The Instigator
Farooq
Pro (for)
Losing
17 Points
The Contender
Wierdkp326
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points

Senator Barrack Obama is white

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,492 times Debate No: 1791
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (10)
Votes (14)

 

Farooq

Pro

I got bored of itellectually pleasing debate and decided I wished to post this one instead. So here it is.

For this debate I will assume the postion of reality and leave my contender to determine what sort illogical consensus could possibly refute my short and simple arguemnt, that Barrack Obama is white (he was born Barry actually, but changed his name for some reason or other in college).

It is reasonable to assume that he is a "white" (hearby reffering to Caucasian descent) because his mother was a white from Southern stock distantly related to the illustrious President Jefferson Davies (hardly a black man).

Although many people deem Obama to be "black" due to his father's lineage this only helps prove my point further, for if the common person stereotypes this man as black due to a half-lineage than surely I am just as correct in calling him "white". For this arguement is not about whether or not he's black, but that he is white, which no ounce of reality will choose to refute.
Wierdkp326

Con

Hey Farooq,
Your assertion that Barack Obama is white, though it may be fair in that he has a white mother, conflicts with today's conventional wisdom on race. You did note that today's measure of race is an "illogical consensus", so I'm assuming you are making a side point that today's race classification system is wrong, which would make Barack white (as well as black) because of it.
In response to this, I start off by saying that Barack Obama is black because it is congruent with society's definition of race. Because a part of race has to do with how you appear, and Obama looks like a black person, he is probably black. Further, because Obama acknowledges the part of his lineage that is black, he is black.
These assertions are made with the assumption that a person cannot be both black and white, which is the same as the assertion you made in your first argument. To generalize, If people must choose only ONE race to acknowledge, then an individual who meets the criteria for race X while aligning him/herself to race X, than it has to be that he/she is race X.

This topic does open up several questions about how society classifies race, to which if you want to argue that the general method used today is wrong, there is room to debate a whole different topic in round two. But for now, I leave it with Barack is Black because he says he is, and society's definition of black supports his argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Farooq

Pro

First of all I would like to congratulate you on actually spelling my name properly- instead of with a "g" like so many mistake the "q" for. As for your arguments, well they are flawed in several respects.

First of all you seem to be basing the premise of this debate around the fact that Obama is black, but this is not the topic at hand. Rather, it is about whether or not he is white. What is white? It descent from one of the Caucasian races of Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East and people descended potently from these people. You yourself acknowledge that his mother as one these types of people (for image see http://images.google.ca...) and it is therefore logical to assume that her spawn, with at least half her blood is of the same kind, because as we have previously determined race is based on one's genetic lineage.

If people are so keen on choosing to identify this inspirational young Senator as a single race why cannot it be white than? If some other people are calling him white do not other people like myself have equal grounding as to call him by the other half of his lineage. Perception is not important, because people can categorised by a variety of other methods as well. But look at that image a try to refute that his half-lineage is not white.
Wierdkp326

Con

I have a friend named Farooq, I think he'd be pissed if I spelled it wrong. :-)

I absolutely do acknowledge that there are white members in his lineage, as well as there are blacks. Because of this, if one ignores the black members in the family, than one can say that he is white with no quarrel. However, it is not the case that Obama has no black lineage, as such, he is both black and white in a sense. However, you are asserting that he is white, and treating this as the only race to which his history applies. If you were to assert that Obama has white lineage in his family and is therefore "part white", then there wouldn't be any real debate to your stated topic. Rather, it would be a debate on whether it is possible to label someone's race as "Mutt" over any particular race. Instead, you have chosen to argue that he is white, and at no point in time gave mention to the prospect of him being Black as well.
Given that that is the case, you have set the standard that there can only be ONE race for a person. If Obama can only be one race, and it is my job to prove that this race is not white, I assert that he is Black. I can look at the picture of his mother all day, and it would not change the fact that he has a black lineage to which he identifies. Further, given that he fits the phenotype of a black man, has history for one, and is considered by the general consensus of society to be one, it is clear that Obama is a Black man, and NOT white.
You mention that people, like yourself, who wish to identify Obama as white should have equal grounding with those who choose otherwise. But, race is primarily a social construct. There have been shown to be some scientific (or statistical) differences between the races, but in the big picture, race is determined and measured by society. As such, equal grounding to the plea of Obama being white merely means that you have a VOTE in choosing his race. Your vote, however, is overturned by society's conventional wisdom on race. Which leads to your argument on what is "Caucasian".
Caucasian is, according to dictionary.com, "Of or being a human racial classification distinguished especially by very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India."

Notice that the FIRST thing that is mentioned is how a white person LOOKS, and then the question of origin is brought up. All of the other definitions of Caucasian either allude to looks or a certain place in the Caucasus mountains. This means that how an individual looks gives the first indicators of the race of the individual, and then a question of one's background is taken into account. In fairness, Race may be an arbitrary definition, but it just so happens that society, as a whole, determines what factors constitute each race. Redundant though it may be, THIS society has chosen to designate Barack Obama as a Black man. Coincidently, Barack Obama ALSO designates himself as a black man (let's count his vote twice, it is his body, after all).

In the end, what it comes down to is society. If the typical standards do not precisely apply to each individual, and in Obama's case, they do not, than some measure of "voting" could be be necessary. Society DID Speak, and now we have a black man with some white lineage, rather than the other way around.
Debate Round No. 2
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by taorayn 9 years ago
taorayn
The fact that the earth is round has been disputed that doesn't make an less fact...
Posted by Wierdkp326 9 years ago
Wierdkp326
Race is not a basis for any sort of greatness. Race is coincidental to the actions of anyone. It would take a phenomenal idiot to assert that race had anything to do with greatness.

Taorayn, there were a few studies that concluded that humans originated in Africa, but they have also been disputed. We still really don't know for sure where humans originated.

As a laughable side note, I'm staring at Obama's USA today profile, and he kind of looks a little gray skinned in it. It must be the lighting. Is gray a race?
Posted by taorayn 9 years ago
taorayn
You see, you can't deal with the fact that human life started with a black woman and so you say humans began as monkey's which is false for their is a substantive missing linkage in the claim that humans are genetic spawns of monkeys, what we do know is that the upright homo sapiens that we know as our ancestors had dark skin and also they originated in Africa. And you saying that all people care about is the fact that Obama is half black is ridiculous but then again I'm sure you don't mind belittling his intelligence as he is half black and since all YOU seem to care about is his race and the fact that he is half black which is what YOU equate with inferiority and ignorance YOU will fail to see that his skin color is only historically significant if he wins, but it is his actions that will be relevantly significant. Of course I can't conceive that you will understand any of this since as you state you are a racist which is what I equate with inferiority and ignorance.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
I'll say that we started with monkeys, which is where life began for us humans.

Also, say I'm racist, whatever. But I will say that all people care about is the fact he is black, and make all sorts of claims. So, my point will not be taken back.
Posted by taorayn 9 years ago
taorayn
Sure race is a "moot point" if you're not a person of color and if you're not trying to "pass" (and even then the point of your race becomes even more the "point" unless your physicality allows you to unnoticeably pass) . And U.S. Patriot your racist comment was ignorant mainly because you probably haven't accepted the fact that all life began in Africa, the whole human race came from a BLACK woman's womb, deal with it...
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
"Blacks everywhere attempt to claim him, and disregard the fact that his White ancestry may be the reason for the excellence." - U.S. Patriot

US Patriot, to claim that his white ancestry (only) makes him great is racist. We are all a product of both of our parents, thus, both parents receive credit.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
He is an admirable standout and another example of what happens when anyone of half a white ancestry comes into the light of the media. Blacks everywhere attempt to claim him, and disregard the fact that his White ancestry may be the reason for the excellence.

Just a muse.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
who cares about race?

it is a moot point these days
Posted by taorayn 9 years ago
taorayn
I would just like to say according to historical American law's that provide definitions of who is and who isn't white, which is (although varying from state to state) if a person has 1/16th amount of Native or Black blood then that person is indeed not white but instead Black or Native American. Some states held that it was 1/8th which allowed that a person 1/16th Black or Native could then pass for white. In Barrack Obama's case, according to old State laws, Obama is Black and couldn't even pass for white being that half of his genetic make-up came from a Black man.

In current society he is considered Black, still, simply because that is what he represents himself as. Although now it seems that race is becoming more of an attitude or culture, like so-n-so is not Black because blah-blah-blah or this white boy is actually black 'cause blah-blah-blah and all of this nonsense is based upon stereotypes which makes that crap somewhat invalid. But in my opinion claiming that oneself is Black is more of a political/social statement for people with African heritage which even more proves that just the fact that Obama claims his Blackness makes his own assertion the most valid truth possible.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
I would just like to say that you are right, he is white. His real name is Barack though, he was named after his father.
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by kimba 8 years ago
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