The Instigator
Chandler
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Sexual abuse already perpetrated by ETs during abductions should be forgiven.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,136 times Debate No: 11576
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (5)

 

Chandler

Pro

It is integral to the survival of the human race that we allow the ETs a clean slate. We do not even know whether the aliens are observing the Golden Rule. If they are, then they may have no idea why we are detaining their pilots. A campaign against ET sexual abuse might be perceived as an act of war. Surely, we could not withstand such a conflict.

Even if the aliens knew they were victimizing abductees by probing them, this does not mean they will react kindly to our punishment of them.

There is still a chance that once we make the ETs aware of our customs, they will cease their sexual misconduct, and perhaps cease abductions altogether.

The risk is too great for us to instigate the ETs. Their technology is far too superior. Our only hope to be treated with mercy is to obey them.
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for creating this debate and I hope that it will be interesting. I stand opposed to the resolution that the sexual abuse already perpetrated by ETs during abductions should be forgiven. I believe that both my opponent and I understand the terms used and that semantics need not be used.

Here is the scenario:

Aliens have been secretly abducting humans for a while now, only recently has these actions become widely accepted as true and those in power are looking for a way to peacefully introduce the aliens to our earthly society. This introduction involves peaceful negotiations, if they didn't then there would be no point in seeking reparations for the sexual abuse. The designated representatives of Earth would make the aliens aware of their misconduct and the reparations that the people of Earth are seeking. These reparations would likely not include incarceration of the individual aliens but could possibly entail that the aliens do or give something in reparation to those victimized individuals. The aliens could respond to this information in many different ways, a two of which I can think of are here:

* Compliance in hopes of continuing a peaceful relationship between our two species. The aliens could easily have attempted to interact openly with the human race without abducting our people, they would be made aware of what exactly they did wrong and know that what happened is not okay.
* Non-compliance that involves the alien race waging a war against humanity, one that humanity would likely lose due to the fact that the aliens likely have superior technology due to the fact that they have a reliable form of at least interplanetary travel or, if what we know about out galaxy is true, intergalactic travel.

The first scenario would be ideal, it means that the alien race had peaceful intentions when they arrived at our planet and should by no means balk at the idea that what they did was improper. The second is not quite so ideal but it does beg the question as to the alien race's true intentions for reaching out planet. Since these aliens have technology I do not believe that it is unreasonable to think that they are a sentient race that would know the implications of interfering with another, unknown, sentient, species.
~

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Rebuttals
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///We do not even know whether the aliens are observing the Golden Rule. If they are, then they may have no idea why we are detaining their pilots. A campaign against ET sexual abuse might be perceived as an act of war. Surely, we could not withstand such a conflict.///

I agree that it would be a bad thing if humans rounded up and punished ETs, but you also must consider that with their superior technology it would be unlikely that they could be detained without aid from other aliens. This punishment might not even take the form of imprisonment.
~

///Even if the aliens knew they were victimizing abductees by probing them, this does not mean they will react kindly to our punishment of them.///

If this were the case I doubt that anything done or not done by the human population would save us.
~

///There is still a chance that once we make the ETs aware of our customs, they will cease their sexual misconduct, and perhaps cease abductions altogether.///

This may be true, but ignorance of the law is not a defense. The aliens couls easily have made their presence known without victimizing humans.
~

///The risk is too great for us to instigate the ETs. Their technology is far too superior. Our only hope to be treated with mercy is to obey them.///

As I said earlier, if the alien's intent was to destroy humanity I doubt that their reasoning would be punishment from our human justice system.
~

This is just me talking, but I would think that if an alien race traveled across space to our planet I doubt that asking for reparation for abuse on their part would tip the scales and lead to an interspecies war. If it did I would suspect that the destruction of our species was always their plan. I therefore declare the resolution negated.
Debate Round No. 1
Chandler

Pro

My opponent has stated that peaceful negotiations have taken place between Earthlings and ETs. While this may or may not be true, reports of abductions have been far more numerous.

During abductions, humans are treated like animals. This is very sad and hard for us to accept, but it would be foolish for us to expect a superior species to treat us as equals. Do scientists pay monkeys reparations?

The following quote is taken from my opponent's argument:

"The aliens could respond to this information in many different ways, a two of which I can think of are here: ... * Non-compliance that involves the alien race waging a war against humanity, one that humanity would likely lose due to the fact that the aliens likely have superior technology..."

Here opponent has admitted that accusing the ETs of criminal activity could lead to a war which would doom the human race. He has, however, grossly understated the implications of their superior technology. They could wipe every man, woman, and child from the face of the planet from a remote location, and we probably couldn't shoot down a single flying saucer if there was one in our airspace to shoot at. This is a risk that we cannot afford to take.

Even if accusing the ETs were a viable option, forgiveness is much healthier psychologically. http://www.mayoclinic.com...
As explained on the Mayo Clinic website, "When someone you care about hurts you, you can hold on to anger, resentment and thoughts of revenge — or embrace forgiveness and move forward."
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

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Rebuttals
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///My opponent has stated that peaceful negotiations have taken place between Earthlings and ETs. While this may or may not be true, reports of abductions have been far more numerous.///

The situation that I proposed is hypothetical. If the alien race does not have peaceful negotiations with the human race I don't believe that humans would have any chance to survive, or at least retain our freedom, even if we didn't accuse them of abducting our citizens.
~

///During abductions, humans are treated like animals. This is very sad and hard for us to accept, but it would be foolish for us to expect a superior species to treat us as equals. Do scientists pay monkeys reparations?///

The difference is that monkeys are not sentient, even if the aliens are unable to reliably communicate with us it should be fairly obvious to them that we are a sentient race capable of higher thought. Also, the claim that humans are treated like animals only supports my side because harsher treatment suggests a greater need for reprimand.
~

///Here opponent has admitted that accusing the ETs of criminal activity could lead to a war which would doom the human race. He has, however, grossly understated the implications of their superior technology. They could wipe every man, woman, and child from the face of the planet from a remote location, and we probably couldn't shoot down a single flying saucer if there was one in our airspace to shoot at. This is a risk that we cannot afford to take.///

The fact that this is a risk that we can't afford to take is your opinion, I for one would rather die than be enslaved by an alien race. You have no idea of exactly how superior their weapons technology is or if it is even superior to human weaponry. I do acknowledge the possibility that asking reparations for the treatment of humans could lead to war, but I also state that this possibility is fairly low. The human representatives would not accuse the aliens unless there was ample proof that the abuse happened and it is not unreasonable to ask for reparations. I will reiterate that these reparations should not take the form of the incarceration/punishment of individual, but rather as reimbursement of those victimized.
~

///As explained on the Mayo Clinic website, "When someone you care about hurts you, you can hold on to anger, resentment and thoughts of revenge — or embrace forgiveness and move forward."///

I don't see what this has to do with the debate. I doubt that anyone on earth cares enough about the aliens to want to unconditionally forgive them.
~

I await my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 2
Chandler

Pro

"monkeys are not sentient"

There is some debate as to whether or not monkeys are sentient. http://en.wikipedia.org...
They most certainly have senses and perceive subjectively. Probably, what my opponent means is that they are not intelligent or capable of "higher thought".

"even if the aliens are unable to reliably communicate with us it should be fairly obvious to them that we are a sentient race capable of higher thought."

"Higher thought" is a relative term; higher than what? Monkeys are smarter than dogs. Does that make them our equals? Just because we have nuclear energy and the Theory of Evolution doesn't mean the ETs will, or even should, embrace us as equals.

"I for one would rather die than be enslaved by an alien race."

The aliens have shown no sign that they wish to enslave us, only that they wish to study us... invasively. The option of dying will always remain, should submission to ET demands become too humiliating for you.

The ETs want only to probe a few human beings every now and then, out of our whole planet. They will probably figure out the secrets of human DNA pretty soon. After all, they have superior science to us as you have stated. Once they get the answers they are seeking I'm sure they will stop abducting people. They don't do it for recreational purposes, or out of cruelty. They do it out of a passion for science, one which we as human beings should understand.

If victims need to be compensated, it is worth the government's while to do so themselves, to maintain peaceful relations with the ETs. Forgiveness means the ETs themselves should be absolved from paying the cost. We have no leverage here. We can only proceed with forgiveness and understanding.
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

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Rebuttals
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///There is some debate as to whether or not monkeys are sentient. They most certainly have senses and perceive subjectively. Probably, what my opponent means is that they are not intelligent or capable of "higher thought".///

I should have clarified what I meant when I used the word 'sentience.' What I meant was that they are unable to make moral decisions and do not have intelligence. You are correct when you say that monkeys do not fit my definition.
~

///"Higher thought" is a relative term; higher than what? Monkeys are smarter than dogs. Does that make them our equals? Just because we have nuclear energy and the Theory of Evolution doesn't mean the ETs will, or even should, embrace us as equals.///

Higher thought is not a relative term, it is a common phrase used in place of the high-order thinking process which is best categorized, I think, by Bloom's taxonomy [1]. I never mentioned anything about being treated as equals, even though that is something that the alien's should acknowledge as a possibility. They should however realize that if they try and force themselves on our race we will likely not respond favorably.
~

///The aliens have shown no sign that they wish to enslave us, only that they wish to study us... invasively. The option of dying will always remain, should submission to ET demands become too humiliating for you.///

You can't possibly know that unless you are:
A.) an Abductee or;
B.) An alien
Since for the purposes of this debate you can not prove that you are either of these things we are forced to assume that you are not. Even if you are correct in assuming that they wish to study us that does not mean that they do not plan to destroy our race. Does an military commander not study his enemy before battle?
~

///The ETs want only to probe a few human beings every now and then, out of our whole planet. They will probably figure out the secrets of human DNA pretty soon. After all, they have superior science to us as you have stated. Once they get the answers they are seeking I'm sure they will stop abducting people. They don't do it for recreational purposes, or out of cruelty. They do it out of a passion for science, one which we as human beings should understand.///

This claim is unsupported and I dismiss it for the same reasons that I give in the rebuttal right above this one. That which is introduced without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
~

///If victims need to be compensated, it is worth the government's while to do so themselves, to maintain peaceful relations with the ETs. Forgiveness means the ETs themselves should be absolved from paying the cost. We have no leverage here. We can only proceed with forgiveness and understanding.///

It may be the view of some that passively submitting, by that I mean being nice for fear of retribution, would be the best course of action. That is not justice. An alien race shouldn't be granted special permissions simply because we don't want to make them angry.
~

To summarize my position the alien race should not suffer physical punishment, but they should offer reparations to those that they victimized as punishment. This is to uphold the basic principal of justice. I rest my case and urge a Con vote.

[1] http://www.sos.net...
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Chandler 6 years ago
Chandler
Okay, Korashk, looks like you took this one. Congratulations.
Posted by Chandler 6 years ago
Chandler
Yeah, but my comma usage is better.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
///Here opponent has admitted that...///
Posted by Chandler 6 years ago
Chandler
"...only recently has these actions become widely accepted..."
Posted by Sorrow 6 years ago
Sorrow
Seriously Chandler? "Better spelling and grammar."? -_-
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
I apologize for the lengthy wait, I will have a response posted tommorow.
Posted by Chandler 6 years ago
Chandler
Vote Pro
Posted by Sorrow 6 years ago
Sorrow
Vote CON.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Jonathan21 6 years ago
Jonathan21
ChandlerKorashkTied
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Vote Placed by philosphical 6 years ago
philosphical
ChandlerKorashkTied
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Vote Placed by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
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Vote Placed by Sorrow 6 years ago
Sorrow
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Vote Placed by Chandler 6 years ago
Chandler
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