aquatic mammal with a streamlined body and feet developed as flippers, returning to land to breed or rest. Families Phocidae (the true seals) and Otariidae (the eared seals, including the fur seals and sea lions). The latter have external ear flaps and are able to sit upright, and the males are much larger than the females
  • American Heritage Dictionary [3]
    • Any of various aquatic carnivorous mammals of the families Phocidae and Otariidae, found chiefly in cold regions and having a sleek torpedo-shaped body and limbs that are modified into paddlelike flippers.
  • Collins Dictionary [4]
    • any of two families (Otariidae and Phocidae) of sea carnivores with a doglike head, a torpedo-shaped body, and four webbed feet or flippers: they live in cold or temperate waters and usually eat fish see also eared seal, earless seal

Support for P2 -

Support for P2 comes in the form of encyclopedic and dictionary entries for the term "sea lion." These references are reputable, sufficiently numerous, and demonstrate that sea lion species are of the family Otariidae, which is also referred to as "eared seals." [1][2] "Otariidae" and/or "eared seal" have been emphasized.

  • Encyclopedia Britannica [5]
    • any of five species of eared seals found primarily in Pacific waters. Sea lions are characterized by a coat of short, coarse hair that lacks a distinct undercoat. Except for the California sea lion (Zalophus californianus), males have lion-like manes and constantly roar to defend their harems (hence their name).
  • Oxford Dictionary [6]
    • An eared seal occurring mainly on Pacific coasts, the large male of which has a mane on the neck and shoulders. Five genera and species in the family Otariidae
  • American Heritage Dictionary [7]
    • Any of several large seals of the family Otariidae, having a blunter muzzle and a thinner coat than the fur seals, especially the California sea lion (Zalophus californianus).
  • Collins Dictionary [8]
    • any of several genera of large, eared seals without underfur, usually living in colonies along the Pacific coastline

Sources -

1 - http://www.britannica.com...

2 - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

3 - https://www.ahdictionary.com...

4 - http://www.collinsdictionary.com...

5 - http://www.britannica.com...

6 - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

7 - http://www.ahdictionary.com...

8 - http://www.collinsdictionary.com...

PlagueDoctor

Con

In your argument, you state the following:
"Encyclopedia Britannica [1]
any of 32 species of web-footed aquatic mammals that live chiefly in cold seas and whose body shape, round at the middle and tapered at the ends, is adapted to swift and graceful swimming. There are two types of seals: the earless, or true, seals (family Phocidae); and the eared seals (family Otariidae), which comprise the sea lions and fur seals."
The family difference should be enough to settle this. In taxonomy, the family is the third-lowest rung on the taxonomy ladder, per se. A family can split into many genera-the most notable examples of this are the harbor seal (Phoca vitulina), the Hawaiian Monk seal (Monachus schauinslandi), and the Northern Elephant seal (Mirounga angustirostris). Furthermore, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA), while seals and sea lions both belong to the order Pinnipedia, they are indeed different animals.
"Oxford Dictionary [2]
A fish-eating aquatic mammal with a streamlined body and feet developed as flippers, returning to land to breed or rest. Families Phocidae (the true seals) and Otariidae (the eared seals, including the fur seals and sea lions). The latter have external ear flaps and are able to sit upright, and the males are much larger than the females."
Please refer to the last sentence in this definition. It states that the latter (Otariidae) have external ear flaps and are able to sit upright, with the males being much larger than the females. Three crucial differences were stated in that sentence alone.
"American Heritage Dictionary [3]
Any of various aquatic carnivorous mammals of the families Phocidae and Otariidae, found chiefly in cold regions and having a sleek torpedo-shaped body and limbs that are modified into paddlelike flippers."
According to the New World Encyclopedia, family Phocidae are also known as "earless seals". In my previous argument, I said that the family Otariidae possesses external ear flaps-a fact so basic that looking up images of "Otariidae seals" will prove it-as well as a search of Phocidae seals. This is a crucial difference-and if sea lions belong to family Otariidae, then this, if anything, must prove that sea lions are definitely not seals.
"Collins Dictionary [4]
any of two families (Otariidae and Phocidae) of sea carnivores with a doglike head, a torpedo-shaped body, and four webbed feet or flippers: they live in cold or temperate waters and usually eat fish see also eared seal, earless seal."
This time, the dictionary goes on to say "see also eared seal, earless seal.", acknowledging their differences. While the two animals are very much similar (carnivores, doglike head, torpedo-shaped body, four webbed feet or flippers), the difference in the presence of ears within the two families is the chief difference.
I have said what has needed to be said about this topic and I await your response.
Debate Round No. 2
Death23

Pro


Con’s argues that sea lions do not count as seals because sea lions are of the taxonomic family Otariidae as opposed to the taxonomic family Phocidae. Con states that “if sea lions belong to family Otariidae, then this, if anything, must prove that sea lions are definitely not seals.” Con elaborates on many of the differences between the taxonomic families Phocidae and Otariidae.


Yet, Con provides no dictionary or encyclopedia reference to support his assertion that species of the family Otariidae don’t count as seals; nor does Con dispute any of the provided definitions for the word “seal”. All of these definitions are explicitly inclusive of both Phocidae and Otariidae. It doesn’t matter that there are differences between the taxonomic families Phocidae and Otariidae. Of course there are differences, but this doesn’t lead to the conclusion that species of the family Otariidae are not seals. Con’s contention that species of the family Otariidae don’t count as seals flies in the face of every dictionary definition and encyclopedic reference provided Additionally, there are many species of the family Otariidae that even have the word “seal” as part of the species name:



https://en.wikipedia.org...


https://en.wikipedia.org...


https://en.wikipedia.org...


https://en.wikipedia.org...


https://en.wikipedia.org...


https://en.wikipedia.org...



If Con’s argument is that sea lions are not seals because they are of the family Otariidae, then Con must also assert that the Antarctic fur seal, Galapagos fur seal, New Zealand fur seal, brown fur seal, and northern fur seal are not seals.


Con states that seals and sea lions are different animals according to the NOAA, but doesn’t provide a web-link or some other way for us to evaluate his source. Con’s reference to the NOAA should be disregarded because Con did not provide us with enough information to verify his claim.


PlagueDoctor

Con

PlagueDoctor forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Death23

Pro

This debate is over. Con has lost this debate pursuant to this rule:

You flake, you lose. (See round 1 rules)
PlagueDoctor

Con

PlagueDoctor forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 1 year ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
==================================================================
>Reported vote: Martley// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Vote

[*Reason for removal*] (1) No explanation for any point awarded. Con was the one forfeiting multiple rounds but all points were awarded to Con.
===========================================================================
Posted by PlagueDoctor 1 year ago
PlagueDoctor
I enjoyed debating this-for the later rounds, I could not find the time to debate. I agree wholeheartedly that you have won.
Posted by WaywardSon 1 year ago
WaywardSon
This... This is the best thing I've seen all day.
Posted by Death23 1 year ago
Death23
Feel free to debate it with me then.
Posted by RaifWeaver 1 year ago
RaifWeaver
A quick google search confirms what i'm saying (I really don't see how this is a debate at all!)

"Seals and sea lions are marine mammals called 'pinnipeds' that differ in physical characteristics and adaptations. Sea lions (left) are brown, bark loudly, "walk" on land using their large flippers and have visible ear flaps. Seals have small flippers, wriggle on their bellies on land, and lack visible ear flaps."

They are simply different animals so the statement "Sea lions are seals" is wrong.
Posted by RaifWeaver 1 year ago
RaifWeaver
Sea lions aren't seals they are both mammals but they are two different creatures, this is a fact and not really something that can be debated. You just have to look at a sea lion next to a seal to know they are not the same.
Posted by Death23 1 year ago
Death23
Well for some reason a lot of people think they aren't.
Posted by Debatasaurus 1 year ago
Debatasaurus
This isn't very debatable. Almost like "1+1=2".
Posted by Death23 1 year ago
Death23
Ah, BoP on me, since I brought the claim.
Posted by Death23 1 year ago
Death23
There are no significant source restrictions. It will be up to the voters to decide the credibility of the various sources offered. There are no definitions that I would like to clarify.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 1 year ago
FaustianJustice
Death23PlagueDoctorTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct awarded due to Con's FF. Source points awarded for satisfactorily and completely covering supporting P1 and P2 as true. Because of this, Con was left no where to go, as their argument of what specific animals were members of what family (Otaariidae) was already inherent and demonstrated in Pro's case. (eared seals were already part of the "disputed" taxonomy).