The Instigator
Cerebral_Narcissist
Con (against)
Winning
107 Points
The Contender
DATCMOTO
Pro (for)
Losing
54 Points

Sexuality is a Choice

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/5/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,188 times Debate No: 9421
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (44)
Votes (32)

 

Cerebral_Narcissist

Con

My opponent claims that a person's sexuality, that is to say the trigger of sexual feelings is decided by deliberate choice. Decide to be gay, and you will find yourself feeling sexual desire for people of the same gender.

I have argued consistently that is utterly false. The following arguments spring to mind,

I, nor anyone else can remember a previous asexual period where we made a cold calculating deliberate choice to establish our sexuality. From what I can tell from personal experience sexual feelings arose unbidden.

My opponents argument denies the existence of homosexuals who are wracked by fear or guilt and so keep their sexuality hidden. If sexuality was a choice why would they just select one more pleasing to their friends, family, or society.

If sexuality were a choice might not certain liberally minded people chop and change on a whim, or choose permanently to be bisexual to experience as much as possible?

What of paedophiles who are able to understand that their sexuality is 'wrong' and so demand treatment, or beg not to be released at the end of their sentence. If sexuality were a choice why not simply choose one more becoming?

My opponent however is adamant that sexuality is a choice, so I look forward to his argument and rebuttal.
DATCMOTO

Pro

~"My opponent claims that a person's sexuality, that is to say the trigger of sexual feelings is decided by deliberate choice. Decide to be gay, and you will find yourself feeling sexual desire for people of the same gender."

Please reproduce IN FULL where I have EVER said that sexuality is a choice.
I NEVER have.
Homosexuality (which is a misnomer as people of the same sex cannot breed which is what sexuality refers to) is a choice.
ANY sexual act is a choice.
Sexuality (heterosexuality) is not a choice but a default setting.

Unless my opponent can show that I HAVE argued that sexuality is a choice he does not EVEN have a challenge, let alone an argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Cerebral_Narcissist

Con

I thank my opponent for accepting the challenge.

"Please reproduce IN FULL where I have EVER said that sexuality is a choice.
I NEVER have."

Well I understood that you had, and by accepting this challenge you have agreed to debate from that position.

"Homosexuality (which is a misnomer as people of the same sex cannot breed which is what sexuality refers to) is a choice."

Sexual orientation is not dependent upon reproduction.

All you have done is to reiterate without defence your position, that you are claiming that homosexual desires arise from a deliberate choice. Is this consistent with any experience, logic or facts.

"ANY sexual act is a choice"

This is irrelevant to the debate as we are not discussing acts but feelings.

"Unless my opponent can show that I HAVE argued that sexuality is a choice he does not EVEN have a challenge, let alone an argument."

No, by accepting this challenge you have agreed to argue that sexuality is a choice, it is now irrelevant whether or not you have actually argued this previously. You could have asked for the terms of the debate to be changed, but you accepted them.

In conclusion my oppoent has failed to argue for the Pro position and is in fact distancing himself from these views. Thus my opponents position is negated. Thank you.
DATCMOTO

Pro

I have never said that 'Sexuality is a choice'. My opponents gigantic failure to produce evidence to the contrary bares me out on this.

Sexuality refers to the mechanics of reproduction.
The mechanics of reproduction include desire, action and biological processes.

As members of the same sex CANNOT reproduce they cannot have a true sexuality between them.

Heterosexual acts are a choice.
Heterosexual reproduction is a choice.
Heterosexual desire is not a choice.

So I would agree with the resolution (in this context) two thirds of the time.

I wish to ask my opponent ONE question:

Does ONE single solitary 'homosexual' desire make one a 'homosexual'? for life?
Debate Round No. 2
Cerebral_Narcissist

Con

"I have never said that 'Sexuality is a choice'. My opponents gigantic failure to produce evidence to the contrary bares me out on this."

With respect my opponent chose to argue from this position when they accepted the debate challenge. It is not relevant to the debate whether or not my opponent ever argued this. They chose to argue as Pro on the issue that sexuality is a choice.

"Sexuality refers to the mechanics of reproduction.
The mechanics of reproduction include desire, action and biological processes."

Sexuality does not refer to the mechanics of reproduction.

http://www.dictionary.co.uk...

The context in which the word sexuality was being used was defined in my opening argument. This was accepted by my opponent.

"As members of the same sex CANNOT reproduce they cannot have a true sexuality between them."

This is incorrect as human sexual activity is not solely restricted to the reproductive act, for instance masturbation, oral sex, the use of contraceptives. To take my opponents statement to its logical conclusion would mean that true sexuality can not exist in pairings where one or both partners are infertile. This is clearly not the case. In any case my opponent should have attempted to clarify the terms prior to the debate. He has accepted my definition of sexuality and so this line is moot.

"Heterosexual acts are a choice."

True, but we are discussing desire.

"Heterosexual reproduction is a choice."

True to an extent.

"Heterosexual desire is not a choice."

My opponent has rejected his own position and has conceded the argument.

"So I would agree with the resolution (in this context) two thirds of the time."

The premise of the argument was 'Sexuality is a Choice'. I have taken Con, my opponent has taken Pro, if he admits that any form of sexuality is not a choice (which he has) then he has conceded the argument. I appreciate the fact that my opponent has ended up debating a position which he is unwilling to or unable to, but he had ample opportunity to ask for the terms of the debate be refined.

"I wish to ask my opponent ONE question:
Does ONE single solitary 'homosexual' desire make one a 'homosexual'? for life?"

This question has no bearing on the argument and is poor conduct as it simply part of an ongoing 'flame' from the forums. It is inappropriate there and totally unacceptable here.

In conclusion my opponent has failed to defend his position, and has actually rejected and argued against his position. I strongly urge a vote for Con.
DATCMOTO

Pro

My opponents spectacular failure to reproduce even ONE piece of evidence that I have EVER stated that 'sexuality is a choice' clearly negates the challenge itself, let alone his 'argument'.

I accepted the challenge with the sole purpose of exposing his dishonesty.

I am happy to have done so.

The question from the forums remains and will NEVER go away:

Does one become a homosexual after the very first desire for relations with a member of their own sex?

YES or NO?

How any of you vote is of absolutely ZERO interest to me.
Debate Round No. 3
44 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 7 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
You rejected your own resolution and forfeited every round. You should not get any points.
Posted by DATCMOTO 7 years ago
DATCMOTO
Considering the atheist/Christian ratio of DDO membership, I would submit that prejudice is the abiding factor.. a little like your comment 'atheist'..
Posted by Atheism 7 years ago
Atheism
Con wins, very thoroughly, might I add. I fear Datcmoto has a case of fundamentalism. Gah.
Posted by DATCMOTO 8 years ago
DATCMOTO
I'll take that as a cowardly withdrawall then!

Toodle Pip!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Not quite. It's just easily breakable.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 8 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
I fear language has broken down...
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
The cheek of the slate is clean?

That's fairly nonexhaustive.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 8 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
My slate is already clean!

The cheek of it!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
the correct response is ooh, yeah, wipe dat slate.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 8 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
You are willing to wipe my slate clean? Excuse me?

If you are so desperate to debate with me you must,
1: Apologise for the dishonesty you have shown in regards to this debate.
2: Apologise for, and retract accusations against my honesty.
3: Apologise for your terrible conduct in this debate.
4: Acknowledge that the quote now in question is a genuine one. (It is there in black and white for everyone to see so I can't understand how you can do anything else).
5: Actually state what your position is, and define your terms.

When you have done this you can issue a debate challenge.
32 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
Cerebral_NarcissistDATCMOTOTied
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Vote Placed by medic0506 6 years ago
medic0506
Cerebral_NarcissistDATCMOTOTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con loses conduct points for making an assertion to get pro to accept a challenge, then not backing it up. Pro wins because con refuses to deal with the issue of sex, by trying to keep the focus on sexual feelings.
Vote Placed by mecap 6 years ago
mecap
Cerebral_NarcissistDATCMOTOTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro just FAILED!
Vote Placed by Cobo 6 years ago
Cobo
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Vote Placed by socialpinko 6 years ago
socialpinko
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Vote Placed by Skeptic8 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by annhasle 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Atheism 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by innomen 7 years ago
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