The Instigator
MasturDbtor
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Beginner
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Sexual Reassignment Should Require A Positive Brain Scan To Proceed

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/24/2012 Category: Health
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,722 times Debate No: 25813
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

MasturDbtor

Pro

Sexual reassignment is not a small decision to make. It involves irreversible changes to the human body. Fortunately, science can now see "gender dysphoria" on brain scans.

http://www.newscientist.com...

So, to prevent people from making some serious mistakes positive diagnosis of transsexuality and subsequent sexual reassignment should only be approved if there is a positive brain scan.
Beginner

Con

Your only link providing possible scientific ability to determine "gender dysphoria." has been scoured and picked clean.
Unfortunately, even the scientists who have conducted the field of study sourced above are not confident enough to push this research into actual practice. Why?? I will quote your source:

"Guillamon[, the scientist,] isn't sure whether the four regions [of the brain] are at all associated with notions of gender"

"Guillamon thinks such scans may not help in all cases. 'Research has shown that white matter matures during the first 20 to 30 years of life,' he says. 'People may experience early or late onset of transsexuality and we don't know what causes this difference.'"

As you can see, this form of research is relatively new. Even the scientists of this study are somewhat doubtful and unsure of their research (they require further testing).
The test was performed on subjects who were already transgendered. No data has been provided in correlation to the practical application of the transgendered people's brain structures to the detection of 'gender dyphoria' in non-transitioned people. This means that the data has no real impact on non-transitioned people. If you were to perform this form of diagnostic test on the 'unchanged', there would be a problem: While there is a standard for detection of anomalous brain structure for those who are transgendered, there is no basic standard of detection for those who aren't.

Positive Diagnosis of trans-sexuality is impossible as of yet and is therefore unnecessary. If such a requirement were to be enforced, applicants for gender change will never EVER fulfill their need. There would be no way to change one's gender, making it impractical to the cause of transsexuality.

http://portal.uned.es...
www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html
Debate Round No. 1
MasturDbtor

Pro

MasturDbtor forfeited this round.
Beginner

Con

My opponent has conceded.
Points dropped:
1. Achieving a positive brain scan is unrelated to sexual reassignment
2. The field of study my opponent seeks to promote into practice is relatively undeveloped and therefore should not be forced into application.
3. Enforcing a positive brain scan prior to sexual reassignment is impractical

The counter resolution stands: A positive brain scan should not be required before sexual reassignment.
Debate Round No. 2
MasturDbtor

Pro

Physical Test Needed to Prove This Is A Valid Condition
If it is a valid condition as con claims and as the American Psychiatric Association agrees then it must have a physical basis, therefore we must either go with the brain scan for diagnosis or we have no just claim that there is any disorder and not just a bunch of people who mistakenly think they should've been the opposite sex.

If the brain scans are invalid then "sex change operations" are a big SCAM. Giving the benefit of the doubt and yielding to the science we have on it if it is indeed real then these brain scans show how it works, and given they are observable we should require a brain scan to confirm it.

If it turns out there is a different reason and that gains more credibility then we should instead require a test for that instead but for now we should either A. Use the most valid ressarch available to get a test to determine eligibility. OR B. Not allow sex changes.

Beginner

Con

"If it is a valid condition as con claims"
Quote me. I did not claim anything to be a valid condition.
This entire paragraph is a complete waste of time.

"If the brain scans are invalid then "sex change operations" are a big SCAM."
Scam (n.) - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
There is no deception on the part of the conductors of the sex change operation. This is just silly...It's as if pro was stating that surgeons are conniving to do something. They are not a scam in that the ones who apply for it get EXACTLY what they ask for. There is no deception running under the operation. It's plain and simple: male -> female
female -> male.

"Giving the benefit of the doubt and yielding to the science we have on it if it is indeed real then these brain scans show how it works, and given they are observable we should require a brain scan to confirm it."
I've already logically refuted the practicality of brain scans in this area of operation. Pro states that brain scans are plausible in this area without any logical or data support.

If it turns out there is a different reason and that gains more credibility then we should instead require a test for that instead but for now we should either A. Use the most valid ressarch available to get a test to determine eligibility. OR B. Not allow sex changes.

"If it turns out there is a different reason and that gains more credibility then we should instead require a test for that instead but for now we should either A. Use the most valid ressarch available to get a test to determine eligibility. OR B. Not allow sex changes."
Research and application are two very different things. Research into the structure of the DNA performed many decades earlier was not to manifest into actual application in medical science until more recent years. Just because something is in research doesn't mean it should be applied. Since this is the case, these two things my opponent thinks we 'should' do are irrelevant to the context of this debate.

My opponent continues failing to prove his resolution to be a necessity.
Debate Round No. 3
MasturDbtor

Pro

Scam

Yes if the brain scans are invalid it is a SCAM. Not on the part of the surgeons, on the part of the people who market and promote it, and even then not all of them just those who know it's bogus and unnecessary.

Giving the benefit of the doubt is good, though if in fact it is a real condition that needs treatment. Maybe someday when the science is more conclusive we will be able to determine that it isn't and discontinue it or that it is.

But until then we should still make sure the people getting the surgery have real gender identity disorder. We don't have to do it perfectly, and it is not possible to do it perfectly. But it is possible to do it and we should do it in the best way we know how, and currently that would be with a brain scan. Just because there are a few "iffy" things about it doesn't mean we shouldn't use it given the alternative is to use nothing which inevitably results in a lot more people getting this operation who don't really need it.

There has to be some standard other than a person taking a survey, since all that information is subjective as well as easy to fake. A person who thinks they have GID is likely to only give answers that they know will more likely lead the doctor to approve surgery, thinking "why risk the doctor misunderstanding me and denying me the surgery?". We can't just go on words alone, we need physical evidence of transsexuality.
Beginner

Con

"Yes if the brain scans are invalid it is a SCAM. Not on the part of the surgeons, on the part of the people who market and promote it, and even then not all of them just those who know it's bogus and unnecessary."
Since brain scans are invalid, the resolution has been successfully proven to be untenable.

"But until then we should still make sure the people getting the surgery have real gender identity disorder. We don't have to do it perfectly, and it is not possible to do it perfectly. But it is possible to do it and we should do it in the best way we know how"
I agree. We SHOULD do it the best way we know how, but this is irrelevant to brain scans.

"There has to be some standard other than a person taking a survey, since all that information is subjective as well as easy to fake."
Again, I am in accordance with your statement. BUT AGAIN: it is irrelevant to the original contention.

My opponent's entire last round attempting to justify the existence of an non-subjective method to confirming GID does not support the imposition of brain scanning.
I have proven the brain scan method to be ineffective and have been met with a near nonexistent resistance.

"1. Achieving a positive brain scan is unrelated to sexual reassignment
2. The field of study my opponent seeks to promote into practice is relatively undeveloped and therefore should not be forced into application.
3. Enforcing a positive brain scan prior to sexual reassignment is impractical
The counter resolution stands: A positive brain scan should not be required before sexual reassignment."
Debate Round No. 4
MasturDbtor

Pro

Con treats the questionability of the brain scans as a black-and-white absolute and says that therefore it is useless. This is nonsense.

We currently have two options:
1. Sex changes are allowed when the person answers correctly on a questionaire.
2. Sex changes are allowed after a brain scan is performed.

My contention is that 2>1. Yes there is questionability about the reliability of 2 but it is clearly more reliable than 1. With 1 a person is obviously going to answer all the questions in such a way as to make sure they get the surgery. With 2 some people may be turned down.

1 does not protect people who may be confused and not really transsexul from going ahead with one of the biggest mistakes of their lives. 2 offers some imperfect protection but it's better than 1.

If another study comes along and there is something with even more evidence than we can replace 2. But it's ridiculous to say that because it's not completely reliable that a non-physical questionaire is better.

Vote Pro!
Beginner

Con

Is pro being serious?
The option number 2 presented not only does not provide perfect protection, but also it provides NO protection. What the fork is this??

"But it's ridiculous to say that because it's not completely reliable that a non-physical questionaire is better."
Brain scanning is not better because it's practical methodology does NOT exist at ALL!

I didn't think I'd need to go into the logistics of this, but pro, being so insistent, is forcing me to do so.
How ridiculous are pro's claims? By saying we should put something nonexistent into practice, pro has made a debacle of himself. It is similar to suggesting that we should put into practical use a time travel machine because of its given advantages. Time travel machines would decimate global warming, destroy the transportation problems, indefinitely speed up nearly all processes in the world, it'd be f***ing stupid to deny it. All opponents of the time machines are ridiculously dumb. What ingenuity! My opponent deserves an applause.

I have successfully disproved all of my opponent's statements. I have also disproved a faulty resolution.
Pro, in flailing aimlessly, has lost this debate. I've been repeating the same assault many times over while my opponent ran around on a tangent. My statements, being uncontested, stand firm.
Con wins.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
Oh SHOOT!! I didn't mean to accept...
ERRRMM!!!
No votes have been placed for this debate.