The Instigator
Beyoncebetwice
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
superbowl9
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Sexual harassment/sexualization/rape culture has gotten out of hand

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
superbowl9
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/16/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,456 times Debate No: 65260
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (2)

 

Beyoncebetwice

Pro

First round is just acceptance. Please do not state your opinion until the second round. Good luck! :)
superbowl9

Con

Suscipiam.
Debate Round No. 1
Beyoncebetwice

Pro

Hello :) I just want to say good luck! I am very excited to debate this subject with you! Have a good day! :-) (I meant this towards women). I will post my sources at the end of my argument.

Sexual Harassment:

Sexual harassment is unwanted sexual advances, comments, or requests. Women face harassment every single day whether it be walking to work, getting a coffee, or even just walking down the street. This issue is not just something that can be brushed aside. It causes women to fear for their safety and is a violation of a woman's rights. It is actually a felony to make comments against a woman's gender. This has gotten out of hand, as it makes it even more difficult to enforce gender equality between the sexes, especially at the workplace. It furthers rape culture (my third point) as it continues to say "It's O.K. to sexualize a woman's body." Advocates of feminism have been working to combat sexual harassment towards women. One of the main aspects has been the struggle to gain recognition of sexual harassment as violence against women. The idea that this type of behavior is okay has gotten severely out of hand as women cannot even walk down the street without having multiple encounters with men bigger than them making derogatory and demeaning sexual comments. I myself, as a 17 year old girl, have received comments and attempted advances like these from men who are more than twice my age. At 17 years old. This video is a great study of what women actually face when walking down the street. I encourage you watch it. -->
http://www.businessinsider.com...
This is what women face on a daily basis. Jessica Williams does a fabulous job talking about harassment on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Here are the links. Please watch them as well. -->
http://thedailyshow.cc.com...
http://thedailyshow.cc.com...
Sexual harassment is not inexcusable. It causes women to actually fear for their safety when doing something as simple as walking down the street. It doesn't matter whether a woman is in sweatpants and a hoodie or lingerie, she will get winks, stares, comments, and even possible advances.

Sexualization:

Sexualization of women severely damages both women and young girls' self image and mental health. It causes cognitive and mental function damage, as well as physical damage through eating disorders and self harm. Parents and schools often do nothing about the sexualization of their girls, as "boys will be boys." The sexualization of girls and women especially in the media causes girls to look down on themselves as well as each other and believe they aren't beautiful because they don't have a big butt, or they aren't as skinny as a supermodel. This kind of thinking leads to self harm as well as eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia as girls are taught to believe they aren't good enough. They are taught that women are meant to be sexy and wear clothing to draw a man's eye.

Schools have recently been enforcing stricter dress codes for girls. Many schools have banned yoga pants and leggings as they are too "sexual" and they are a "distraction" to boys. These schools will take a girl out of class and either send her home or have her parents bring new pants for her to change into. This teaches boys that it is okay to sexualize these girls because, after all, they asked for it when they wore those pants. That teaches girls that a boys education is more important than hers. It teaches people that its okay to take away from a girls education because of the pants she is wearing. It teaches boys that its okay to stare too long at a girl, to shove their friends and say "Damn she's hot," or to make sexual comments to or about her. This behavior doesn't just last in high school. It carries over in the workplace, and during rape/harassment trials, by saying "Well it was provoked, did you see what she was wearing?" Instead of blaming the clothes, blame the dirty minds. Schools and society should not be teaching girls that its their fault they receive sexual comments or that it is a compliment. Instead, our society needs to work together to teach boys respect, as the whole situation promotes rape culture and violence towards women.

Rape Culture:

I'd like to start off by really clearing up what rape culture is, as many people (including feminists), do not know what it really is. Culture, in a sociological sense, means things that connects society as a whole, or arts and manifestations of intelligence and creativity that connect communities. We all know what rape means. Its hard to connect these two words in this sense because they are so different. Our society does not outwardly support rape, like the phrase "rape culture" kind of says. We don't all take part in sexual violence as a community. Rape culture discusses something more implicit than a group of people outwardly supporting something like that. Rape culture is not the verbal support of sexual violence or harassment, but rather the practices that either engage in or just excuse those behaviors. This has reached a high as there are so many aspects of society that put a lot of focus on the sexualization of women (i.e.... Kim Kardashian "breaking" the Internet because of her bare a**). Society does not outwardly say its okay to harass women but through our actions we say women are meant to be sexual beings and it is okay to say these things to them. Things like video games, where many people believe they should be able to be "exempt from being politically correct" towards women, push the idea of rape culture because of their demeaning attitude and depiction of women. If companies producing one type of product (video games) what's to say other companies won't try the same thing? What's to say other companies won't try to say they don't want to be politically correct towards women.

Sexual harassment, female sexualization, and rape culture have gotten out of hand because even though it is 2014, women still have to fear for their safety when they walk down the street. They have to be prepared for any horny man who feels entitled to stare at her too long, or wink, or make a comment to her. Schools and parents also further this situation and make it worse by making the excuse "boys will be boys." This is not a valid argument. People shouldn't be brushing aside the gestures and comments. It just makes the gender inequality and rape culture worse.

Sources:

http://www.apa.org...
http://everydayfeminism.com...
http://www.ggenyc.org...
http://www.stopstreetharassment.org...
http://www.eeoc.gov...
http://www.un.org...

I'm very excited to hear what you have to say! Good luck! :)
superbowl9

Con

Good day to you, too.

I'd like to note that the topic and opening of this debate make no mention of gender, and thus I feel it would not be enough for me to simply show that men are being harassed just as much as women, but rather I should demonstrate the lack of a rape culture/sexual harassment, etc. As such, my BoP becomes larger than simply refuting Pro's claims, and I will thus provide evidence and arguments in favor of my position.

I'll start off by refuting your paragraphs; I'll get into each video/source (I'd like to note I took a look at all of them) below each respective paragraph refutation.

REBUTTAL

Sexual Harassment:

I agree with all your definitions in this paragraph, to get semantics out of the way. You start off your paragraph with a very bold claim that women face harassment every day. Firstly, I don't really see any concrete evidence of this. All you've really provided are a couple videos; which I'll get to later. You then move on to talk about the severity and effects of the harassment, which I will also address later.

One claim I can refute without referring to the videos, however, is that feminism has been "struggling to gain recognition of sexual harassment", which, I think, is the surface of your broader point, which is that sexual harassment and other such issues are underrepresented in the media. This I must disagree with, because if we look at how many news sites have covered exactly the same harassment video you present, we'll find:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.slate.com...
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://dailycaller.com...
http://www.usatoday.com...
http://www.bbc.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
http://www.newsweek.com...
http://hereandnow.wbur.org...

Among many others. I thought 10 was enough. This is clearly anything but underrepresented, with the video on youtube having over 36 million views. Not to mention how mainstream feminism has become in modern day. If anything these issues are viral, much like the videos presented. And with that perfect segue, let's jump right into the videos.

The first video (https://www.youtube.com...), as I'm sure you are all familiar with, has a woman walking around New York City for 10 hours and allegedly being subjected to 100 instances of sexual harassment. "Now, what kinds of sexual harassment may you find in this video?" you may ask. Well, the most common catcall in the video was actually "good morning" in some form or another.

Now, at this point, what I'm thinking is 'how can 'How are you this morning?' (yes, this is an actual quote from the video) be sexual harassment?' I don't know the answer to this question, because if it were, Pro and I would both be on the sex offender's list right now for exchanging pleasantries before beginning our arguments. Although many of the "catcalls" in the video are obviously completely benign and some not even clearly directed at her, there were some other instances where there was clearly harassment, such as when one man followed the woman for five minutes.

I have two main points against this: the first is that the person(s) who created this video were clearly trying to make a statement, and thus most likely included some of the "creepiest" or most prevalent instances of "harassment". After all, who wouldn't show the highlights of something to demonstrate a point? From this we can deduce that the worst instances of sexual harassment were most likely contained in that video, and the more minor instances were left out.

This leads us to the question of what qualifies as harassment. We can clearly see from the video that even statements as vanilla as "have a nice evening" are viewed as harassment, and thus the standard for harassment is set extremely low. We can conclude that the number of instances where this woman was actually harassed is probably less than 50% of what the video claims, but even this is unimportant.

Even if we assume that this video is 100% accurate and 100 people did catcall in 10 hours, simple math shows us that this equates to 1 catcall in every 6 minutes. Average human walking speed is about 3 miles per hour, or 0.05 miles per minute, which is about the length of a city block. It's reasonable (and a bit generous) to assume that there are around 20-50 people per New York City block that are outside, and also generous to assume that this woman encounters around 10 people every block. This means that this woman passes around 10 people a minute, which is 600 people an hour and 6,000 people in 10 hours. This means that, if there really were 100 catcalls, (which I doubt), and using my very generous numbers, we can conclude that 0.016% of people catcalled this woman. That's 1 in every 60 people, and far from what I would call a "rape culture".

Even the above statistic is far diminished and even irrelevant when you consider another key factor: economics. This may sound like a completely different subject, however it is very pertinent to the current matter. If you look beck at the video, nearly all the people harassing the woman (leaving out the "good mornings") were of low socioeconomic status, based on their speaking, mannerisms, dress, conduct, and geographical location, and race (Most are minorities and New York has one of the highest poverty rates at 14.5% [1]). This is important because in areas or communities with lower socioeconomic status, there is very often much less education, and attitudes towards education are often negative[2]. This means that these people may not know how certain ways of approaching people are inappropriate and think it only natural to engage in behaviors that mainstream society would consider harassment, simply because they do not know any better.

This can be exemplified if you simply think about how many catcalls you'd get if you walked around a very high-class, luxurious neighborhood. Much the same is true of violence and other crimes; you have a much higher chance of getting mugged or shot in Harlem than in a higher-class neighborhood, so does this mean we have a violence culture? Would you argue that these crimes are just brushed away as "everyday happenings" while they are really serious felonies?

I'll conclude this section by talking about the Comedy Central videos. The major points made are that there are many popular news anchors which say some very sexist and dumb things (these anchors are all from Fox News and one is Bill O' Riley, so that pretty much refutes itself), and a similar walking with "harassment" clip is shown, which I feel I have already said my piece on. So not much in that video, but the other video does bring up some valid points. However, all my criticisms can pretty much be summed up in one comment, and so as not to run out of characters, this is it:


Oh, and as for the last part about dress not mattering, that's false. Someone did a very nice video that proves this point[3].

Sexualization:

Again, I don't see any evidence showing that sexualization is happening in schools. However, even assuming that it was happening, I don't know of any school that would simply dismiss this harassment with no punishment. Also, much the same argument as I made earlier can be used in this scenario. Sex and sexuality are somewhat taboo topics in the U.S., and this oftentimes prevents parents, or any authority figure, from talking to their children about these types of things. This makes the sexual urges they inevitably get around middle school seem foreign to them, and since they don't really know what to do or how to please these sexual urges in socially correct ways or approach women in an amiable way, they may end up doing things that are sexually harassing. This isn't their fault or the fault of "rape culture", but rather the fault of the education system, parents, etc. for not having these types of conversations early on, which is a very sad part of our culture.

The media does not give girls the impression that they should look down upon themselves, it simply exemplifies what humans perceive as beautiful. The type of woman that most guys want to see in an ad is the type of woman depicted in the media, just like the type of male most women think is handsome will be shown on the media. This is so you can appeal sexually to a larger audience and move more product, and there are no messages saying "be like this" on T.V. It's your choice who your role model is, and nobody is teaching these girls that they have to be extremely skinny or other harmful things. In fact, more men like a more curvy figure, and this is reflected in our models.

I had some other arguments I wanted to make as well, but given the character limit I'll save those for next round.

I wish you luck in the next round, Lacey!

Sources:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org...;
2. http://www.apa.org...;
3. https://www.youtube.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
Beyoncebetwice

Pro

I apologize sincerely to my opponent as well as the voters. I know this was my debate but something has come up and I did not get the chance rebut his arguments. Again I am deeply sorry, and hopefully, when things die down, we can try this again. I encourage you vote for my opponent as he has been able to reply. I am sincerely sorry that I was not able to reply. Have a good night :)
superbowl9

Con

I regret that my opponent couldn't participate in this round, I understand and maybe we can do this again. I had some more arguments, so I'm just going to post them anyways so I can get them out there.

(Continued from where I left off the last time)

I don't really get where you're going with the clothing argument, because it can be extremely distracting to learning if you have people dressed in a very sexual way in the environment. This can cause people, naturally, to look at this person and fantasize, because they're having very natural sexual urges. This doesn't mean women are being sexualized, it means that people are attracted to their form because it's more prominent in tight or revealing clothing.

This doesn't teach boys that it's okay to rape or harass, or that it's okay to take from education, it shows that it's not okay to take away from others' educations with distracting or revealing clothing. Raping someone because she "asked for it" is not the same as seeing someone and wishing you could have sex with them. Fantasy does not equal reality. I could take your logic to the extreme and say that if a man wants to come to school nude, that should be his right, and telling him to clothe himself is just reinforcing the girls' rape fantasies about this young man, and that it's okay to take from a boy's education to satisfy the needs of women.

Rape Culture:

I don't really agree with your definition of rape culture, as what you describe has nothing to do with rape. If our culture sexually discriminates and encourages harassment, shouldn't it be called a sexual harassment culture or something? "Rape culture" is just misleading.

You go on to say that jokes about Kim Kardashian sexualize her, and this is somewhat true, in a way. The jokes about her were probably primed from some source where Kim Kardashian was sexualized. However, this was Kim's choice; it was her choice to sexualize herself and put herself out there in the mainstream media for sex appeal. This means that Kim is okay with this sort of thing and doesn't mind being sexualized; she may even enjoy it; some women do, just like some women have rape fantasies. This does not, however, mean that men automatically sexualize every woman, nor does it mean every woman is sexualized. It just means that some people choose to do that, which is fine if it's their choice.

Next, you say that video games believe they should be "exempt from being politically correct" and go on to use a slippery slope argument. Firstly, I believe that all expression, speech, and media should be allowed, even if it's not politically correct (so long as there are no victims). This is what our country is based upon, and free speech should be upheld. Even if this wasn't the case, there is very little sexism in video games. Thunderf00t has done an excellent job in debunking the main proponent of this myth, Anita Sarkeesian, in many videos, including this one [https://www.youtube.com...].

To conclude, the cases of sexual harassment, rape culture, and sexualization brought up have been shown to be simply the actions of a few people, some just, which does not reflect upon our entire society as a whole. Mainstream feminism has overplayed these types of issues and has propagated a lot of myths, however these are not credible.

Debate Round No. 3
Beyoncebetwice

Pro

Beyoncebetwice forfeited this round.
superbowl9

Con

Extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Beyoncebetwice 2 years ago
Beyoncebetwice
I apologize for my forfeit. Something came up and I was unable to respond. I encourage you vote for my opponent as I was unable to successfully debate this. Have a good Thanksgiving.
Posted by Beyoncebetwice 2 years ago
Beyoncebetwice
Lol okay emilrose! Cheyennebodie, I understand where you are coming from with needing to take rape seriously and have it proved in a court of law, but what about sexual assault? That isn't something that can proven by a medical examination. Yes some women would try to and lie about rape (I have seen it first hand) but the majority would not because it is such a serious subject. I really appreciate your contribution to the conversation, though!
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
You are most welcome! I appreciate your interest learning other viewpoints and listening to other perspectives. Likewise, I'm interested to hear yours.

Have a good day too :) I also use smileys (sometimes) :D so that's fine.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
All rapes should be met with prison terms. And false accusations of rape should be doubled.Of course these need to be proven in a court of law where emotions should not be taken seriously. Women can fake emotions better than men.
Posted by Beyoncebetwice 2 years ago
Beyoncebetwice
Are you saying rap culture needs to be bigger??
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I'm going to say what we're all thinking. Rape culture is far from being too big. In fact rape culture isn't big enough.
Posted by Beyoncebetwice 2 years ago
Beyoncebetwice
Emilrose, thank you for you input! I love to hear things from other perspectives and I'll always welcome your information! I won't say much in the comments but feel free to message me or to continue to read our debate. If you have any input, please, do continue to comment or message me! Have a good day! Good luck with any debates you are a part of. :) (sorry I do smiley faces a lot lol)
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I would have loved to debate this.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
My pleasure!

My comment there was mainly about sexualisation of culture--which primarily refers to media representation and exposure of *both* sexes. To clarify: the "sexualisation" inclusion in your title resolution applies to men and women equally.

As for sexual harassment, statistics would show that cases with women are higher but there's also no underplaying the fact that men (more than many would presume) also get harassed. The issue is that examples between men and women are viewed very differently.

Anyway, good luck in your arguments :)
Posted by Beyoncebetwice 2 years ago
Beyoncebetwice
Emilrose, I really appreciate your input! As my debate will show, the sexualization and harassment is far worse towards women than towards men. Feel free to private message me as I don't want to say all my arguments on the comments before I have a chance to argue them lol :-)
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Beyoncebetwicesuperbowl9Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
Beyoncebetwicesuperbowl9Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: sorry for pro to drop out of this, conduct to con, arguments to con as pro didn't provide any arguments that the rape culture isn't getting punished by coverage, feminism, and traditional punishment